Zionism?

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,641
3,194
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#22
It's biblical...

Joel 3:2 (KJV) I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

(Eze 36:24)
I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.

Zechariah 14:2-4 (NASB) For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
3,985
2,494
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#23
Very bad boys.


We should all be Zionist.


Not complicated.


Yes.
So the term Zionism is a good term when it's used in regards of supporting Israel 🤔 I assume there are some who probably twist the term or claim they are while doing bad things? (As many claim to be Christian) Or the term has come to mean more than one thing. Well either way I suppose we should pray for peace in Israel and everywhere else. I dont want to start a fight with people online especially if I dont know the full story.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,641
3,194
113
#24
So the term Zionism is a good term when it's used in regards of supporting Israel 🤔 I assume there are some who probably twist the term or claim they are while doing bad things? (As many claim to be Christian) Or the term has come to mean more than one thing. Well either way I suppose we should pray for peace in Israel and everywhere else. I dont want to start a fight with people online especially if I dont know the full story.
Only one city that I know of in the Bible which is named where we are to direct our prayers specifically for...

Psalm 122:6 KJV
[6] Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
14,678
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#26
Is this fact or opinion?
It is FACT. Theodor Herzl was the father of Zionism and this is what he envisioned (as per the Jewish Virtual Library):

"Herzl proposed a practical program for collecting funds from Jews around the world by a company to be owned by stockholders, which would work toward the practical realization of this goal. (This organization, when it was eventually formed, was called the Zionist Organization.) He saw the future state as a model social state, basing his ideas on the European model of the time, of a modern enlightened society. It would be neutral and peace-seeking, and of a secular nature.

In his Zionist novel, Altneuland (Old New Land, 1902), Herzl pictured the future Jewish state as a socialist utopia. He envisioned a new society that was to rise in the Land of Israel on a cooperative basis utilizing science and technology in the development of the Land."


https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/theodor-binyamin-ze-rsquo-ev-herzl
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
14,678
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#27
Does anyone out there own a Webster's Dictionary?:confused: It says modern Zionism is simply the support of Israel.
That is rather misleading. Modern Israel in the product of Zionism. Zionism led to the Balfour Declaration, which then led to the establishment of Israel.

"...His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country..."
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,492
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#28
That is rather misleading. Modern Israel in the product of Zionism. Zionism led to the Balfour Declaration, which then led to the establishment of Israel.

"...His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country..."
Yes the Balfour declaration, and the financial supporting of the Rothschild's who purchased much land, and paid for building Israel's Supreme Court and Knesset/Parliment buildings
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,828
4,589
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#29
and more and more Netanyahu is bending to the rothschild's .....
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
793
480
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London
#30
Paul puts it like this

The Jews are enemies of the gospel for our sakes but as touching election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

There is political zionism and there is religious zionism [often political but cloaked in religion]

Neither of these are TRUE zionism. True zionism is the future state when God will once again turn to the Jews and their hearts will turn to Him.

The present political state is not good. But the Jews never pushed the arabs out, they left of their own accord and camped out in the wilderness during the Arab/Israeli war. They hoped the Jews would be pushed into the sea and they could move back in and have the land to themselves.

They should never have been allowed to return. But under international pressure Israel was forced to allow them back into Israel and that is the backdrop to what we see today.

The only true solution is for the arabs and Jews to separate ... but they both want the land and they both want Jerusalem.

We believe that the land and Jerusalem is promised to the Jews.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,641
3,194
113
#31
All should be followers of Jesus Christ "Christians"

Man's Zionism has absolutely nothing to do with biblical Christianity
If one believes all the bible literally one will believe Israel belongs to God who has given it to the Jews.


Jeremiah 31:35-36 KJV
[35] Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: [36] If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,641
3,194
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#32
Yes the Balfour declaration, and the financial supporting of the Rothschild's who purchased much land, and paid for building Israel's Supreme Court and Knesset/Parliment buildings
Nothing too new here, even many of the orthodox Jews are anti Zionists.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
7,464
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#33
But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother (Galatians 4:26).

For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God (Hebrews 11:10).

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel (Heb 12:22ff).

For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come (Heb 13:14).

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,2 and God himself will be with them as their God (Rev 21:1ff)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
14,678
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#34
But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother (Galatians 4:26).
God's plan is to have the New Jerusalem -- the heavenly Jerusalem -- as the heavenly body which will provide light to redeemed and restored Jerusalem on earth (as well as to all the inhabitants of the earth at that time). The New Jerusalem itself is the size of a continent (1500 cubic miles in dimension). And there will be no sun at that time. So it will actually be the Light of God and Christ which will lighten the earth. See Revelation 21.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,492
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#35
God's plan is to have the New Jerusalem -- the heavenly Jerusalem -- as the heavenly body which will provide light to redeemed and restored Jerusalem on earth (as well as to all the inhabitants of the earth at that time). The New Jerusalem itself is the size of a continent (1500 cubic miles in dimension). And there will be no sun at that time. So it will actually be the Light of God and Christ which will lighten the earth. See Revelation 21.
There ya go, New Jerusalem floating above the earth, as the Jesus light for mortal humans running about on the earth in a Millennial Kingdom, "A Fairy Tale" :giggle:

Jesus Christ will return with the resurrection and glorified body of the believers, as death is swallowed up in victory (The End) not the start of a Kingdom on this earth

You can't bend and twist the very clear words of God below, to maintain your Kingdom on this earth, with mortal Jews present in earthly bodies (After The Second Coming)

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:22-26 & 51-54KJV
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end
, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,641
3,194
113
#36
But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother (Galatians 4:26).

For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God (Hebrews 11:10).

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel (Heb 12:22ff).

For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come (Heb 13:14).

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,2 and God himself will be with them as their God (Rev 21:1ff)
In the meantime...


Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.
(Rom 11:25-31)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,641
3,194
113
#37
There ya go, New Jerusalem floating above the earth, as the Jesus light for mortal humans running about on the earth in a Millennial Kingdom :giggle:

Jesus Christ will return with the resurrection and glorified body of the believers, as death is swallowed up in victory (The End) not the start of a Kingdom on this earth

You can't bend and twist the very clear words of God below, to maintain your Kingdom on this earth, with mortal Jews present in earthly bodies (After The Second Coming)

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:22-26 & 51-54KJV
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end
, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Read your Bible, the New Jerusalem doesn't happen during the Millennial Kingdom.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
7,464
1,426
113
48
#38
In the meantime...


Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.
(Rom 11:25-31)



That's certainly true.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,492
113
#39
Read your Bible, the New Jerusalem doesn't happen during the Millennial Kingdom.
Tell that to Nehemiah6 in post #34 above, who has a floating New Jerusalem,with a restored Jerusalem on this earth, Big Smiles To That Claim :giggle:
 
M

MoonCresta

Guest
#40
Paul puts it like this

The Jews are enemies of the gospel for our sakes but as touching election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

There is political zionism and there is religious zionism [often political but cloaked in religion]

Neither of these are TRUE zionism. True zionism is the future state when God will once again turn to the Jews and their hearts will turn to Him.

The present political state is not good. But the Jews never pushed the arabs out, they left of their own accord and camped out in the wilderness during the Arab/Israeli war. They hoped the Jews would be pushed into the sea and they could move back in and have the land to themselves.

They should never have been allowed to return. But under international pressure Israel was forced to allow them back into Israel and that is the backdrop to what we see today.

The only true solution is for the arabs and Jews to separate ... but they both want the land and they both want Jerusalem.

We believe that the land and Jerusalem is promised to the Jews.
Honestly, and maybe a bit tongue-in-cheek, I wish we could give the Isrealis a huge hunk of Texas or maybe Iowa or something. They could all just come over here, and live and work - they are a very hard working people, and their values are terrific! They'd blend right in!