Concerning the appearing of the Lord and our being gathered to Him

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#1
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.


It is the glossing over of the scripture above, as being the reason for the misinterpretation of the order of events regarding the coming of our Lord and the gathering of the church vs. the day of the Lord, which is the time of God’s wrath.

First, let's define the two events.


The gathering of the church (Rapture):
The coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him, is referring to Paul’s detailed description regarding the gathering of the church, with the dead rising first and immediately following that, the living in Christ being changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and being “caught up” in the clouds with those who will have just resurrected, with the entire church meeting the Lord in the air, as described in I Thessalonians 4:13-18 & I Corinthians 15:51-53


The Day of the Lord:
As prophesied throughout the Old and new testaments, this is the time period when God’s wrath will be poured out upon a Christ rejecting world, which is ushered in by the gathering of the church with the subsequent revealing of the that ruler, the antichrist. The OT prophets always described “The Day of the Lord” as always being near (imminent) and as a day of darkness, with wrath and fierce anger, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments described in Revelation chapters 6 thru 18 and which includes the antichrist/beasts kingdom and campaigns against the great tribulation saints and his authority over all of the inhabitants of the earth and his claim of being God. (Isaiah 2:10-12, 17-21, 13:6-13, Joel 1:15, 2:1-2, 10-11, Amos 5:18, Zephaniah 1:2-3, 14-18, Malachi 4:1-3, II Thes.2:4, Rev.6:12-17, 13:5-8).


All that said, I would first like to bring to our attention to the fact that, the coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him vs. The Day of the Lord, as being two closely linked, but separate events, with the time period of the day of the Lord (God’s wrath)following the gathering of the church.


It is these two events that I would like to first focus on. Notice that in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Paul begins by saying “Now concerning the coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him.” Then in verse two he says:

"we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come."


Notice that Paul changes from “the coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him” to “the day of the Lord.” Remember, the day of the Lord is the time of God’s wrath, which follows the coming of the Lord and our being gathered to Him. Some will say, “how do you know that the day of the Lord follows the gathering of the church?” Regarding this, if we go back to verse 2, Paul is comforting the Thessalonians by telling them:


“not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.”


Because many expositors have interpreted the “coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him” as being the same as “the day of the Lord,” they interpret the order of events as follows:


1). The apostasy/Rebellion
2). The man of lawlessness being revealed
3). The coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him


One of the obvious problems with this order, is that in verse 2 Paul is comforting the Thessalonians, which would be no comfort at all if in fact he was telling them that the coming of our Lord and our being gathered together to Him isn’t going to take place until after the apostasy and after the man of lawlessness is revealed, both identifying the day of the Lord with all of God’s wrath and the antichrists reign. If anything, according this interpretation, Paul’s words of comfort would suport the Thessalonians reasons for being unsettled and alarmed because it would be putting them through the wrath of God.


Therefore, it is not the gathering of the church that Paul is referring to in regards to the Thessalonians not being easily unsettled or alarmed, but regarding the day of the Lord, the time of God’s wrath, which is identified by the apostasy and the man of lawlessness being revealed. In other words, it is by the apostasy taking place and the revealing of that man of lawlessness as how they could know that they had entered into the day of the Lord, neither of which had taken place at that time and in fact still hasn’t taken place. A little background regarding Paul’s response to the Thessalonians is in order here:


At some point, there were some who were teaching there in Thessalonica that the resurrection had already taken place. The Thessalonian's knew Paul’s teaching that the dead in Christ would rise first, immediately followed by the living in Christ being changed and caught up with them, with the day of the Lord, the time of God’s wrath to follow. Therefore, the Thessalonian's basically wrote to Paul and said, “Hey Paul! There are some here who teaching that the resurrection has already taken place. Why haven’t we been caught up according to your teaching?” They were concerned because, if the resurrection had indeed taken place and they hadn’t been caught up, then they were concerned about the day of the Lord, God’s coming wrath that they knew was to follow.

In conclusion, there are two errors being made by those who hold to the order of events listed above:


1). They are not recognizing Paul’s change from “the coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him” in verse 1, to Paul’s reference to “the day of the Lord” in verse 2.

2). They have not recognized that Paul’s comfort to the Thessalonians would be no comfort at all if the above sequence was correct. As previously stated, Paul’s words of comfort would actually give the Thessalonians good reasons for being easily unsettled and alarmed, because it would put the gathering of the church as taking place after the apostasy and the revealing of the man of lawlessness, putting them through the day of the Lord, the time of God’s wrath. Therefore, the correct order of events is as follows:

1). The coming of the Lord and our being gathered to Him

2). The Day of the Lord, which is identified by the apostasy and the man lawlessness being revealed.

It is because of Paul’s mention of the coming of the Lord and our being gathered to Him in verse1, followed by the mention of the Day of the Lord in verse 2 which throws people off, causing them to erroneously interpret the gathering of the church as taking place after the apostasy and after the man of lawlessness is revealed, which would certainly be no comfort at all.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
589
113
#2
You have completely twisted and mangled 2Thess 2v1-12, for it most definitely teaches that the Lord comes immediately after the period known as the Great Tribulation (the period of three and a half years that Antichrist sits in the Temple in Jerusalem claiming that he is God. Matt 24v15, Dan 9v27, Rev chapter 13) to bring The Church home (by resurrection and rapture) and destroy the wicked when He also sets up the Millennium Kingdom. Matt 24v29-31, Rev 11v15-19.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#3
You have completely twisted and mangled 2Thess 2v1-12, for it most definitely teaches that the Lord comes immediately after the period known as the Great Tribulation (the period of three and a half years that Antichrist sits in the Temple in Jerusalem claiming that he is God. Matt 24v15, Dan 9v27, Rev chapter 13) to bring The Church home (by resurrection and rapture) and destroy the wicked when He also sets up the Millennium Kingdom. Matt 24v29-31, Rev 11v15-19.
Hello JB,

I've twisted nothing at all. I do a complete exegeses of scripture in order to come to a right conclusion. This goes back to what I said about the need to cross-reference and compare scripture. By putting the gathering of the church as taking place when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom, you will have put the living church through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments which are the wrath of God and which we are not appointed to suffer. Whatever scenario you come up with, the church must be removed prior to the first seal being opened which initiates God's wrath.

You would also have to explain how Rev.19:6-8, 14 shows the bride/church to already be in heaven at the wedding of the Lamb receiving her fine linen, white and clean and then following the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses, ergo, in order to follow the Lord out of heaven, you must already be in heaven.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ and the living in Christ being changed and caught up, takes place prior to the seven years, which is the time of God's wrath. At the end of the seven years, after the 7th bowl has been poured out, then we, the church, follow Christ out of heaven on those white horses.