Rapture at start of Revelation 4 or at the opening of the sixth seal?
One of the debates is over whether or not the church is in the heavens already raptured at the start of Revelation 4.
The evidence supporting this is the verse that John heard "come up here" (ie a rapture) and the fact that the lampstand is up there when John sees no one is worthy to open the scroll.
Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
So the big question is are these seals in chapter 5 opened before or after the rapture.
5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
The lamb is "as it had slain" so this occurs after the crucifixion.
"Having seven seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth". These three references to seven are obviously tied to the lampstand. Chapter 1 we see the Lord in the midst of the lampstand, chapter 2 and 3 we go into the seven lamps which are the seven churches, chapter 4 we see the lampstand is in heaven with the Lord, and now in chapter 5 we here about the lamb having seven horns and seven eyes sent into all the world. The church and the believers were sent into all the world. The church is filled with the spirit of God. So then is the church on the earth at this point or in heaven?
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
We are sitting together with Christ in the heavenlies. That took place after Jesus ascended and long before the rapture takes place. John seeing the lampstand in heaven at this ceremony opening the title deed to the Earth confirms what Paul shared in Ephesians.
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
That title deed which Jesus opens is the mystery which has been hid in God. This chapter is confirming what Paul said. This mystery was opened prior to Paul writing the book of Ephesians. What John saw was a confirmation of what Paul wrote.
Ephesians 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
This is what we see in the book of Revelation. The title deed shows us the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints. We see the exceeding greatness of His power, we see that Jesus is set at the right hand of the Father in the heavenly places, we see Jesus far above all principality and power, we see Jesus has been given to be head over all and we see the church His body.
Therefore I think the teaching that the rapture takes place prior to the opening of these seven seals is not Biblical. It contradicts the clear word in Ephesians.
Not only so, but according to John's epistles we had already seen many antichrists at the time he wrote his epistles. The first seal being opened surely has to refer at least in part, to the deceit and deception of the counterfeit Christs. Obviously that seal had been opened, at least in part, at the time of John. If the word about the counterfeit Christs were still sealed up then how could we know what to look for? The fact that we do know is proof the seal has been opened. Likewise with the seal about the red horse. Think about WW1 and WW2. We can see fulfillment of prophecies in those two wars leading to Israel returning to the good land, fulfilling another prophecy. Again, that seal must be opened, at least in part, because we can see so many mysteries being made clear. The same is true of the third, fourth and fifth seals. We saw many martyrs at the beginning of this age, but the number of Christians killed for their faith in the last one hundred years is probably greater than all those killed in the previous 1900 years. Surely this seal is also opened, at least in part.
The sixth seal is a great earthquake which no doubt has not been opened. That is a great earthquake. Interestingly, there was a great earthquake associated with the resurrection from the dead. Some believe that this is the rapture.
Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
How is it that the whole world realizes the great day of the Lord's wrath is come after this seal is opened but not after the other seals are opened?
The sun is covered as with sackcloth. That is what you wear when you are repenting before God. The Sun denotes the church which is the light set on a hill. All the Christians who are left behind are going to be girt about with sackcloth in repentance.
Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
When the sixth seal is opened this prophecy is fulfilled. What happens before the great and terrible day that signifies the great and terrible day has come? It is the rapture, the "harpazo". Some believers get snatched out of the way of certain destruction.
The stars of heaven falling to earth remind us of the fallen angels being kicked out of heaven when the manchild is caught up to heaven. If you believe that the manchild being caught up to heaven is a picture of the rapture, then surely that event is tied to the sixth seal being opened.
There are also negative events at the rapture, the moon becomes blood -- that is a sign of judgment on the nation of Israel. The sun becomes black, that is judgement on the earth and their natural source of life. The fig trees cast their untimely fruit. This sounds like a big loss to those who were not ready when the Lord returned. It reminds us of the Lord who cursed the fig tree the first time He came because there was no fruit. This time they have fruit, but it isn't ripe.
I would argue that the evidence for the rapture taking place at the opening of the sixth seal is far more persuasive to me than the argument for when John is called up to see the things in heaven.