Your Input: Baptism vs Being Filled

[KingdomGeneration]

Earlier today I was reading through the book of Acts and found something very interesting:

Acts Chapter 8, verses 14-17 (KJV):

"Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."

This piece of scripture would indicate that salvation, water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are three separate occurances which seems to verify doctrine held on to by Pentecostals.

 

[KingdomGeneration]

Earlier today I was reading through the book of Acts and found something very interesting:

Acts Chapter 8, verses 14-17 (KJV):

"Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."

This piece of scripture would indicate that salvation, water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are three separate occurances which seems to verify doctrine held on to by Pentecostals.

However, if my memory serves me correct, there are instances in the bible in which a person receives the baptism of the holy spirit upon being saved however these instances usually involved speaking in an unknown tongue. I'll have to do more study to find the scriptures...

 

[MahogonySnail]

I agree with those points. Scripture shows, there's not particular timing, there's no particular order, and at the very least the book of Acts shows that the one time act of Pentecost was not the be all and end all of it. Some claim that Pentecost was it and so we shouldn't or can't have our own Pentecost. These verses about the Spirit falling upon people after Pentecost in a different time and different location proves that each of us can have our own Pentecost experience if you like. I really find it ironic that people who disregard the Word of God about this are so particular about the mode and method of water baptism (eg immersion) but they totally ignore the fact that the Spirit baptism is often a subsequent and separate experience, as shown in Acts, often accompanied by tongues. The full Gospel includes not just repentance, faith and water baptism but also baptism in the Spirit. Most only preach and live by half a Gospel.

 

[MahogonySnail]

These verses about subsequent fallings of the Spirit also prove that the Spirit can fall upon whoever He likes at any time and any place. Some believe that God sent the Spirit to earth and so the Spirit is no longer in heaven, or can no longer fall upon people, or something like that. I can't see how, considering God is omnipresent.

 

[MaggieMye]

Being filled with the Spirit is the condition of being EMPOWERED from on high for the purpose of ministry and effectiveness as part of the body of Christ (just like the disciples in the NT were). It is a separate thing from the obedient ACT of being baptised, which all believers are COMMANDED

 

[MaggieMye]

Being filled with the Spirit is the condition of being EMPOWERED from on high for the purpose of ministry and effectiveness as part of the body of Christ (just like the disciples in the NT were). It is a separate thing from the obedient ACT of being baptised, which all believers are COMMANDED to do upon conversion.
Many people, myself included, were 'Spirit-filled' before being water baptised by immersion, (which is the Biblical way of baptism). Being immersed in water or having it poured upon one's head (glasses of water example) does not cause one to be filled or empowered with Holy Spirit. The immersion form is simply the act of obedience that is the prophetic act of dying to the old, fleshly self and being renewed, as was Christ.
Maggie

 

[Thaddaeus]

ILLUSTRATION: Take (2) glasses and fill one with water, and then take (2) paper towels and crunch them both up. Immerse one of the paper towels in the glass full of water and observe. Then take the other paper towel and put it in the empty glass. Fill the empty glass and observe. When you compare the condition of the towel in each glass they are the same. One towel was immersed (or baptised) in water and the other was filled with water. The conclusion suggest that the baptism and filling are the same.

When we believed upon Christ we recieved the Holy Spirit, and at that moment we were filled and baptized with the Holy Spirit and placed in Christ together as members of one another and of His body, flesh and bones (Rom 12:4, Eph 5:30). That's why the scriptures teach that there is 'one baptism', 'one Spirit' and 'one body' (Eph 4:4,5). That happens at salvation when we were all baptized into Christ (Gal 3:27). Then we get into (1Cor 12 & 13). Notice (1Cor 12:13);

'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit'.

There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit that we are filled with at salvation and we are to continue in that filling (Eph 5:18). Then comes the gifts, administrations and operations that are given and divided by the same Spirit to every man as he wills to profit all members together (1Cor 12:4-13).

wow good demo about the two paper towels but you didn't finish the demo
take both paper towels out of the water. leave them out for awhile both paper towels will dry out, the one that was immersed is still a paper towel that has been immersed (Baptized, One Baptism( OSAS)), however both paper towels will have to have some more water added ( filled) in order to stay in the same condition that they were when immersed or filled. Jesus, John the baptist and Paul spoke of another Baptism seperate from the one John the Baptist was doing so you have misinterpreted
Eph 4:5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,Eph 4:6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
One Lord, there were many lords(Gods) mentioned within the scriptures itself so to say that this is saying that there is only one lord then we would have a contradiction within the scriptures which just can't be.

Ge 2:4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Ge 18:12Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my LORD being old also?
Sarah called Abraham lord , you know I haven't been able to get my wife to do that yet! many more verses we could post but let me show this main one then we get to the one faith.

Ex 20:3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

why would God himself take time to put in His ten commandment ex.20:3 if he was the only ( one ) He is the only one true Lord Or we could even say the one important God( Lord ) of our salvation.

One Faith, there is even two faiths within My temple ( i am only going to judge myself here) I have the measure of faith God Gave me for salvation

Ro 12:3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the MEASURE of faith.
but then I have another faith in God That gets me through every day, I can have faith In a deacon to aways be there at church with the doors open and heat or air on, I can have faith in my wife after soon be 30 years of marriage to know what she will do and what she won't do but that faith is not the important faith ( one Faith) that will save me.

one Baptism, to say that this states that there is only one baptism , is to say we have to cut out some of the Bible , which I am not willing to do and hope that I will never be ready to do, man does not live by Bread alone , but by every word of God.

Ac 1:5For John truly BAPTIZED with water; but ye shall be BAPTIZED with the Holy Ghost not many days hence

Mt 3:11I indeed BAPTIZE you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall BAPTIZE you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Please Note here that even the ones that where receiving he Baptism that John the Baptist was baptising with John told them that they were going to receive another Baptism after this one. wow johnpreached that the people would receive, two baptism, the same person would get 2 baptism. but esp. says One Baptism, oh no there must be a contradiction within the scriptures , NOT!!!! I grew up in Church and when we would get the chance to go swimming in the river, you know what we would baptize each other, but this is not the Baptism that was important for our salvation. acts 19;1 - 6 is where paul also after the people had received the baptism of John that paul baptized them with the Spirit

One Lord that can save, One faith that saves, one Baptism that can keep us saved.

1jo 2:24Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.1jo 2:25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

 

[KingdomGeneration]

Here's biblical example of not only someone being filled by the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, but they received before water baptism and were indeed gentiles:

Acts 10:44-18

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

 

[BLC]

Being filled with the Spirit is the condition of being EMPOWERED from on high for the purpose of ministry and effectiveness as part of the body of Christ (just like the disciples in the NT were). It is a separate thing from the obedient ACT of being baptised, which all believers are COMMANDED to do upon conversion.
Many people, myself included, were 'Spirit-filled' before being water baptised by immersion, (which is the Biblical way of baptism). Being immersed in water or having it poured upon one's head (glasses of water example) does not cause one to be filled or empowered with Holy Spirit. The immersion form is simply the act of obedience that is the prophetic act of dying to the old, fleshly self and being renewed, as was Christ.
Maggie

The glasses of water had nothing to do with water baptism. It was an illustration of being 'baptized' and/or 'filled' with the Holy Spirit at salvation. If I did not make that clear, please accept my apology. I am in agreement with what you have posted. BLC

 

[Thaddaeus]

The glasses of water had nothing to do with water baptism. It was an illustration of being 'baptized' and/or 'filled' with the Holy Spirit at salvation. If I did not make that clear, please accept my apology. I am in agreement with what you have posted. BLC

No I knew you was giving like a parable but I believe that there is a difference between baptism and being filled. no one ever mentions Todd Bentley ( i am not judging todd but rather praying for him) much anymore, but at one time He had a tremendous filling of the Holy Ghost, however as David and alot of other great men of God they took their eyes off of God and put them on women, others may have fallen to greed, or the love of money. but I believe that God took the filling away but still dwells with them. alot of people has the Holy Spirit that dwells with them that will never have the fulfilling as some will this is not to say they are not saved, some demoninations don't believe in the fulfilling but have the Holy Spirit dwelling with them. I believe myself as being saved long before I was Introduced by Tommy Zito into the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I had seen the arm of God in my life directing me. and now I sometimes feel filled up, at others times I pray God annoit me with the Spirit again. I know He is in me but I have to empty the flesh to be filled with The Spirit. I once received a double portion of annoiting, I pray that I could stay as I was that day. I don't mean to open this can again but maybe this is the difference between believing one can lose their salvation or not. it was peter that was filled at pentecost but then later as he walked down the street where ever His shadow fell people were heal this is even a greater/ different fulfilling than what he had at pentecost. John said it was the sabbath and he was in the spirit but didn't say that he had been like that the day before. or course he didn't say that he wasn't, but if he was always in the Spirit wouldn't he word it like this It was on the sabbath and like as always I was in the Spirit.

 

[Thaddaeus]

No I knew you was giving like a parable but I believe that there is a difference between baptism and being filled. no one ever mentions Todd Bentley ( i am not judging todd but rather praying for him) much anymore, but at one time He had a tremendous filling of the Holy Ghost, however as David and alot of other great men of God they took their eyes off of God and put them on women, others may have fallen to greed, or the love of money. but I believe that God took the filling away but still dwells with them. alot of people has the Holy Spirit that dwells with them that will never have the fulfilling as some will this is not to say they are not saved, some demoninations don't believe in the fulfilling but have the Holy Spirit dwelling with them. I believe myself as being saved long before I was Introduced by Tommy Zito into the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I had seen the arm of God in my life directing me. and now I sometimes feel filled up, at others times I pray God annoit me with the Spirit again. I know He is in me but I have to empty the flesh to be filled with The Spirit. I once received a double portion of annoiting, I pray that I could stay as I was that day. I don't mean to open this can again but maybe this is the difference between believing one can lose their salvation or not. it was peter that was filled at pentecost but then later as he walked down the street where ever His shadow fell people were heal this is even a greater/ different fulfilling than what he had at pentecost. John said it was the sabbath and he was in the spirit but didn't say that he had been like that the day before. or course he didn't say that he wasn't, but if he was always in the Spirit wouldn't he word it like this It was on the sabbath and like as always I was in the Spirit.

I forgot the scriptures ;
Ac 19:1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,Ac 19:2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.Ac 19:3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.Ac 19:4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.Ac 19:5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.Ac 19:6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
here are some believer that didn't received the Holy Ghost whenthey believed

 

[sab]

I've just been considering this very topic too. And I've found it very exciting.

I saw in the scriptures that in the various accounts in Acts a number of verbs or expressions were used to describe the same experience.

For example Acts 1:5 For John truly baptised with water and you shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit not many days hence. (Jesus anticipating Pentecost)

The fulfillment to Jesus'words came in Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the spirit gave them utterance.

So "being filled with the Spirit" is the same as being "baptised with the holy spirit".

Then Peter quotes Joel to tell the crowd what just happened. Acts 2:17 It shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out my spirit on all flesh. So he
related this "pouring out" to what had just happened to them.

Now the crowd had been attracted by the noise of 120 people all speaking in tongues.

Peter said in Acts 2:32-33 "This Jesus God has raised up, of which we all are witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. "
The crowd said, "What shall we do?"
Peter said, "Repent and be baptised every one of you for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children
as many as the Lord our God shall call.

So in this one passage four different expressions are used to describe one experience: baptised with the Holy Spirit (1:5), filled with the Holy Spirit (2:4), the spirit was to
be 'poured out'(2:17), and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (2:38).

We can also look at Acts 8:15-18 three different expressions are used to describe one experience when the Samaritans were saved: receiving the Holy Spirit (v15, 17 and 19), He had fallen upon none of them (v16), and
through laying on of the apostles'hands the Holy Spirit was given.

Acts 10:44-48 is even clearer. Notice the different expressions used to describe what happened.

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered,
"Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we [have]?"

Then in
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning.
Acts 11:16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' (as Jesus had said earlier as recorded in Acts 1:5 (which hadn't been written at that time))
Acts 11:17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as [He gave] us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?"
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

Thus the baptism of the Spirit that the Gentiles had just received was proof that they had been granted repentance by God.

In Acts 11:15 Peter is also clearly stating that Pentecost was the beginning (Not John 20:22 as many say) because Jesus also said in John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. and John 7:39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet [given], because Jesus was not yet glorified. )(Here Peter is saying the time they believed was Pentecost.) (Which agrees with Mark 16:16)

In Acts 19:2 & 6 The verbs 'received' and 'came on them' are used and Paul refers back to John the Baptist who said , "I Baptise you in water unto repentance but He who is coming after me will baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire." (Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16 and John 1:33) The fact that this statement of John the Baptist's appears in all four gospels shows it was the main message of John.

 

[Baruch]

ILLUSTRATION: Take (2) glasses and fill one with water, and then take (2) paper towels and crunch them both up. Immerse one of the paper towels in the glass full of water and observe. Then take the other paper towel and put it in the empty glass. Fill the empty glass and observe. When you compare the condition of the towel in each glass they are the same. One towel was immersed (or baptised) in water and the other was filled with water. The conclusion suggest that the baptism and filling are the same.

When we believed upon Christ we recieved the Holy Spirit, and at that moment we were filled and baptized with the Holy Spirit and placed in Christ together as members of one another and of His body, flesh and bones (Rom 12:4, Eph 5:30). That's why the scriptures teach that there is 'one baptism', 'one Spirit' and 'one body' (Eph 4:4,5). That happens at salvation when we were all baptized into Christ (Gal 3:27). Then we get into (1Cor 12 & 13). Notice (1Cor 12:13);

'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit'.

There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit that we are filled with at salvation and we are to continue in that filling (Eph 5:18). Then comes the gifts, administrations and operations that are given and divided by the same Spirit to every man as he wills to profit all members together (1Cor 12:4-13).

Would that not suggest that this one baptism has never stopped? Then one cannot say they had received Him if they are in the process of receiving Him continually.

If they have received Him, then that one baptism is over... as in filled. That is how we become witnesses of the Good News in Jesus Christ; otherwise, we cannot bear Good News yet if we are still in the process of being saved or becoming His.

The fact that Matthew 9:17 puts any further continual filling as falsehood is because we are a new creature in Christ Jesus as in a new wineskin, and able to hold the new wine. To imply continually filling is to suggest that His work of salvation is not complete.

Ephesians 5:18... if "be filled with the Spirit" was beside that point, then there would be controversy, but as it is.. Ephesians 5:18 was not an instruction for believers to seek to be filled by the Spirit but to remain filled by the Spirit presently as opposed to being drunk with wine wherein there is excess... since drunkness works against the fruit of the Spirit which is self control or temperance.

Ephesians 5:18 is an exhortation to remain in self control as other verses has given the call to be sober.. and vigilant.

We are to rest in Jesus when we came to Him that we are filled, and thus hungering and thirsting no more so we can be witnesses of Him and nothing else nor preaching something else in His name for Jesus Christ is the Gospel and the Good News to man.. John 6:35

 

[Aliciaforjesus]

Did Abraham have a bible, no!

I bet it was easier for him to just listen and believe!

I bet he learned the word before it was written on paper!

As a living word written on his heart by God, not man!

We mess things up, all or us!

Why be so concerned with others and what they believe,

You are commanded to love.

Don't be concerned with pointing out false doctrine,
people that are deceived can only be changed by God,
Pray For Them!
Don't push people away by judgeing a persons heart by what they try to write as the best they can to express the things of God, at the level they are at.
We are all just learning and all of us are at different levels.
None of us are 100% right, nor are we 100% wrong!

 

[Baruch]

Did Abraham have a bible, no!

I bet it was easier for him to just listen and believe!

I bet he learned the word before it was written on paper!

As a living word written on his heart by God, not man!

We mess things up, all or us!

Why be so concerned with others and what they believe,

You are commanded to love.

Don't be concerned with pointing out false doctrine,
people that are deceived can only be changed by God,
Pray For Them!
Don't push people away by judgeing a persons heart by what they try to write as the best they can to express the things of God, at the level they are at.
We are all just learning and all of us are at different levels.
None of us are 100% right, nor are we 100% wrong!

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Colossians 1:25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.