Women Keep Silent (Please Don't Derail)

[KJV1611]

This post has nothing to do with whether a woman can teach or preach in a church, there was another thread on this already and this is not intended to be a repeat of that.

There is something beautiful and very profound in in the passage below. The husband is Christ, the woman is the church member. If a woman (church member) is to learn anything, she should ask her husband (Christ) at home.

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

What is God telling us here? He is telling us that we can never understand the deeper things of God by someone else telling us about it. We have to get out our bibles and let Jesus teach us. If you are continually running to the internet to see what Dr. so and so says about a doctrine, then you're doing it wrong and you will never understand the deeper things of God.

I'm not saying that one should not go to church and hear good preaching... that has it's place. But if you want to go deeper with the Lord, then ask your husband Jesus.

 

[oldhermit]

So, apart from the prohibition of woman preaching or teaching in the Church, what do you feel this text is telling us?

 

[KJV1611]

So, apart from the prohibition of woman preaching or teaching in the Church, what do you feel this text is telling us?

It's not what I feel he is telling us oldhermit, it is what he is telling us. I will substitute words and maybe you can see it.

1Co 14:35 And if a believer will learn any thing, let the believer ask Christ at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Gjolll]

It's not what I feel he is telling us oldhermit, it is what he is telling us. I will substitute words and maybe you can see it.

1Co 14:35 And if a believer will learn any thing, let the believer ask Christ at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Strange. God is to be petitioned "in Jesus' name." Not directly to Christ, whose throne is one of judgement. Christ is not the "husband" of anyone. Only metaphorically is he the husband of the whole church, in respect that it belongs to him.


1Co 14:34 is based on the idea that a wife is her husband's property (and vice versa). It contravenes the divine order for women to speak in the assembly (see also 1 Cor 11).

The key to understanding the New Testament is to understand that the divine order of creation, and in heaven, is perfectly preserved and never to be violated.

 

[Ugly]

It's not what I feel he is telling us oldhermit, it is what he is telling us. I will substitute words and maybe you can see it.

1Co 14:35 And if a believer will learn any thing, let the believer ask Christ at home: for it is a shame for a believer to speak in the church. ?

And if what you're saying is right, then how do you explain the bold part that follow? You can't leave that part out to make it suit your version of what it means.

 

[SpiritofFire]

And if what you're saying is right, then how do you explain the bold part that follow? You can't leave that part out to make it suit your version of what it means.

He is correct, just haven't explained it fully. Not so much a believer but the spirit or wisdom of that believer.

In other words if I believe eating pork is a sin (wisdom given to me) and among the congregation I run into one who believes that eating pork is not a sin (wisdom given to him), should we argue about it? No. Both women should keep silent in love and learn at home (within there own selves).

 

[KJV1611]

Strange. God is to be petitioned "in Jesus' name." Not directly to Christ, whose throne is one of judgement. Christ is not the "husband" of anyone. Only metaphorically is he the husband of the whole church, in respect that it belongs to him.


11Co 14:34 is based on the idea that a wife is her husband's property (and vice versa). It contravenes the divine order for women to speak in the assembly (see also 1 Cor 11).

No Gjoll, Jesus is the husband and the church is his wife. This is not metaphorical. This is exactly what my post is about. I being a christian am the woman. I can't teach you anything about the deeper things of the Lord. You have to get alone with your husband, the Lord, and let him show you that what I say is true. I can never convince you, only God can prove it to you through his word.

Spend some time with the word and let Jesus teach you about the woman and her husband. If you're not understanding this, then you're missing a whole lot.

 

[KJV1611]

And if what you're saying is right, then how do you explain the bold part that follow? You can't leave that part out to make it suit your version of what it means.

I agree with you. I left it out on purpose because I was trying to show how we are to learn from the Lord and not other believers. The pastor has full biblical authority over the church and he is the instrument God uses to speak to his people... not the church members.

 

[KJV1611]

He is correct, just haven't explained it fully. Not so much a believer but the spirit or wisdom of that believer.

In other words if I believe eating pork is a sin (wisdom given to me) and among the congregation I run into one who believes that eating pork is not a sin (wisdom given to him), should we argue about it? No. Both women should keep silent in love and learn at home (within there own selves).

Amen SpiritofFire! You nailed it. Let every man be persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

[starfield]

This post has nothing to do with whether a woman can teach or preach in a church, there was another thread on this already and this is not intended to be a repeat of that.

There is something beautiful and very profound in in the passage below. The husband is Christ, the woman is the church member. If a woman (church member) is to learn anything, she should ask her husband (Christ) at home.

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

What is God telling us here? He is telling us that we can never understand the deeper things of God by someone else telling us about it. We have to get out our bibles and let Jesus teach us. If you are continually running to the internet to see what Dr. so and so says about a doctrine, then you're doing it wrong and you will never understand the deeper things of God.

I'm not saying that one should not go to church and hear good preaching... that has it's place. But if you want to go deeper with the Lord, then ask your husband Jesus.

That's a stretch. The context does not permit for such interpretation.

 

[oldhermit]

It's not what I feel he is telling us oldhermit, it is what he is telling us. I will substitute words and maybe you can see it.

1Co 14:35 And if a believer will learn any thing, let the believer ask Christ at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

This will not work. This is not what the Holy Spirit said through Paul. You cannot change that language of the text simply because the change appeals to you. There is a reason why the Holy Spirit said it just the way he did.

 

[Agricola]

ANother thing people fail to understand, is that the early church continued to observe many Jewish temple practices, mainly brokered in order to keep peace with the Pharisees, which included the rules about women speaking out of turn etc.

KJV1611 is making a mistake by associating a letter to the church at Corinth giving them instructions as to how to behave, and confusing it with the parables which Jesus taught. Yes Jesus taught about church being the bride etc, but the letter to the church at Corinth is nothing more than letter on behaviour, not the metaphorical image which Christ gives.

Call a spade a spade and not a spoon. Do not try to be clever in making out passages mean more than they do, which is what King James Onlyists have a habbit of doing, along with others.

 

[KJV1611]

Ok guys, I thought it was a given that Jesus is the husband and the church is the woman... Do you guys not believe that?

 

[homwardbound]

The Corinthian letter was and is about the taking advantage of the gift of God
They were told by Paul they are forgiven even if they sin, God has past tense through Son forgiven them.
So they got the idea through the Spiritual warfare in high places that since they are forgiven they could just do whatever they chose to do, I mean wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you are forgiven.
So what did they do, they took advantage and ate up all the food and drank all the wine, had no consideration for their neighbors, did and took whatever they wanted, against others free wills.
So Paul wrote 1 Cor. to them to see for them and us to see the error of their and our ways in taking advantage of such an amazing gift from God to them through Son Christ.
So when one is still carnal and in need of the Spirit of God (LOVE) then one need be put back under Law to lead them to the need for the Savior, Jesus Christ
And they got it, they understood what Paul said and in 2 Cor. 7 it shows their repentance, change of mind as to be thankful for this 100% forgiveness and in response trust God to love through them, considering neighbor as self and even deeper a perfect God took upon self the sins of all. Seeing now it was to give them new life in the Spirit at the resurrected Christ in the Spirit where God can only be served by and worshipped by in the Spirit as John 4:23-24 states
praying the eyes and ears are opened to the amazing wonderful truth of God that sets us free in God through Son
So being past from a worldly sorrow to a Godly sorrow, how amazing

 

[Gjolll]

No Gjoll, Jesus is the husband and the church is his wife. This is not metaphorical. This is exactly what my post is about. I being a christian am the woman. I can't teach you anything about the deeper things of the Lord. You have to get alone with your husband, the Lord, and let him show you that what I say is true. I can never convince you, only God can prove it to you through his word.

The correct term is "head" not husband. As Paul says in 1 Cor 11, Christ is the "head of the man" and "man is the head of the woman."

Husband and wife denote persons that are "one in flesh". Being "one in flesh" is a metaphor, or type, of being "one in spirit." Christ is the husband of the church, by metaphor, or by type, but it is the whole church that is his bride. We are not "married to Christ" but "united to him" in faith and spirit. Marriage is a metaphor. There is no "marital" relation between Christ and humans.

 

[KJV1611]

Man, you guys have a lot to learn... Maybe this will help a bit. A persons soul in the bible is referred to as a female.

Psa 34:2 My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.

When we are crucified with Christ, the soul becomes a widow. Apply that to this:

Rom_7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

 

[KJV1611]

Man, you guys have a lot to learn... Maybe this will help a bit. A persons soul in the bible is referred to as a female.

Psa 34:2 My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.

When we are crucified with Christ, the soul becomes a widow. Apply that to this:

Rom_7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

This is not metaphoric, the soul is a woman. God is teaching you how understand other parts of the bible like Romans 7:2 and about 5000 other places.

 

[The_highwayman]

This post has nothing to do with whether a woman can teach or preach in a church, there was another thread on this already and this is not intended to be a repeat of that.

There is something beautiful and very profound in in the passage below. The husband is Christ, the woman is the church member. If a woman (church member) is to learn anything, she should ask her husband (Christ) at home.

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

What is God telling us here? He is telling us that we can never understand the deeper things of God by someone else telling us about it. We have to get out our bibles and let Jesus teach us. If you are continually running to the internet to see what Dr. so and so says about a doctrine, then you're doing it wrong and you will never understand the deeper things of God.

I'm not saying that one should not go to church and hear good preaching... that has it's place. But if you want to go deeper with the Lord, then ask your husband Jesus.

Rule 1 of proper Bible hermeneutics is to stay away from any form of allegory. Sorry buddy, but this is plain allegory and nothing else and misses the mark of what the passage is telling us completely!

 

[KJV1611]

Rule 1 of proper Bible hermeneutics is to stay away from any form of allegory. Sorry buddy, but this is plain allegory and nothing else and misses the mark of what the passage is telling us completely!

What verse or verses do you base rule number 1 on ?

 

[Praus]

Strange. God is to be petitioned "in Jesus' name." Not directly to Christ, whose throne is one of judgement. Christ is not the "husband" of anyone. Only metaphorically is he the husband of the whole church, in respect that it belongs to him.

You believe that the direct and specific instructions of Jesus Christ are "strange"?

John 14:13-14 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].


Of course, one can pray directly to Jesus Christ as well.

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.