You Will Know Them By Their Fruits.
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No, they weren't. It wasn't until Augustine went against the Donatists and delegitamized them by arguing for that transmission that anyone made such a claim.
There wasn't even a professional clergy until the mid-late 3rd century and the bishoprate of Rome only gained power when Paul of Samosota was deposed in Antioch and the lawsuit ruled that the official owners of the church were the ones in communion with the capital city and Jerusalem.
Only someone who gets their history entirely as a watered down version of the Catholic church can believe the tripe they sell about "holy tradition".
There wasn't even a professional clergy until the mid-late 3rd century and the bishoprate of Rome only gained power when Paul of Samosota was deposed in Antioch and the lawsuit ruled that the official owners of the church were the ones in communion with the capital city and Jerusalem.
Only someone who gets their history entirely as a watered down version of the Catholic church can believe the tripe they sell about "holy tradition".
Nope, merely a seizing of power for a cloistered group when no such division is Biblically supportable.
The fact that Augustine and his contemporaries were so willing to use force of law to pressure their opponents demonstrates that it is not of the same spirit of the early church.
The very office of the pope wasn't even established until Leo I, then there's embarrassments like the Babylonian captivity when there were multiple popes all fighting for their little fiefdoms.
The idea of a holy tradition separate from and equal to the apostolic tradition enshrined in canon is simply laughable to anyone with a shred of integrity and knowledge of the history of the church.
There is no clergy in which primitive doctrine is preserved, every distinctive of the catholic church can be traced through history as it morphed and shifted to the current chimera that is the RCC.
The fact that Augustine and his contemporaries were so willing to use force of law to pressure their opponents demonstrates that it is not of the same spirit of the early church.
The very office of the pope wasn't even established until Leo I, then there's embarrassments like the Babylonian captivity when there were multiple popes all fighting for their little fiefdoms.
The idea of a holy tradition separate from and equal to the apostolic tradition enshrined in canon is simply laughable to anyone with a shred of integrity and knowledge of the history of the church.
There is no clergy in which primitive doctrine is preserved, every distinctive of the catholic church can be traced through history as it morphed and shifted to the current chimera that is the RCC.
There is no papacy in the gospels and as I said we can look through the history of the church to see how the papacy developed beginning with a loose episcopacy led by Jerusalem, Antioch, Rome, Alexandria and later Constantinople followed by a church led by the emperor as the unofficial head with Rome's primary claim of authority being Paul rather than Peter until Leo I created the papacy and argued for the lineage of Peter.
We can trace the distinctives of Catholicism through history to see how they developed over time. We can pinpoint originators of doctrine, such as how papal infallibility didn't even become a claim until the 17th century. Prior to that councils superceded papal decrees.
We can see markers in the history of the papacy of its expansion, especially under Gregory VI and VII and Pius IX. The Scriptural justifications are thin coverings for very human developments of the papacy.
We can trace the distinctives of Catholicism through history to see how they developed over time. We can pinpoint originators of doctrine, such as how papal infallibility didn't even become a claim until the 17th century. Prior to that councils superceded papal decrees.
We can see markers in the history of the papacy of its expansion, especially under Gregory VI and VII and Pius IX. The Scriptural justifications are thin coverings for very human developments of the papacy.
The catholic church has a man ordained by God as its head? really? Pedophilia, wars, corruption, rampant sin, paganism, wealth beyond mans belief but hidden away from the church, slaves, pomp and ceremony, manmade ideals and rituals, like not allowed to marry, no birth control , control of the leadership, interference in politics. Hardly seems like a person or ideology God would approve of. As a matter of fact, no organised religion I have been to (and there is many) comes anywhere near to Jesus perfection and ideals , values.
lenna said:
well she is right. I am very familiar with Catholicism as my father was Catholic before accepting Christ. And believe me, he tried very hard to be a good Catholic, including going on his knees up rough stone stairs trying to get an answer to prayer.
now I see you are Catholic which is why I say the above. I had a few best friends who were also Catholic and my SIL was Catholic. So, no triggers here. I'm not Protestant. I am a Christian and do not identify with the political and geographical pursuits of either side, for example King Henry the viii being excommunicated by the pope who would not grant him an annulment. So then the reformation was launched and Catholicism became less popular. I am sure that was what God intended, mind you He used it to some extent, but that's God for you. Able to turn things around for the good.
Henry also greatly benefited with regards to filling his coffers with Cromwell as his chief minister, ordering 800 monasteries to be disbanded with their lands and gold/treasures, taken for the crown. Interestingly, Henry never became a Protestant himself, having been indoctrinated into Catholicism and suffering from the usual superstitions
actually, you are calling others false who disagree with YOUR faith. I guess you missed that though?
you were being evasive about the fact you are Catholic. let's be honest and if you want to employ the use of the word 'triggered', then extend it to your particular beliefs and the fact you are so quick to defend them. Fine. defend them. but you know very well that those who are not Catholic do not believe in some of the most 'sacred' things that you do.
Click to expand...
Bbrdrd said:
No, they weren't. It wasn't until Augustine went against the Donatists and delegitamized them by arguing for that transmission that anyone made such a claim.
There wasn't even a professional clergy until the mid-late 3rd century and the bishoprate of Rome only gained power when Paul of Samosota was deposed in Antioch and the lawsuit ruled that the official owners of the church were the ones in communion with the capital city and Jerusalem.
Only someone who gets their history entirely as a watered down version of the Catholic church can believe the tripe they sell about "holy tradition".
Click to expand...
A process of guarding the deposit of Faith not iNVENTING a different one.
Seems like easy responses to those two post.
You might need someone to help you respond to so many post that oppose your views.
well she is right. I am very familiar with Catholicism as my father was Catholic before accepting Christ. And believe me, he tried very hard to be a good Catholic, including going on his knees up rough stone stairs trying to get an answer to prayer.
now I see you are Catholic which is why I say the above. I had a few best friends who were also Catholic and my SIL was Catholic. So, no triggers here. I'm not Protestant. I am a Christian and do not identify with the political and geographical pursuits of either side, for example King Henry the viii being excommunicated by the pope who would not grant him an annulment. So then the reformation was launched and Catholicism became less popular. I am sure that was what God intended, mind you He used it to some extent, but that's God for you. Able to turn things around for the good.
Henry also greatly benefited with regards to filling his coffers with Cromwell as his chief minister, ordering 800 monasteries to be disbanded with their lands and gold/treasures, taken for the crown. Interestingly, Henry never became a Protestant himself, having been indoctrinated into Catholicism and suffering from the usual superstitions
actually, you are calling others false who disagree with YOUR faith. I guess you missed that though?
you were being evasive about the fact you are Catholic. let's be honest and if you want to employ the use of the word 'triggered', then extend it to your particular beliefs and the fact you are so quick to defend them. Fine. defend them. but you know very well that those who are not Catholic do not believe in some of the most 'sacred' things that you do.
Click to expand...
Bbrdrd said:
No, they weren't. It wasn't until Augustine went against the Donatists and delegitamized them by arguing for that transmission that anyone made such a claim.
There wasn't even a professional clergy until the mid-late 3rd century and the bishoprate of Rome only gained power when Paul of Samosota was deposed in Antioch and the lawsuit ruled that the official owners of the church were the ones in communion with the capital city and Jerusalem.
Only someone who gets their history entirely as a watered down version of the Catholic church can believe the tripe they sell about "holy tradition".
Click to expand...
A process of guarding the deposit of Faith not iNVENTING a different one.
Seems like easy responses to those two post.
You might need someone to help you respond to so many post that oppose your views.
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