Summary of Bible references on the Rapture

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
I had a very interesting Dream

12 Now when Jesus heard that John [the Baptist] had been arrested and put in prison, He left for Galilee. 13 And leaving Nazareth, He went and settled in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the country of Zebulun and Naphtali. 14 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah:

15
“The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali,
By the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee [in the district] of the Gentiles—
16
“The people who were sitting (living) in [spiritual] darkness have seen a great Light,
And for those who were sitting (living) in the land and shadow of [spiritual and moral] death,
Upon them a Light has dawned.”


I have been praying and seeking for the signs we will see right before the tribulation begins. I have come to see that the Antichrist, a counterfeit of Jesus Christ, will have a ministry that in many ways mimics or imitates Jesus. One of those ways is "John the Baptist". Just as John prepared the way for the Lord's ministry I see Elon Musk having prepared the way for the Antichrist. He is a Satanist, and he has put everything in place for the mark of the beast.

In my dream I heard that Elon Musk had been arrested. It was so compelling that I got up and checked the news around 3 am this morning.

But if you look at the Lord's ministry this is the event that immediately preceded His ministry beginning.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
Christ The Head Joins Church The Body Rapture Soon We Hope! 🥳

 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
The Day of Atonement in Daniel

Daniel 12:1 “Now at that [end] time Michael, the great [angelic] prince who stands guard over the children of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; but at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the Book [of Life], will be rescued. 2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake (resurrect), these to everlasting life, but some to disgrace and everlasting contempt (abhorrence).

This is a direct and very clear reference to the Day of Atonement. At the Feast of Trumpets the books are open. You have the book of life and if you are written in that book you will go to everlasting life. You have the book of death and if you are in that book you go to everlasting contempt. Then you have the book of sinners, those who are still not clearly in one book or the other.

When Jesus tells Sardis

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Many have been shocked that "blotting your name out of the book of life" is a possibility. Please note, blotting your name out of the book of life is not the same as writing it in the book of death. Suppose He said "he that overcomes will be raptured and will not be left behind". Suppose "being raptured" is equal to having your name in the book of life and in order for that to happen you must "overcome". If you do not overcome that doesn't mean your name is in the book of death, instead it means you are in the book of the sinners. A psychopath and sociopath would be those that would be in the book of death, the ones that go into eternal contempt. Overcomers are in the book of life. Everyone else hasn't been sorted yet and will be sorted out during the tribulation. They may be sheep that inherit the earth, they may turn out to be goats that go into the book of death, or they may overcome during the tribulation and be in the book of life.

Daniel 12:3 Those who are [spiritually] wise will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead many to righteousness, [will shine] like the stars forever and ever.

On the one hand this sounds like the raptured saints, but it also sounds like the story of the ten virgins with their lamps and five were wise and took oil with them.

4 But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the scroll until the end of time. Many will go back and forth and search anxiously [through the scroll], and knowledge [of the purpose of God as revealed by His prophets] will [greatly] increase.”

This is a prophecy that many see being fulfilled today. We have tools like Blue Letter Bible and Biblegateway that provide lexicons, concordances, Hebrew and Greek, and all kinds of commentaries to assist us in going back and forth through the word of God. I understand that some are frustrated by the study of the Bible as their are many bogus teachings and false teachers, but the reality is that knowledge has greatly increased.

If you are confused I would recommend you start with a few fundamental teachers that will give you a solid foundation in the word of God. Darby, Watchman Nee and Scofield. Are they perfect? No. Did they have erroneous teachings and issues in their own lives? Yes. The Fellowship of the Apostles is always the standard by which we measure everything, but these three will help you greatly to get into the word of God. Their teaching is not the word of God, but with a solid foundation you will understand how to read the word and you will avoid 95% of the false teachers and bogus teachings.

5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and behold, there stood two others, the one [angel] on this bank of the river and the other [angel] on that bank of the river. 6 And one said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be until the end of these wonders?” 7 And I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he held up his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and a half a time (three and a half years); and as soon as they finish shattering and crushing the power of the holy people, all these things will be finished.

This is a clear reference to the first half of the seven year tribulation and the ministry of the two witnesses.

8 As for me, I heard, but I did not understand; so I said, “My lord, what will be the outcome of these things?” 9 And the angel said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are concealed and sealed up until the end of time. 10 Many will be purged, purified (made white) and refined, but the wicked will behave wickedly. None of the wicked shall understand, but those who are [spiritually] wise will understand.


Jesus directly references this chapter in His discourse in Matthew 24 and this verse seems to be a direct reference to "no one knows the day or the hour". Jesus was speaking present tense at that time and here in Daniel we are told that the word will be sealed up until the end of time and only those who are "spiritually wise will understand". Isn't that what Jesus said when He explained what "no one" meant referring to Noah? Isn't that what his account of learning from the mistake of the Jewish leaders meant, that we need to be spiritually wise? Isn't this what He meant when He said some will be taken as close personal friends and He told us that He calls us friends because whatever He hears from the Father He tells us?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
Seal up the Scroll

Daniel 12:4 But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the scroll until the end of time.

Is this the scroll that John saw opened in Revelation? It is supposed to be sealed up until the end of time. The NT refers to the church age as "the end of days".

1Corinthians 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example and warning [to us]; they were written for our instruction [to admonish and equip us], upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

According to Paul the end of time has come to us.

Ephesians 1:9 He made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ, 10 with regard to the fulfillment of the times [that is, the end of history, the climax of the ages]—to bring all things together in Christ, [both] things in the heavens and things on the earth.

According to Paul He has made known to us the mystery regarding the fulfillment of the times, that is the end of time.

So then, when Jesus was in His earthly ministry the scroll was sealed up. But after having been crucified the scroll was opened. It was a mystery but it has been made known to us. Daniel told us it would be sealed until the end of times and according to Paul the church age is the end of time.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
Did the Feast of Trumpets in 2020/2021 signify the longest day and the start of Jacob's trouble, ten years preceding the triumphant return of Jesus Christ in Glory?

Feast of Trumpets -- 2020 -- Global shutdown of the economy due to the Pandemic. God was declaring a sabbath fast.

Feast of Trumpets -- 2021 -- Illegal mandates of the vaccine revealing a tyrannical control of the world's governments.

Feast of Trumpets -- 2022 -- Nordstream pipeline is blown up revealing we are headed for Armageddon and the world will hate the whore of Babylon and rise up and devour her flesh and replace the US dollar with the ten kings (BRICS).

Feast of Trumpets -- 2023 -- They are proclaiming peace and security as a clarion call in celebration of internation Peace day on the 21st. They are brokering a peace deal for Israel that would allow them to rebuild their temple in exchange for land on the 18th and 19th and they are confirming Agenda 2030, the covenant signed in 2015, strengthening it by controlling what you can buy or sell to enforce compliance. The defendants in the Whitmer kidnapping plot were acquitted and the false flag of the FBI (the deep state was exposed). Ken Paxton the AG in Texas who was fighting for election integrity and a secure border wall was acquitted on all 16 charges, exposing the deep states attempt to take over the US.

Day of Atonement -- 2020 Sept 27 Amy Coney Barrett nominated to the Supreme Court., World Covid death toll passes 1 million.

Day of Atonement -- 2021 Oct 16 FDA authorized use of Johnson and Johnson booster. ISIS suicide bombers kill 50 in mosque.

Day of Atonement -- 2022 Oct 5 Putin approves annexation of land in Ukraine. Musk renews bid to buy Twitter. US National Debt hits $31 Trillion.

Can you see the White Horse of the Antichrist riding with all the lies and deceit, the Red horse of War is riding, the Black horse of famine is riding with the US debt skyrocketing, and the pale green horse of the plague is riding. We can tie this plague to abortion in the US, Jonathan Cahn does a thorough job of showing the connection based on the Bible.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
Is the Great Earthquake, the opening of the sixth seal, on Tishrei 3?

Amos 1:1 The words of Amos, who was among the herdmen of Tekoa, which he saw concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash king of Israel, two years before the earthquake.

Uzziah and Jeroboam were two kings that depict the situation of the apostasy. Jeroboam caused the whole nation to sin by bringing in division. Uzziah was a very prosperous king who fell due to pride and became leprous, signifying rebellion. You can describe what Jeroboam did as a plague of rebellion, and of course what Uzziah did as a plague of rebellion. We are told that after these two die from this plague of rebellion the earthquake takes place. Amos is a book that tells us to prepare to meet our God. That is the message of the Feast of Trumpets, you have ten days to prepare for the Day of Atonement and your judgement.

Zechariah also refers to this earthquake:

14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Zechariah is prophesying of the great battle of Armageddon when Jesus steps down onto the Mount of Olives and the mountain is cleaved in two and says this is like the great earthquake at the time of Uzziah.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

So we can definitely compare the Lord stepping down on Mount of Olives to a great earthquake, but that cannot be a reference to the sixth seal which we know is opened prior to the Lord stepping down, just as the earthquake at the time of Uzziah was prior to this.

Matthew 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

We see great earthquakes associated with the resurrection of the dead.

Acts 16:26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

This also can be likened to a resurrection from the dead as the dead are kept in a holding cell.

Revelation 16:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

I have listed these verses here because I am wondering if the Feast of Trumpets was 2020/2021 with the Pandemic. It is called the concealed day and one thing you can say about this time is that everything was concealed. It was filled with lies and censorship and people hurling mud at each other. We had 1 million die from the plague by 2021 and we can compare this to Amos saying it was two years after Jeroboam and Uzziah died. Both of those kings are directly tied to the plague of rebellion which is likened to leprosy. Amos is talking about the Feast of Trumpets, Jacob's trouble and "preparing to meet your God" by calling to remembrance all of our sins that we need to repent of. Once again this could support 2020 being the start of Jacob's trouble and 2023 is two years after the kings died (by 2021 we had 1 million dead). This is marked by a great earthquake which could be a reference to the opening of the sixth seal. Zechariah says that the earthquake when Jesus steps down on the mount of Olives is like that, not that it is the same, but it is like the great earthquake. Amos is clearly talking about events leading up to the Day of Atonement and he starts with the great earthquake but says it was two days after the death of the two kings. My thought is that the longest day, the Feast of Trumpets, started Jacob's trouble with two kings dying, but what really kicks it off is two days later on Tishrei 3 with the great earthquake.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
Ecclesiastes 3:1 There is a season (a time appointed) for everything and a time for every delight and event or purpose under heaven—

There should be a time appointed for the sixth seal to be opened and for the rapture to take place.

One theory is that the Feast of Trumpets can take place on the same day as the day of Atonement on a jubilee year. We think Jesus started His ministry on such a day. He proclaimed the year of jubilee, but left off the second half which is the day of vengeance. So the thought is at the start of the 70th week He will do the same thing only this time it will be the Antichrist whose ministry begins and that proclaims the day of vengeance.

We have two different judgement seats, the Great White throne judgement but also the judgement seat of Christ which is like getting an award at the Olympics. I could see how that would be during the day of Atonement and also would be like blowing the trumpet to announce the beginning of the day of vengeance.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
Ecclesiastes 3:15 That which is has already been, and that which will be has already been, for God seeks what has passed by [so that history repeats itself].

The Lord revealed this with the rapture when He said it would be as the days of Noah and as the days of Lot.

Noah was in the Hebrews Hall of fame for faith, he was a preacher of righteousness. Lot was a righteous man. He is not listed in Hebrews 11, but even so, he was a righteous man.

I think if we examine these two we will see groups of Christians.

Noah was all in, building an ark that was a huge undertaking while also preaching righteousness and being scorned and mocked for many years. He is a marvelous example of what a Christian could be.

Lot was very successful in Sodom which was a very prosperous city. He was a city leader, perhaps a judge or elected official. By all measures we would view Lot very favorable prior to the destruction of Sodom. By comparison Noah was a little weird, even cult like. Lot on the other hand blended in with the world.

However, after the catastrophic event there is a big difference between them. Noah would have been greatly revered while Lot was shameful. He was the father of the Moabites, they were born out of incest and were never God's people, though Ruth was a Moabitess who got saved.

If I had a choice I would much rather be Noah, suffer a little mockery for awhile but enter eternity in glory. As for Lot all those things that once seemed to be pretty good, his honorable job, his success in Sodom, those would all seem to be shameful to me in eternity. Do you think in heaven Lot is going to tell anyone he used to be a big success in Sodom? I think the question will be "why didn't you leave Sodom sooner?"

Also, if Lot is such a big success, why did so few people listen to him? Read the story carefully, the people in Sodom tell him to shut up, and his two son in laws laugh at him, and his wife has her heart in Sodom and not with him. In the world you may think you have friends but you don't. You may think they respect you, but they don't.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113

🔴Biblical Catastrophe Slammed Libya!🔴Floods Continue to Hit China/Disasters On September 10-13, 2023
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
Let's consider Pearl Harbor

This is a great example of watching. They had not yet received the message that Japan was at war with the US though they were on heightened alert. The radar operator said it looked like a Japanese attack while the officer in charge thought it might just be commercial airlines. If you give the fleet a false alarm there will be some thousands of people made inconvenient and a few Admirals probably quite angry. On the other hand if you ignore this you could lose America the war in one fell swoop.

Here is what I think he should do.

1. Sound the alarm.

2. Call the airforce base immediately and tell them what is going on. They could send 3-4 scouts to go check it out while the rest of the pilots wait. The Japanese were 40-45 minutes away, the scouts would reach them in about 20 minutes. They will still get 20 minutes warning, plenty of time for the pilots to get into the air if they are already on standby.

3. Then call the Captains of the ships, it takes them 15 minutes to get their engines up and running before they can leave port. They should have started that process as soon as you sounded the alarm. Explain that the air force has sent four scouts to check it out and you will know in twenty minutes, by then they will be ready to leave if it is the Japanese and they will still have twenty minutes to get out of the port. If the pilots radio back that it is the Japanese you will sound the alarm of an attack again.

I can't see anyone getting upset with you doing this, also when the Japanese do arrive on the island they will run into the airforce about ten minutes from Pearl Harbor, and by the time they get to Pearl Harbor all the ships will be out at sea with every gun manned. We would have done much better at destroying both the Japanese air force and navy in that battle.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
Let me put forth a theory

I have always wondered if the Bema seat judgement and the Great White Throne judgement would both take place on the day of Atonement. This is when the books are open, those that are written in the book of life, those in the book of the dead and those in the book of the sinners.

So I have a theory of this Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement. Suppose you have ten transparencies,

On day 1 we have this worldwide pandemic that shuts down the economy according to Joel

On day 2 we have Ruth Bader Ginsburg dying and the illegal vaccine mandates. This is the longest day and by now everyone should see it is the Feast of Trumpets

On day 3 we have war in Ukraine, US spending out of control pushing the nations to get a new currency, Queen Elizabeth dies making Charles King and Red Heifers so Israel can rebuild the temple.

On day 4 we see Agenda 2030 being confirmed for seven years, we see the institution of a digital currency to control what people can buy or sell, and we see a peace treaty in which Israel will trade land for peace so they can build their temple. In the Hebrew calendar the priest changes into the white linen robes and goes into the temple chamber on this day to be guarded for seven days. However, what you are really looking at is ten years overlayed like these transparencies playing out in ten days. So yes, they go on the fourth day, but it is the fourth day of Atonement, that is when the day of judgement is.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
RAPTURE IMMEDIATELY - IT DON’T MATTER WHAT I'M SAYING IT MATTERS WHAT YOU'RE SEEING!

 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
To Take Peace from the Earth 09/19/2023

Russia wants to control the middle East, China wants Taiwan and N. Korea wants S. Korea.

All three will fall if they simply take out the US from the equation.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
I had a very interesting Dream

12 Now when Jesus heard that John [the Baptist] had been arrested and put in prison, He left for Galilee. 13 And leaving Nazareth, He went and settled in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the country of Zebulun and Naphtali. 14 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah:

15
“The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali,
By the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee [in the district] of the Gentiles—
16
“The people who were sitting (living) in [spiritual] darkness have seen a great Light,
And for those who were sitting (living) in the land and shadow of [spiritual and moral] death,
Upon them a Light has dawned.”


I have been praying and seeking for the signs we will see right before the tribulation begins. I have come to see that the Antichrist, a counterfeit of Jesus Christ, will have a ministry that in many ways mimics or imitates Jesus. One of those ways is "John the Baptist". Just as John prepared the way for the Lord's ministry I see Elon Musk having prepared the way for the Antichrist. He is a Satanist, and he has put everything in place for the mark of the beast.

In my dream I heard that Elon Musk had been arrested. It was so compelling that I got up and checked the news around 3 am this morning.

But if you look at the Lord's ministry this is the event that immediately preceded His ministry beginning.
I learned something very interesting related to this dream. One point I had failed to mention was that the news report about Elon Musk was from "Jane's" a military magazine. I heard this morning that Elon Musk is on a hit list that Ukraine has compiled. That is very interesting because it is hard to imagine that if he were arrested by the US he would be beheaded, at least not this early in the tribulation.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ.

2Corinthians 11:1 Would that ye could bear with me in a little foolishness: but indeed ye do bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy: for I espoused you to one husband, that I might present you as a pure virgin to Christ.

You don't have to have your mind transformed to know what this means. I saw Candace Owens talking to some girl about some online dating program. I gathered from the conversation that this girl was sleeping with many men and somehow there was a digital record of this on the internet from this forum. The girl said she would do what she wanted and later she would get married and she would just be up front with her husband that this is what she had done. Candace responded that men don't want to marry a woman who has that history because it is shameful. It was stunning to me once I understood what she was saying that this girl actually thought anyone would want to marry her. Here is where the deceit comes in, these girls know that there is a long line of men that want to have sex with them so they assume at any time they could marry one of them. How foolish and stupid.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve in his craftiness, your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity and the purity that is toward Christ.

And that brings us to some of these Tele evangelists and mega church pastors. The gospel is simple, Jesus rose from the dead, He is Lord, call on Him and He will save you, the Spirit will enter into you, and it will convict you of sin. Repent of that sin, the Lord's blood washes away all stains, and you can be transformed into the likeness of Jesus Christ. That is not what these crafty preachers teach. They focus on how God loves you, He died for you, and all you need to do is pray and you are forever saved. Do they talk about repenting of sins and pleading the blood of Jesus to cleanse you from all filthiness and all sins? No, instead they tell you that you have been forgiven as though this is once for all and there is no need to talk about sin, the flesh, the world, temptations, corruption, repentance or confession anymore. No one would buy such a gospel if they read the Bible. Every book in the NT talks about dealing with sins, the flesh, the world. No one graduates from this.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or if ye receive a different spirit, which ye did not receive, or a different gospel, which ye did not accept, ye do well to bear with him.

The Jesus the Bible talks about takes sin so seriously that He died for it, and not a simple, painless death. He was scourged with little rusty pieces of metal pulling out pieces of your flesh from your back. He was nailed to a cross to die a tortuous death that takes six hours. He did that because some of the sins that His blood was going to wash away were so horrific they deserved that punishment. But now this Jesus that these phony pastors preach pretends sin is no problem and we can ignore that and we can ignore various Bible verses condemning various sins like fornication, adultery, sorcery and lies?

5 For I reckon that I am not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.

There is one extremely common "tell" to these false teachers. They always make themselves out to be "the chiefest apostles" the "chiefest pastors", etc. They have the biggest ministry, the highest rated TV shows, private airplanes, etc. This is what I do, the minute I hear someone is such a big deal I completely ignore them. Here is my reasoning, if this guy really does have this highly rated show and is such a big deal if he says anything significant everyone will hear it and I'll get it from my network that I listen to. I'm not saying that this approach is perfect, I'm not saying that having a best selling book is proof that you are a fraud. What I am saying is if you have a best selling book I'll hear about it through the grapevine if it is of the Lord. But if I ignore everyone who makes themself out to be a big deal I'll avoid wasting my time on the phonies. Instead if I see someone who is a nobody, someone no one would listen to, but they are sharing what they have despite that because they feel they have to, that is who I will listen to with an open mind to the Lord.

6 But though I be rude in speech, yet am I not in knowledge; nay, in every way have we made this manifest unto you in all things.

I was listening to one sister who had a dream from the Lord and in two different dreams it became very clear she was not very well educated. She was mispronouncing simple terms. But she also referred to a scientific principle in my area of expertise which I had never heard of. I have a graduate degree with 75 hours of post graduate work. So I checked this out and it was valid! I was stunned, I have been teaching this subject for many years, how could she know this? It was proof to me that her dream was from the Lord.

7 Or did I commit a sin in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I preached to you the gospel of God for nought?

It is a basic human principle, that people value something based on what they had to pay for it.

8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them that I might minister unto you; 9 and when I was present with you and was in want, I was not a burden on any man; for the brethren, when they came from Macedonia, supplied the measure of my want; and in everything I kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.

What a stark contrast to the prosperity gospel preachers, they tell you the blessing you receive will be based on how much seed you sow. They tell you there is a direct relationship between how much you give to their ministry to how much you will be blessed. How can you be so naive to not see through the scam? At the very least you should see that these ones are nothing like the NT apostles and disciples. The Lord Jesus said foxes have holes but He has nowhere to lay His head.

10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this glorying in the regions of Achaia. 11 Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth. 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them that desire an occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

What hypocrisy! They are attacking Paul for trying to bilk the believers when he didn't take a dime from them. They are claiming it is some kind of elaborate scam. However, Paul is choosing to be in total poverty so that they won't have an occasion to say "see, he is asking for money" and at the same time his hope is that the example he sets may make it very hard for these scam artists to operate in the future.

13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for even Satan fashioneth himself into an angel of light. 15 It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
25,939
4,825
113
For ye bear with a man, if he bringeth you into bondage, if he devoureth you, if he taketh you captive, if he exalteth himself, if he smiteth you on the face.

Every cult is like this.

22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. 23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as one beside himself) I more; in labors more abundantly, in prisons more abundantly, in stripes above measure, in deaths oft. 24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. 25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day have I been in the deep; 26 in journeyings often, in perils of rivers, in perils of robbers, in perils from my countrymen, in perils from the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in labor and travail, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. 28 Besides those things that are without, there is that which presseth upon me daily, anxiety for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is caused to stumble, and I burn not? 30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things that concern my weakness.

Enough with the gold chains, luxury cars, and mansions. This is what you should be looking at on their resume. I don't want to know how much money they have, I want to know what price they have paid.