WILL WE EVER RUN OUT OF HERETICS AND CHURCH CRITICS? I DOUBT IT.
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Yep. First it was just stop believing and you go to hell. Then it became stop believing and do something really stupid. There was one more in PHarts false gospel, but at this point I cannot remember and church is calling. Nonetheless, PHart is here to sift the wheat from the wheat and to separate the sheep from the sheep in his errant message.
please, let's be civil - and Joi's post #23, is for those whom Jesus has blessed
with a very intimate Biblical discernment/relationship with The Holy Spirit
and in the many ways He blesses each who Love and Obey, this is a daily/continual,
learning process for all of us; listening-learning how to serve and walk in His Holy Light,..
with a very intimate Biblical discernment/relationship with The Holy Spirit
and in the many ways He blesses each who Love and Obey, this is a daily/continual,
learning process for all of us; listening-learning how to serve and walk in His Holy Light,..
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• Not everyone who speaks in tongues says that those who don't do not have the Holy Spirit or is not saved. That would not be biblical way of belief.
• Sabbath keeping is a good idea. If you don't do it, it does not mean you are not saved. If you don't allow for rest, it can lead to more stress and burnout.
• I agree that trying to keep the ten commandments or going to church does not assure you of salvation. It is faith in Christ.
• Not everyone who believes in tongues believes in " holy laughter" or being " slain in the Spirit".
• Sabbath keeping is a good idea. If you don't do it, it does not mean you are not saved. If you don't allow for rest, it can lead to more stress and burnout.
• I agree that trying to keep the ten commandments or going to church does not assure you of salvation. It is faith in Christ.
• Not everyone who believes in tongues believes in " holy laughter" or being " slain in the Spirit".
Anyone that compares the sealing of the Holy Spirit to a bowl of left over lasagna that can be unsealed has no real credibility when it comes to a good biblical understanding.....and your version of eternal security is based upon PHART and what PHART does...not JESUS....that tells me all I need to know about you and your café blend non-gospel........
You mean like a Protestant speaking against the RCC? They have to be a member of the RCC to know what is really going in there before they can be qualified to criticize it?
What about Islam? Does one have to be a member of Islam and know what is taught and practiced in Islam before they are qualified to criticize it?
What about medium? Does one have to be a medium before they are qualified to criticize it?
Scripture is for every believer to prove or to expose the works of darkness with no partiality. There can be no gray area. There can be no scripture running against scripture, otherwise they are misreading His words as well as misapplying His words. There can be no lie of the truth in His words.
The loners out there that do not go to church, cannot be accused of seeking to win some to their denomenational church when they are pointing believers back to Jesus Christ, the Good News to man, and not to a church with their patented denomenational beliefs to live that reconciled relationship with God thru.
If all churches were pointing believers to look to Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd, then they are serving Him faithfully.
But as it is, the churches are testifying of themselves in seeking their own glory in how they are "better" than the other churches out there. That is not being a faithful witness of Him nor keeping the spotlight on Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Each believer's identity should be relating to Him in being witnesses of Him as His disciple as called christian, but it seems most believers are being disciples of their churches.
John 3:[SUP]30 [/SUP]He must increase, but I must decrease. ( That includes the denomenational church. If the witness cannot do that, then that is where the problem is. )
John 7:[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
1 Corinthians 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?[SUP] 4 [/SUP]For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?[SUP]6 [/SUP]I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.[SUP]7 [/SUP]So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
I find it annoying that tongue speakers nor the mods ( like CS1 ) are giving Waggles a hard time when he teaches that only a Pentecostal can lay hands on a believer for them to receive the Holy Ghost and tongues; hence salvation. That is practically him saying all non-Pentecostal out there are not saved and that is against the rule in this forum.
So I am throwing what they consider "the baby out with the bath water", because I see no baby in it at all for it cannot be of Him as no lie can be of the truth, and they would rather strive against me to defend using their tongues privately and to overlook the majority of tongue speakers in how they had received that kind of tongue for private use which was by a sign in receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation, than to correct strenuously one of their fellow tongue speaker.
Don't you find it odd that they are not striving to correct one of their own tongue speakers; but just "disagree" with Waggles? By looking at the lack of criticism within their own Pentecostal church, it should be no wonder why there are critics outside of their church's operation; just by the words they speak.
What about Islam? Does one have to be a member of Islam and know what is taught and practiced in Islam before they are qualified to criticize it?
What about medium? Does one have to be a medium before they are qualified to criticize it?
Scripture is for every believer to prove or to expose the works of darkness with no partiality. There can be no gray area. There can be no scripture running against scripture, otherwise they are misreading His words as well as misapplying His words. There can be no lie of the truth in His words.
The loners out there that do not go to church, cannot be accused of seeking to win some to their denomenational church when they are pointing believers back to Jesus Christ, the Good News to man, and not to a church with their patented denomenational beliefs to live that reconciled relationship with God thru.
If all churches were pointing believers to look to Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd, then they are serving Him faithfully.
But as it is, the churches are testifying of themselves in seeking their own glory in how they are "better" than the other churches out there. That is not being a faithful witness of Him nor keeping the spotlight on Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Each believer's identity should be relating to Him in being witnesses of Him as His disciple as called christian, but it seems most believers are being disciples of their churches.
John 3:[SUP]30 [/SUP]He must increase, but I must decrease. ( That includes the denomenational church. If the witness cannot do that, then that is where the problem is. )
John 7:[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
1 Corinthians 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?[SUP] 4 [/SUP]For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?[SUP]6 [/SUP]I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.[SUP]7 [/SUP]So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
I find it annoying that tongue speakers nor the mods ( like CS1 ) are giving Waggles a hard time when he teaches that only a Pentecostal can lay hands on a believer for them to receive the Holy Ghost and tongues; hence salvation. That is practically him saying all non-Pentecostal out there are not saved and that is against the rule in this forum.
So I am throwing what they consider "the baby out with the bath water", because I see no baby in it at all for it cannot be of Him as no lie can be of the truth, and they would rather strive against me to defend using their tongues privately and to overlook the majority of tongue speakers in how they had received that kind of tongue for private use which was by a sign in receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation, than to correct strenuously one of their fellow tongue speaker.
Don't you find it odd that they are not striving to correct one of their own tongue speakers; but just "disagree" with Waggles? By looking at the lack of criticism within their own Pentecostal church, it should be no wonder why there are critics outside of their church's operation; just by the words they speak.
P
Why is this of any value to anybody?
All you're doing is saying is you're right and I'm wrong. Big deal. What does that accomplish? And you do that in a bullying kind of way. You think you can just shout everybody down to your beliefs. This is what is wrong with the church. We have no good leaders and teachers on a church wide level.
All you're doing is saying is you're right and I'm wrong. Big deal. What does that accomplish? And you do that in a bullying kind of way. You think you can just shout everybody down to your beliefs. This is what is wrong with the church. We have no good leaders and teachers on a church wide level.
I do not understand why people say people are trying to keep themselves saved by their works,when it is not that,but allowing the Spirit to lead us.
We are saved by allowing the Spirit to lead us,for a Spirit led life is not under the law,and saved,which a Spirit led life shows no ways of the flesh,and helps the poor and needy.
That is why Jesus addressed the first Church that they have left their first love,and were fallen,and needed to repent,and do the first works,and the fifth Church that He did not find their works perfect before God,and to repent,and James said to care about the poor and needy,for faith without works is dead,and a person is saved by works,and not faith alone,because some people lack doing works of the Spirit.
And if they do not do works of the Spirit,then they lack being led of the Spirit,then they lack love because charity is greater than faith,and faith works by love,and then they lack faith,which is why Paul said they err from the faith,and James said their faith is dead,and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.
It is not trying to keep ourselves saved by our works,it is allowing the Spirit to lead us,and do the works of the Spirit,for a Spirit led life is not under the law,and saved.
The Bible does not say those that have the Spirit are not under the law,but those who are led of the Spirit are not under the law.
Those led of the Spirit will abstain from sin,and help the poor and needy,and Paul said he can have all faith so that he could remove mountains,but if he did not have charity,he is nothing.
Charity does not think an evil thought,and does not sin by the Spirit,and only goes by their needs,and not their wants,at any time,and helps the poor and needy,and is not selfish,and arrogant,and does not act unseemly,and is kind.
But we see hypocrisy among some people that say faith alone,but then they are not led of the Spirit,and lack works of the Spirit,then they are not right,for they are not led of the Spirit,but of the flesh,then they lack love,then they lack faith.
It is not trying to keep ourselves saved by our works,for they are not our works,but we are saved by being led of the Spirit,which we will do works of love,and love is greater than faith,which some lack being led of the Spirit,and lack works of love,which is why the Bible points it out for them to stop lacking works,and faith without works is dead.
To lack works is to lack being led of the Spirit,and this comes a lot in the way of them going by their wants,and neglecting the poor and needy,which we see a lot today,as they care about money,and material things,and a lot of them hold unto sin thinking they are alright,or do not care,and that is lack of being led of the Spirit.
They need to quit saying people are trying to keep themselves saved by works,for that does not even apply,but they are saved by allowing the Spirit to lead them.
But people to defend what they believe will almost say anything to try to go against people,even if it is a little bending of the truth.
A Spirit led life is not under the law,and saved,that is why we have to have works,for to lack works is to lack being led of the Spirit.
We are saved by allowing the Spirit to lead us,for a Spirit led life is not under the law,and saved,which a Spirit led life shows no ways of the flesh,and helps the poor and needy.
That is why Jesus addressed the first Church that they have left their first love,and were fallen,and needed to repent,and do the first works,and the fifth Church that He did not find their works perfect before God,and to repent,and James said to care about the poor and needy,for faith without works is dead,and a person is saved by works,and not faith alone,because some people lack doing works of the Spirit.
And if they do not do works of the Spirit,then they lack being led of the Spirit,then they lack love because charity is greater than faith,and faith works by love,and then they lack faith,which is why Paul said they err from the faith,and James said their faith is dead,and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.
It is not trying to keep ourselves saved by our works,it is allowing the Spirit to lead us,and do the works of the Spirit,for a Spirit led life is not under the law,and saved.
The Bible does not say those that have the Spirit are not under the law,but those who are led of the Spirit are not under the law.
Those led of the Spirit will abstain from sin,and help the poor and needy,and Paul said he can have all faith so that he could remove mountains,but if he did not have charity,he is nothing.
Charity does not think an evil thought,and does not sin by the Spirit,and only goes by their needs,and not their wants,at any time,and helps the poor and needy,and is not selfish,and arrogant,and does not act unseemly,and is kind.
But we see hypocrisy among some people that say faith alone,but then they are not led of the Spirit,and lack works of the Spirit,then they are not right,for they are not led of the Spirit,but of the flesh,then they lack love,then they lack faith.
It is not trying to keep ourselves saved by our works,for they are not our works,but we are saved by being led of the Spirit,which we will do works of love,and love is greater than faith,which some lack being led of the Spirit,and lack works of love,which is why the Bible points it out for them to stop lacking works,and faith without works is dead.
To lack works is to lack being led of the Spirit,and this comes a lot in the way of them going by their wants,and neglecting the poor and needy,which we see a lot today,as they care about money,and material things,and a lot of them hold unto sin thinking they are alright,or do not care,and that is lack of being led of the Spirit.
They need to quit saying people are trying to keep themselves saved by works,for that does not even apply,but they are saved by allowing the Spirit to lead them.
But people to defend what they believe will almost say anything to try to go against people,even if it is a little bending of the truth.
A Spirit led life is not under the law,and saved,that is why we have to have works,for to lack works is to lack being led of the Spirit.
It is essential that each member who is a follower of Christ reads scripture
on their own, surrenders to Christ and allows Christ to be their only denomination.
Church should be a place of information and never a place of laws and pressures
that are made to influence any members. In that sense most churches are cults.
Churches should be a place of worship for individuals and smaller groups. That
is to say fellowship. The moment hierarchy says you need to do this or follow
that and do what we say, a member should immediately leave that place. The word
of god should be internalized and not intellectualized since that is the breeding ground
of a members discontent, rightfully so. Each person is responsible for their own
journey of salvation, spirituality and holiness. If we are not willing to do that, then
we will be forever lost in a mist of unknowing. In the end we can hear what is spoken
by others or attempted force by others, we will not find our own discernment of the
message of Christ. The Bible from the first word of Genesis to the last word of
Revelation illustrates the love God has for us. Our part is that we love Him with all
our hearts and our neighbor as ourselves. In the end, if we don't have love then we
have nothing at all.
on their own, surrenders to Christ and allows Christ to be their only denomination.
Church should be a place of information and never a place of laws and pressures
that are made to influence any members. In that sense most churches are cults.
Churches should be a place of worship for individuals and smaller groups. That
is to say fellowship. The moment hierarchy says you need to do this or follow
that and do what we say, a member should immediately leave that place. The word
of god should be internalized and not intellectualized since that is the breeding ground
of a members discontent, rightfully so. Each person is responsible for their own
journey of salvation, spirituality and holiness. If we are not willing to do that, then
we will be forever lost in a mist of unknowing. In the end we can hear what is spoken
by others or attempted force by others, we will not find our own discernment of the
message of Christ. The Bible from the first word of Genesis to the last word of
Revelation illustrates the love God has for us. Our part is that we love Him with all
our hearts and our neighbor as ourselves. In the end, if we don't have love then we
have nothing at all.
And yet not every tongue speaker gives Waggles a hard time for teaching that non-Pentecostals can receive the Holy Ghost and tongues from the laying on of hands by a Pentecostal, thus implying they do not have the Holy Spirit & thus not saved.
Per the OP, it is the lack of criticism within the body of Pentecostals & other tongue speakers that incites a total rejection for using tongues privately as we would have just cause to do that.
A non-Sabbath keeper christian taking Sunday off would be accomplishing the same thing, but yes, I agree there are physical consequences for not taking a day of rest sometime during the week for those that are forced to work the weekends
Good to hear, but I point out that those who fall away from the faith and engage in works of iniquity that deny Him, they will be denied by Him at the pre trib rapture event, but even if they do not believe any more; He still abides in them that He will get that lost wayward sheep left behind to be received as a vessel unto dishonor in His House for He will lose none of all the father has given Him for why they are still in His House.
And yet it is after the same rudiment by which those wild encounters come.. seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign... only you seem to draw the line with only the second encounter. Problem is, when other believers experienced the other "blessings" after the second blessing, there is no way for you to reprove them nor stop others from chasing after them. You gave an inch to get tongues as a sign; tongues that never comes with interpretation and so assumed to be for private use, which to any other seekers of signs is just as confusing as all those other signs of confusion are in those wild encounters.
No good tree will produce an evil fruit and no evil tree will produce a good fruit. Jesus said that.
Matthew 7:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?[SUP] 17 [/SUP]Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.[SUP] 18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
I apply that by Him in proving that there is no receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation and that believers are failing in testing the spirits when the Holy Spirit has been in them since they had come to and believed in Jesus Christ.
In fact this kind of extra calling can be found in the Catholic Charismatic Churches should expose such extra calling as a false prophet, gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles; ecumenical in Biblical nature... as from a false prophet.
So I believe the real God's gift of tongues is foreign languages to speak unto the people as manifested by the Holy Spirit and that is why it will come with interpretation when manifested in the assembly... otherwise it is not His gift of tongues, but of the supernatural ones as used in the world before Pentecost and still is being used as vain & profane babbling nonsense.
God would have us prove all things and to abstain from all appearances of evil and we cannot do that if we can really use tongues for private use that would be hard to discern from the supernatural tongue of nonsense as found in the world. That is why tongue speakers are reading His words wrong and applying His words wrong for using tongues privately, all the while ignoring the majority of tongue speakers in how they gained that kind of tongues by that extra calling; which is apostasy.
Per the OP, it is the lack of criticism within the body of Pentecostals & other tongue speakers that incites a total rejection for using tongues privately as we would have just cause to do that.
A non-Sabbath keeper christian taking Sunday off would be accomplishing the same thing, but yes, I agree there are physical consequences for not taking a day of rest sometime during the week for those that are forced to work the weekends
Good to hear, but I point out that those who fall away from the faith and engage in works of iniquity that deny Him, they will be denied by Him at the pre trib rapture event, but even if they do not believe any more; He still abides in them that He will get that lost wayward sheep left behind to be received as a vessel unto dishonor in His House for He will lose none of all the father has given Him for why they are still in His House.
And yet it is after the same rudiment by which those wild encounters come.. seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign... only you seem to draw the line with only the second encounter. Problem is, when other believers experienced the other "blessings" after the second blessing, there is no way for you to reprove them nor stop others from chasing after them. You gave an inch to get tongues as a sign; tongues that never comes with interpretation and so assumed to be for private use, which to any other seekers of signs is just as confusing as all those other signs of confusion are in those wild encounters.
No good tree will produce an evil fruit and no evil tree will produce a good fruit. Jesus said that.
Matthew 7:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?[SUP] 17 [/SUP]Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.[SUP] 18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
I apply that by Him in proving that there is no receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation and that believers are failing in testing the spirits when the Holy Spirit has been in them since they had come to and believed in Jesus Christ.
In fact this kind of extra calling can be found in the Catholic Charismatic Churches should expose such extra calling as a false prophet, gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles; ecumenical in Biblical nature... as from a false prophet.
So I believe the real God's gift of tongues is foreign languages to speak unto the people as manifested by the Holy Spirit and that is why it will come with interpretation when manifested in the assembly... otherwise it is not His gift of tongues, but of the supernatural ones as used in the world before Pentecost and still is being used as vain & profane babbling nonsense.
God would have us prove all things and to abstain from all appearances of evil and we cannot do that if we can really use tongues for private use that would be hard to discern from the supernatural tongue of nonsense as found in the world. That is why tongue speakers are reading His words wrong and applying His words wrong for using tongues privately, all the while ignoring the majority of tongue speakers in how they gained that kind of tongues by that extra calling; which is apostasy.
Everybody is right in their own eyes. That is why there is over 500+ different versions of Christianity today. Everyone saying they are the chosen of God following the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God. Pointing all to the word of website over the Word of God. The mainstream preachers in the days of Jesus taught others that he was a heretic, so did the Mother Church when they persecuted the beginning of Protestantism when Protestantism was real.
If they have called the master of the house of the devil; how much more will they call them of the household a cult? There is nothing new under the sun. Woe unto you! for you build the graves of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
Let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. Only God's Word is true and this is were we should point all to find him who loves all because it is the Word of God that will judge all of us in the last days and it is only through God's Word anyone can find the one who loves all.
Who should we believe the Word of God or the teachings and traditions of mainstream preachers that break the commandments of God? Sin is the transgression of God's Law. He that says I know him and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.
If they have called the master of the house of the devil; how much more will they call them of the household a cult? There is nothing new under the sun. Woe unto you! for you build the graves of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
Let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. Only God's Word is true and this is were we should point all to find him who loves all because it is the Word of God that will judge all of us in the last days and it is only through God's Word anyone can find the one who loves all.
Who should we believe the Word of God or the teachings and traditions of mainstream preachers that break the commandments of God? Sin is the transgression of God's Law. He that says I know him and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.
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