Woman should not teach or assume authority over men (applies to secular????)

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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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There is no conflict, none.There is no absolute in that verse, Phil, nor any other verse in the bible, women can teach men, women can have authority over men, if God so chooses. God can do whatever He wants, phil, and, does, just as I've repeatedly referenced Isaiah 55 and God's thoughts not our thoughts nor God's ways our ways and 1 Corinthians 2, we do not know 'God's mind.' Again, you can think Scripture is saying to you that women are not to ever pastor or teach men, but, ultimately, you do not know what God is doing to accomplsh His glory.
He most certainly can use a woman to lead and she can lead men, too, if God so chooses. And, what's more, He has chosen women to lead, the proof is in the women leading in 100s of churches today, and, God is leading them to be fruitful as they follow Him. God is using these women who have obediently offered themselves to God for His work and this how He has answered them. What's you or me to say how God uses them, brother? Support them,they are in the ministry doing the Lord's work. :)
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
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I am sure He is glad to have your permission for that.
God does what He wants. Man and woman have different responsibilities and God made each for their own task. Our minds and bodies are different. Men are paternal and women are maternal. A mother has to nuture, be soft, kind, and loving. A man is harder, less forgiving, easier to anger, better equipped by God, to handle that more physical, aggressive task of providing and disciplining. Women aren't warriors. Men do not have the natural gift of nuturing of a mother.

God made us that way, and gave us instructions on how to conduct ourselves and fulfill those roles. You are wilfully blinded.
And you have this right to state others are blinded because you are perfect and have all correct in what way you believe? And others that say what they see are wrong, I think not Phil, do we not all have the right to see differently yet together with the common denominator Christ
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


 
C

CHRISTENE

Guest
Proverb 31:26

26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.


Woman can be a source of Godly wisdom and can be a vessel in the hands of God to deliver faithful instructions to the needy, after all God made woman to be suitable helper for a man.
 
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phil112

Guest
And you have this right to state others are blinded because you are perfect and have all correct in what way you believe? And others that say what they see are wrong, I think not Phil, do we not all have the right to see differently yet together with the common denominator Christ
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


Tell ya what, being as this is a bible forum, use the bible and point out what I said was wrong.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
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Tell ya what, being as this is a bible forum, use the bible and point out what I said was wrong.
Originally Posted by GreenNnice


There is no conflict, none.There is no absolute in that verse, Phil, nor any other verse in the bible, women can teach men, women can have authority over men, if God so chooses. God can do whatever He wants,
I am sure He is glad to have your permission for that.
God does what He wants. Man and woman have different responsibilities and God made each for their own task. Our minds and bodies are different. Men are paternal and women are maternal. A mother has to nuture, be soft, kind, and loving. A man is harder, less forgiving, easier to anger, better equipped by God, to handle that more physical, aggressive task of providing and disciplining. Women aren't warriors. Men do not have the natural gift of nuturing of a mother.

God made us that way, and gave us instructions on how to conduct ourselves and fulfill those roles. You are wilfully blinded.
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not
Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
 
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phil112

Guest
Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
..................Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? [SUP] [/SUP]Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
[SUP] [/SUP]If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
Indeed. For the measure that you judge others will be measured back to you,


New International Version
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
..................Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
Romans 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
[h=3]Romans 2:15-17
[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) [SUP]16 [/SUP]in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
Romans 3:4

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Romans 14:3

Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Romans 14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.


What you have posted is not time for that yet and here is good post from another about women and men today:
“There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage, and then was a widow until she was eighty four. She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.” Luke 2: 36-38

Here we have New Testament biblical evidence of a female prophet.
“He (Apollos) began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.” Acts 18: 26
“Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus. They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them.” Romans 16: 3-4
Right here in the text again, as plain as day, Priscilla taught and instructed Apollos in the ways of the Lord. Paul also says right out front that Priscilla was his fellow worker in Christ Jesus. The scriptural evidence points to this fact…Priscilla was a pastor/teacher. I have also read somewhere that Priscilla might perhaps be the author of the book of Hebrews.
“Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.” Romans 16: 7
Right there in black and white is Junia…yes a female apostle. Paul was in prison for sharing the Gospel and it is likely that Junia was there with him for the same reason.
To me it is extremely clear that God gifts, places and uses women to serve and lead in His Church. This truth is confirmed both in scripture and also in my 35 years of serving Jesus in totally free and open, Spirit led, relational fellowships. To me, if you deny women their God -given right to total equality in the Church, even in regards to that thing some call leadership… you sin against not only women, but also The Lord Himself. Any hierarchy in the Church is wrong and sinful, including the one that always places men over women.
“You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Galatians 3: 26-28
In Christ we are now all one. This means we no longer are to be divided by nationality, working or social class, gender or anything else. To say one group is superior than another goes directly against our oneness in Him. In Christ we are all equals and Jesus can use ANY one of us to lead whenever He desires. Why disqualify 50% of the Body from service? Because men only ministry is the tradition of most of the “church”. It is one of the traditions that nullifies the Word and cripples the Body. I strongly believe in following those who follow the Lord, even if that person is a woman. I thank God for female leaders in my life. I would not be who I am in Christ without them.









 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
Indeed. For the measure that you judge others will be measured back to you,


New International Version
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Thanks Greennice

Ezekiel 35:11 therefore, as I live, saith the Lord God, I will even do according to thine anger, and according to thine envy which thou hast used out of thy hatred against them; and I will make myself known among them, when I have judged thee.
 
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phil112

Guest
You people simply are ignorant of what the bible tells you on a lot of things. You think we aren't supposed to notice error? You think we are supposed to shut up when false doctrine is preached? The judgement we are not supposed to make is the one of eternal destination. That decision lies only with Christ. You don't know the bible! By your views, I would be sinning by serving jury duty. Which I have done, more than once, by the way.
Oops, there I go, "judging" again.:rolleyes:


Here it is, in a nutshell.

Let’s See What the Bible Really Says About Judging:
  • "The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa 37:30)
  • "With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth." (Psa 119:13)
  • "Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy." (Prov 31:9)
  • Jesus commended Simon, "Thou hast rightly judged." (Luke 7:43)
  • "Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt show her all her abominations." (Ezek 22:2)
  • "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." (1 Cor 2:15)
  • "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" (1 Cor 6:2)
  • "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" (1 Cor 6:3)
There are many other passages and verses in the Bible about judging. While God is our ultimate Judge of all things, He has also commanded us to judge according to the Word of God.

According to the Webster’s Dictionary, to judge means "to discern, to distinguish, to form an opinion, to compare facts or ideas, and perceive their agreement or disagreement, and thus to distinguish truth from falsehood." Therefore, when you say that your neighbor is a "good person," you are passing a judgment (forming an opinion) just as much as when you say that the thief is a "bad person." A judgment simply means to form an opinion!

If there were no judgment...

  • All the prisons would be empty and thieves, serial killers, drug dealers, rapists, and murderers would be loose in your neighborhood.
  • You could not discipline your children and teach them not to steal, lie, do drugs, or give in to peer pressure.
  • School could not be mandated (by parents or the government) but if children did attend, they could not be evaluated as to their progress. Everyone should graduate regardless of their advance. Students could not be graded or disciplined.
  • You could not judge any false doctrine and would have to allow it to be taught from your church’s pulpit ("discerning" is the same thing as "judging").
  • You should leave your children with anyone who said was qualified to be a baby-sitter. You should not bother to check his/her background. Later, you should not be upset if this baby-sitter turned out to be a child-molester, because "thou shalt not judge."
  • You should marry anyone that asked. You shouldn’t worry about his/her character or beliefs. What if he beats you up? What if she cheats on you? You shouldn’t get so mad because "thou shalt not judge."
Hopefully you can see the perils of such doctrine by now. The devil has been successful to push the church further and further into a corner, while everyone else comes out of the closet with their sins. The church is "not to judge them," while Christ's body is being judged by the world. Our belief that Jesus is the only way to Heaven (John 14:6) automatically makes us "intolerant" and some Christians have backed away from declaring these truths from the Scriptures. The Webster's Dictionary definition given above says that to judge is to "distinguish truth from falsehood."
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
You people simply are ignorant of what the bible tells you on a lot of things. You think we aren't supposed to notice error? You think we are supposed to shut up when false doctrine is preached? The judgement we are not supposed to make is the one of eternal destination. That decision lies only with Christ. You don't know the bible! By your views, I would be sinning by serving jury duty. Which I have done, more than once, by the way.
Oops, there I go, "judging" again.:rolleyes:


Here it is, in a nutshell.

Let’s See What the Bible Really Says About Judging:
  • "The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa 37:30)
  • "With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth." (Psa 119:13)
  • "Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy." (Prov 31:9)
  • Jesus commended Simon, "Thou hast rightly judged." (Luke 7:43)
  • "Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt show her all her abominations." (Ezek 22:2)
  • "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." (1 Cor 2:15)
  • "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" (1 Cor 6:2)
  • "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" (1 Cor 6:3)
There are many other passages and verses in the Bible about judging. While God is our ultimate Judge of all things, He has also commanded us to judge according to the Word of God.

According to the Webster’s Dictionary, to judge means "to discern, to distinguish, to form an opinion, to compare facts or ideas, and perceive their agreement or disagreement, and thus to distinguish truth from falsehood." Therefore, when you say that your neighbor is a "good person," you are passing a judgment (forming an opinion) just as much as when you say that the thief is a "bad person." A judgment simply means to form an opinion!

If there were no judgment...

  • All the prisons would be empty and thieves, serial killers, drug dealers, rapists, and murderers would be loose in your neighborhood.
  • You could not discipline your children and teach them not to steal, lie, do drugs, or give in to peer pressure.
  • School could not be mandated (by parents or the government) but if children did attend, they could not be evaluated as to their progress. Everyone should graduate regardless of their advance. Students could not be graded or disciplined.
  • You could not judge any false doctrine and would have to allow it to be taught from your church’s pulpit ("discerning" is the same thing as "judging").
  • You should leave your children with anyone who said was qualified to be a baby-sitter. You should not bother to check his/her background. Later, you should not be upset if this baby-sitter turned out to be a child-molester, because "thou shalt not judge."
  • You should marry anyone that asked. You shouldn’t worry about his/her character or beliefs. What if he beats you up? What if she cheats on you? You shouldn’t get so mad because "thou shalt not judge."
Hopefully you can see the perils of such doctrine by now. The devil has been successful to push the church further and further into a corner, while everyone else comes out of the closet with their sins. The church is "not to judge them," while Christ's body is being judged by the world. Our belief that Jesus is the only way to Heaven (John 14:6) automatically makes us "intolerant" and some Christians have backed away from declaring these truths from the Scriptures. The Webster's Dictionary definition given above says that to judge is to "distinguish truth from falsehood."
The judgment to:
Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
[h=3]Matthew 10:20[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you

This is what is truth and you do as you please it is no sweat off of me, But please make sure you are righteously judging, since God is the only one righteous ever, we are just participators and nothing more are we not?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
You people simply are ignorant of what the bible tells you on a lot of things. You think we aren't supposed to notice error? You think we are supposed to shut up when false doctrine is preached? The judgement we are not supposed to make is the one of eternal destination. That decision lies only with Christ. You don't know the bible! By your views, I would be sinning by serving jury duty. Which I have done, more than once, by the way.
Oops, there I go, "judging" again.:rolleyes:


Here it is, in a nutshell.

Let’s See What the Bible Really Says About Judging:
  • "The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa 37:30)
  • "With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth." (Psa 119:13)
  • "Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy." (Prov 31:9)
  • Jesus commended Simon, "Thou hast rightly judged." (Luke 7:43)
  • "Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt show her all her abominations." (Ezek 22:2)
  • "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." (1 Cor 2:15)
  • "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" (1 Cor 6:2)
  • "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" (1 Cor 6:3)
There are many other passages and verses in the Bible about judging. While God is our ultimate Judge of all things, He has also commanded us to judge according to the Word of God.

According to the Webster’s Dictionary, to judge means "to discern, to distinguish, to form an opinion, to compare facts or ideas, and perceive their agreement or disagreement, and thus to distinguish truth from falsehood." Therefore, when you say that your neighbor is a "good person," you are passing a judgment (forming an opinion) just as much as when you say that the thief is a "bad person." A judgment simply means to form an opinion!

If there were no judgment...

  • All the prisons would be empty and thieves, serial killers, drug dealers, rapists, and murderers would be loose in your neighborhood.
  • You could not discipline your children and teach them not to steal, lie, do drugs, or give in to peer pressure.
  • School could not be mandated (by parents or the government) but if children did attend, they could not be evaluated as to their progress. Everyone should graduate regardless of their advance. Students could not be graded or disciplined.
  • You could not judge any false doctrine and would have to allow it to be taught from your church’s pulpit ("discerning" is the same thing as "judging").
  • You should leave your children with anyone who said was qualified to be a baby-sitter. You should not bother to check his/her background. Later, you should not be upset if this baby-sitter turned out to be a child-molester, because "thou shalt not judge."
  • You should marry anyone that asked. You shouldn’t worry about his/her character or beliefs. What if he beats you up? What if she cheats on you? You shouldn’t get so mad because "thou shalt not judge."
Hopefully you can see the perils of such doctrine by now. The devil has been successful to push the church further and further into a corner, while everyone else comes out of the closet with their sins. The church is "not to judge them," while Christ's body is being judged by the world. Our belief that Jesus is the only way to Heaven (John 14:6) automatically makes us "intolerant" and some Christians have backed away from declaring these truths from the Scriptures. The Webster's Dictionary definition given above says that to judge is to "distinguish truth from falsehood."
Oh and thanks for this righteous judgment that we are just simply ignorant. When were you put in charge?
 
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phil112

Guest
Oh and thanks for this righteous judgment that we are just simply ignorant. When were you put in charge?
You illustrate my point perfectly. I use the bible to measure your words with, and that makes me judgemental. Why, yes, it does, just like the kind of judging we as believers are to do. IF you truly believe in God, you too, like me, are "in charge" of rebutting false doctrine.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
You illustrate my point perfectly. I use the bible to measure your words with, and that makes me judgemental. Why, yes, it does, just like the kind of judging we as believers are to do. IF you truly believe in God, you too, like me, are "in charge" of rebutting false doctrine.

Yes I am, but not to condemnation of others, being wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove, truth or error?
I am not judging you, for we all will stand at the Judgment seat
So no matter I trust God to straighten me out:
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

So let us both just give this to God and trust God to do any straightening up on this, non eternal issue okay?
 
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phil112

Guest
..........................So let us both just give this to God and trust God to do any straightening up on this, non eternal issue okay?
Non-eternal issue? May I remind you that twisting scripture IS an eternal issue. God gave us His truth, which you seem to think it is no big deal to,(to be kind) mis-interpret. You need to spend a lot more time on understanding judgement as God has directed us to do. It is all in His word, and it is all real.

speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
Non-eternal issue? May I remind you that twisting scripture IS an eternal issue. God gave us His truth, which you seem to think it is no big deal to,(to be kind) mis-interpret. You need to spend a lot more time on understanding judgement as God has directed us to do. It is all in His word, and it is all real.
Listen to how silly you sound, phil ??????? God did not put any 10 commandments on person going to death for bcoming a woman pastor or for those who want to believe in the 'Law of Christ' for following Him in their lives as the Holy Spirit leads.

And, if they get it wrong ? That is , they get that they are a woman and that the road's a little rougher than a thought following God's will being a pastor.

What? Did God go and say 'He would LEAVE US and FORSAKE US, phil?

Again, WHO stopped and made you God ? God can do whatever He wants and even IF a woman makes a non-biblical choice to become a pastor--and, I've proven that 1 Tim. 2:11-12 says they are to BE QUIET when listening to 'a man' speak, it has NOTHING to do with women becoming pastors in Paul's eyes,they are just to SUBMIT when be being spoken to :) --THEN , God is STILL going to provide for them and use them and He has. Look out there at churches across the country. 100s of women are pastors of churches, and, even MORE Sunday school teachers, I can only imagine who are pastoring men. And, God is in control and He is using them all, to His glory, as they have FELT led in their life to follow Him :) .

OK, so a "bishop" or 'overseer" or, pastor is to be 'husband of one wife.' That's ALL Paul says about that, Paul does not go on to say that a woman will burn in hell for having become a pastor. God CAN and does use women to pastor and that was an extreme example right there because you don't seem to grasp any other conversation I've given, and, so, one more time, I AM teaching you from Him and asking you again, too: Do NOT play God, do not THINK you can out-think God on what gender can ONLY be deemed worthy of being pastor....

Women CAN be pastor too, when they are CALLED :)
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
372
83
Look out there at churches across the country. 100s of women are pastors of churches, and, even MORE Sunday school teachers, I can only imagine who are pastoring men. And, God is in control and He is using them all, to His glory, as they have FELT led in their life to follow Him :) .

OK, so a "bishop" or 'overseer" or, pastor is to be 'husband of one wife.' That's ALL Paul says about that, Paul does not go on to say that a woman will burn in hell for having become a pastor. God CAN and does use women to pastor and that was an extreme example right there because you don't seem to grasp any other conversation I've given, and, so, one more time, I AM teaching you from Him and asking you again, too: Do NOT play God, do not THINK you can out-think God on what gender can ONLY be deemed worthy of being pastor....

Women CAN be pastor too, when they are CALLED :)
Once again, you have gone off thread to muddy the waters. The subject is "Women should not teach or assume authority over men." It is not whether women can be pastors because the fact is you can teach without being a pastor. In actual fact, if you have a teaching ministry, it is very likely you are not a pastor.
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
Once again, you have gone off thread to muddy the waters. The subject is "Women should not teach or assume authority over men." It is not whether women can be pastors because the fact is you can teach without being a pastor. In actual fact, if you have a teaching ministry, it is very likely you are not a pastor.
Sorry.
----------------------
They can teach or assume authority over men. That verse is simply speaking of a specific situation where a man is teaching something to a woman and she is to LEARN in fully submission and SHE IS TO BE QUIET.

Are we back on topic now :)
 
May 18, 2010
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I think the bible is already clear, the reason for confusion is society through the eyes of today. Contextually even,.. no need to continue I think you know, or you would if you just read it for what it says. It even gives an example of why it's not permitted, but where in your mind does that go?