You Will Know Them By Their Fruits.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 14, 2011
69,174
14,713
113
The Sacraments always were kept by the institution. They flow from the Apostles. If everyone and anyone could bind and loose chaos would result.
They can not even interpret John 6 correctly, and turned it into a ceremony which is so far apart from Gods intended purpose it is more pagan than christian
 
Apr 2, 2020
626
207
43
The Sacraments always were kept by the institution. They flow from the Apostles. If everyone and anyone could bind and loose chaos would result.
No, they weren't. It wasn't until Augustine went against the Donatists and delegitamized them by arguing for that transmission that anyone made such a claim.

There wasn't even a professional clergy until the mid-late 3rd century and the bishoprate of Rome only gained power when Paul of Samosota was deposed in Antioch and the lawsuit ruled that the official owners of the church were the ones in communion with the capital city and Jerusalem.

Only someone who gets their history entirely as a watered down version of the Catholic church can believe the tripe they sell about "holy tradition".
 
Aug 14, 2019
494
110
43
well she is right. I am very familiar with Catholicism as my father was Catholic before accepting Christ. And believe me, he tried very hard to be a good Catholic, including going on his knees up rough stone stairs trying to get an answer to prayer.

now I see you are Catholic which is why I say the above. I had a few best friends who were also Catholic and my SIL was Catholic. So, no triggers here. I'm not Protestant. I am a Christian and do not identify with the political and geographical pursuits of either side, for example King Henry the viii being excommunicated by the pope who would not grant him an annulment. So then the reformation was launched and Catholicism became less popular. I am sure that was what God intended, mind you He used it to some extent, but that's God for you. Able to turn things around for the good.

Henry also greatly benefited with regards to filling his coffers with Cromwell as his chief minister, ordering 800 monasteries to be disbanded with their lands and gold/treasures, taken for the crown. Interestingly, Henry never became a Protestant himself, having been indoctrinated into Catholicism and suffering from the usual superstitions



actually, you are calling others false who disagree with YOUR faith. I guess you missed that though?

you were being evasive about the fact you are Catholic. let's be honest and if you want to employ the use of the word 'triggered', then extend it to your particular beliefs and the fact you are so quick to defend them. Fine. defend them. but you know very well that those who are not Catholic do not believe in some of the most 'sacred' things that you do.
No, they weren't. It wasn't until Augustine went against the Donatists and delegitamized them by arguing for that transmission that anyone made such a claim.

There wasn't even a professional clergy until the mid-late 3rd century and the bishoprate of Rome only gained power when Paul of Samosota was deposed in Antioch and the lawsuit ruled that the official owners of the church were the ones in communion with the capital city and Jerusalem.

Only someone who gets their history entirely as a watered down version of the Catholic church can believe the tripe they sell about "holy tradition".
A process of guarding the deposit of Faith not iNVENTING a different one.
 

Bbrdrd

Active member
Apr 2, 2020
626
207
43
A process of guarding the deposit of Faith not iNVENTING a different one.
Nope, merely a seizing of power for a cloistered group when no such division is Biblically supportable.

The fact that Augustine and his contemporaries were so willing to use force of law to pressure their opponents demonstrates that it is not of the same spirit of the early church.

The very office of the pope wasn't even established until Leo I, then there's embarrassments like the Babylonian captivity when there were multiple popes all fighting for their little fiefdoms.

The idea of a holy tradition separate from and equal to the apostolic tradition enshrined in canon is simply laughable to anyone with a shred of integrity and knowledge of the history of the church.

There is no clergy in which primitive doctrine is preserved, every distinctive of the catholic church can be traced through history as it morphed and shifted to the current chimera that is the RCC.
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
494
110
43
The idea of a holy tradition separate from and equal to the apostolic tradition enshrined in canon is simply laughable to anyone with a shred of integrity and knowledge of the history of the church.
Why would God introduce eternal reality into time if it was then to be temporary?

He said " this is my body" then Jesus said to do this in memorial.

So God introduces an eternal reality, shows it to us and told us to do it perpetually. For it to be temporary?
 

Bbrdrd

Active member
Apr 2, 2020
626
207
43
Why would God introduce eternal reality into time if it was then to be temporary?

He said " this is my body" then Jesus said to do this in memorial.

So God introduces an eternal reality, shows it to us and told us to do it perpetually. For it to be temporary?
What does the Lord's supper have to do with the existence or non-existence of a "holy tradition"?

Can't help but notice you sidestep the historical issues with the papacy and its invention for a nonsequitor.
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
494
110
43
Anyone with any knowledge of the history of the papacy knows how laughable claims such as papal infallibility are even when speaking "ex cathedra."
You don't believe God could preserve His Word among defective humans?
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
494
110
43
What does the Lord's supper have to do with the existence or non-existence of a "holy tradition"?

Can't help but notice you sidestep the historical issues with the papacy and its invention for a nonsequitor.
The Lord's Supper is Sacred Tradition. Christians gathered around the breaking of bread at dawn on the first day of the week. They still do.
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
494
110
43
So from nonsequitor to strawman. Hoo boy.

It's not a question of what God could do, but that the claims of the papacy are demonstrably false in history.
I feel I should revisit some posts. The claims of the Papacy like infallibility are described in the text of the Gospels.
 

Bbrdrd

Active member
Apr 2, 2020
626
207
43
I feel I should revisit some posts. The claims of the Papacy like infallibility are described in the text of the Gospels.
There is no papacy in the gospels and as I said we can look through the history of the church to see how the papacy developed beginning with a loose episcopacy led by Jerusalem, Antioch, Rome, Alexandria and later Constantinople followed by a church led by the emperor as the unofficial head with Rome's primary claim of authority being Paul rather than Peter until Leo I created the papacy and argued for the lineage of Peter.

We can trace the distinctives of Catholicism through history to see how they developed over time. We can pinpoint originators of doctrine, such as how papal infallibility didn't even become a claim until the 17th century. Prior to that councils superceded papal decrees.

We can see markers in the history of the papacy of its expansion, especially under Gregory VI and VII and Pius IX. The Scriptural justifications are thin coverings for very human developments of the papacy.
 
Jul 18, 2017
11,859
4,918
113
The claims of the Papacy like infallibility are described in the text of the Gospels.
This is simply not true. Even the Orthodox Church rejects this notion. Church history shows that the bishops of Rome wanted supremacy over all other bishops and patriarchs. It was all about politics and power, with no Scriptural authority.
 

Gregoryp

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2019
1,064
748
113
The catholic church has a man ordained by God as its head? really? Pedophilia, wars, corruption, rampant sin, paganism, wealth beyond mans belief but hidden away from the church, slaves, pomp and ceremony, manmade ideals and rituals, like not allowed to marry, no birth control , control of the leadership, interference in politics. Hardly seems like a person or ideology God would approve of. As a matter of fact, no organised religion I have been to (and there is many) comes anywhere near to Jesus perfection and ideals , values.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,495
1,034
113
lenna said:
well she is right. I am very familiar with Catholicism as my father was Catholic before accepting Christ. And believe me, he tried very hard to be a good Catholic, including going on his knees up rough stone stairs trying to get an answer to prayer.

now I see you are Catholic which is why I say the above. I had a few best friends who were also Catholic and my SIL was Catholic. So, no triggers here. I'm not Protestant. I am a Christian and do not identify with the political and geographical pursuits of either side, for example King Henry the viii being excommunicated by the pope who would not grant him an annulment. So then the reformation was launched and Catholicism became less popular. I am sure that was what God intended, mind you He used it to some extent, but that's God for you. Able to turn things around for the good.

Henry also greatly benefited with regards to filling his coffers with Cromwell as his chief minister, ordering 800 monasteries to be disbanded with their lands and gold/treasures, taken for the crown. Interestingly, Henry never became a Protestant himself, having been indoctrinated into Catholicism and suffering from the usual superstitions



actually, you are calling others false who disagree with YOUR faith. I guess you missed that though?

you were being evasive about the fact you are Catholic. let's be honest and if you want to employ the use of the word 'triggered', then extend it to your particular beliefs and the fact you are so quick to defend them. Fine. defend them. but you know very well that those who are not Catholic do not believe in some of the most 'sacred' things that you do.
Click to expand...

Bbrdrd said:

No, they weren't. It wasn't until Augustine went against the Donatists and delegitamized them by arguing for that transmission that anyone made such a claim.

There wasn't even a professional clergy until the mid-late 3rd century and the bishoprate of Rome only gained power when Paul of Samosota was deposed in Antioch and the lawsuit ruled that the official owners of the church were the ones in communion with the capital city and Jerusalem.

Only someone who gets their history entirely as a watered down version of the Catholic church can believe the tripe they sell about "holy tradition".
Click to expand...

A process of guarding the deposit of Faith not iNVENTING a different one.

A process of guarding the deposit of Faith not iNVENTING a different one.
Seems like easy responses to those two post.
You might need someone to help you respond to so many post that oppose your views.
 
Jul 18, 2017
11,859
4,918
113
What's the difference?
There is a very big difference between the Catholic Eucharist (or Mass) and the Christian observance of the Lord's Supper. Kindly go the the Catholic New Advent Encyclopedia and study the matter. The Mass is a LITERAL sacrifice. Christ is RE-SACRIFICED at the Mass.
 
Jun 26, 2020
434
218
43
What does that mean in the bible?
My understanding is you will know people by the results of their actions. Meaning, people could say anything they want, but in the end their actions demonstrate their words, more specifically, the results of their actions, whether good or bad. Godspeed.