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M
Look at the atrocities in the Sudan and Somalia and Syria. The Fall of Adam and man's iniquity to man causes a lot of suffering. God will right it one day. Looking forward to eternal life after resurrection causes many not to give up hope that God will remember them. Knowing that Jesus was raised from the dead and sits at the right hand of God gives many hope.
1
These people who don't want to give up their traditions of man and their religious spirit, and submit to God and His word, are going to try every tactic in their magic box of hoaxes to make it look like we can have the fullness of heaven now for ALL.
Don't fall for it folks. We see the harm it causes.
Stay strong.
Don't fall for it folks. We see the harm it causes.
Stay strong.
C
If my reasoning is flawed then why is it that so many people were healed upon salvation before being indoctrinated?
Anyways, I'm assuming you are referring to Paul's thorn from 2 Cor. 12? Nothing in that passage suggests that Paul thorn was in deed a sickness. In fact, the passage itself seems to suggest otherwise:
While scripture itself does not give a physical description of what Paul's thorn was, it does say that the thorn was a "messenger of Satan". Biblically, the term "messenger of Satan" is always a reference to a demonic principality or power. Throughout scripture it makes mention of such demonic principalities & powers operating as Satanic overseers of nations and or regions influencing the people found within.
Apparently this demonic principality was sent by Satan to harass and attack Paul on numerous occasions. Keep in mind that Paul had been physically beaten several times, imprisoned on a couple of occasions and even stoned. Also, Judaizers had infiltrated the early church trying to place Gentile believers under the old Law and were attempting to deny Paul's apostolic authority.
I don't believe Paul's thorn to be a sickness at all but rather, a demonic principality that was using people to harass and abuse Paul. In fact, there are several verses of scripture that use the word "thorn" to describe people who were going to attack and harass God's people throughout the Old Testament. Seeing as Paul was an educated man, well verse in shedding New Testament light on Old Testament concepts, I believe one can safely assume that the thorn in Paul's side was not a sickness but rather people and / or governments under Satanic influence.
Anyways, I'm assuming you are referring to Paul's thorn from 2 Cor. 12? Nothing in that passage suggests that Paul thorn was in deed a sickness. In fact, the passage itself seems to suggest otherwise:
While scripture itself does not give a physical description of what Paul's thorn was, it does say that the thorn was a "messenger of Satan". Biblically, the term "messenger of Satan" is always a reference to a demonic principality or power. Throughout scripture it makes mention of such demonic principalities & powers operating as Satanic overseers of nations and or regions influencing the people found within.
Apparently this demonic principality was sent by Satan to harass and attack Paul on numerous occasions. Keep in mind that Paul had been physically beaten several times, imprisoned on a couple of occasions and even stoned. Also, Judaizers had infiltrated the early church trying to place Gentile believers under the old Law and were attempting to deny Paul's apostolic authority.
I don't believe Paul's thorn to be a sickness at all but rather, a demonic principality that was using people to harass and abuse Paul. In fact, there are several verses of scripture that use the word "thorn" to describe people who were going to attack and harass God's people throughout the Old Testament. Seeing as Paul was an educated man, well verse in shedding New Testament light on Old Testament concepts, I believe one can safely assume that the thorn in Paul's side was not a sickness but rather people and / or governments under Satanic influence.
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1
I never once said that we can have heaven now. In fact, my eschotology says otherwise. 
I merely made mention of one manifestation of the Holy Spirit who should reside in all believers.
I merely made mention of one manifestation of the Holy Spirit who should reside in all believers.
Saying everyone can be fully healed now.
Well. Yeah.
So we're in agreement that all believers can't be healed this side of heaven?
S
What do you say then?
If all of us are to recieve healing, "Always" is it safe to say, as Christians we have no need for physicians? Do those believing this doctrine have proof in their own life of constant healing of physical illness within their bodies. If so please leave your testimony so that I can believe too.
At times we MUST go through illness in this world, so that God may be glorified in our spirits through our circumstances.
In other words, our healing at times is in the emotional, mental, spiritual, however "through" the physical circumstance.
This same doctrine, says that if you are "poor" or lack, then you somehow have come short before God, and are doing something wrong in your walk? Please. Jesus said in this life we would have many difficulties. He himself said He had no place to lay His head.
Let's be careful that in thinking we know the mind of God, we don't spread an inconsistant message to the weaker believers, causing them to stumble.
If all of us are to recieve healing, "Always" is it safe to say, as Christians we have no need for physicians? Do those believing this doctrine have proof in their own life of constant healing of physical illness within their bodies. If so please leave your testimony so that I can believe too.
At times we MUST go through illness in this world, so that God may be glorified in our spirits through our circumstances.
In other words, our healing at times is in the emotional, mental, spiritual, however "through" the physical circumstance.
This same doctrine, says that if you are "poor" or lack, then you somehow have come short before God, and are doing something wrong in your walk? Please. Jesus said in this life we would have many difficulties. He himself said He had no place to lay His head.
Let's be careful that in thinking we know the mind of God, we don't spread an inconsistant message to the weaker believers, causing them to stumble.
X
I have 3 incurable diseases (on this side of life.) I believe that I will be healed when I get to the other side. I have prayed to be healed for years and I've realized that I have to wait until I'm taken from this place. If that's what God wills, so be it. I'll feel better when my new life comes. They say that in heaven there is no more sadness or illness, should we expect that here?
A
This is nearly word for word what you said in the BS room last week.
My response will also be the same. What the sick will understand here is that since they
havnt been healed and it takes the same amount of faith to be healed as it does to be saved.
Then they must not be saved. Why cant you see that? And stop saying that!
Last week i got pms after your mic time(those hurt by your words). People who are ill and are constantly being hurt by this wrong theology...to the point they wont go to church much and seldom come to cc chat.
In fact i think ive ministered in cc chat to the sick and ill who have been deeply hurt by other
people (both in church, tv, and cc chat) with this doctrine probably more than anything else.
In fact one committed himself into a hospital, and rarely comes around.
Show a verse that God wants all people healed now. If you cant provide one then you have no Idea what
Gods will is for anyone. Therefore your opinions have no basis in the bible.
My response will also be the same. What the sick will understand here is that since they
havnt been healed and it takes the same amount of faith to be healed as it does to be saved.
Then they must not be saved. Why cant you see that? And stop saying that!
Last week i got pms after your mic time(those hurt by your words). People who are ill and are constantly being hurt by this wrong theology...to the point they wont go to church much and seldom come to cc chat.
In fact i think ive ministered in cc chat to the sick and ill who have been deeply hurt by other
people (both in church, tv, and cc chat) with this doctrine probably more than anything else.
In fact one committed himself into a hospital, and rarely comes around.
Show a verse that God wants all people healed now. If you cant provide one then you have no Idea what
Gods will is for anyone. Therefore your opinions have no basis in the bible.
A
A good friend became involved WOF church that taught health and wealth.
He was assistant pastor...mom died of cancer, brother committed suicide, wife left him
for his activities with the woman of the church, and hes now a methhead living in traincars.
Many more horror stories of the disapointments and breakups of many families, people ive both
known and met through the years.
It works like this: If the false promises dont work out then you havent enough faith or your
not giving enough. While they go on fleecing the flock and attracting them with false claims,
and lousy theology.
The bible say give as YOU purpose in YOUR heart. Not out of necessity.
And faith is a gift of God. Not something you muster up on your own.
He was assistant pastor...mom died of cancer, brother committed suicide, wife left him
for his activities with the woman of the church, and hes now a methhead living in traincars.
Many more horror stories of the disapointments and breakups of many families, people ive both
known and met through the years.
It works like this: If the false promises dont work out then you havent enough faith or your
not giving enough. While they go on fleecing the flock and attracting them with false claims,
and lousy theology.
The bible say give as YOU purpose in YOUR heart. Not out of necessity.
And faith is a gift of God. Not something you muster up on your own.
A
Well Mrs Lemon had a lousy last few years(before dying) in the way she was shunned, most were
since noone ever really got healed. And noone got rich. The ones who made it worked for their living.
And the folks that left...and there was a revolving door...needed councelling and it took time
for them to readjust.
In my area theres a growing of new reformed churches. Most of them came out of WOF and charismatic
churches. Im not surprised at their desire to go from one extreme to another.
since noone ever really got healed. And noone got rich. The ones who made it worked for their living.
And the folks that left...and there was a revolving door...needed councelling and it took time
for them to readjust.
In my area theres a growing of new reformed churches. Most of them came out of WOF and charismatic
churches. Im not surprised at their desire to go from one extreme to another.
