Carried on discussion, Is it condemnation or otherwise-->Death Penalty

[violakat]

I another person started discussing situations, such as the death penalty, etc. So as to not derail the thread, I've decided to start a new thread on this discussion.

Me: "If you knew you would be stoned to death for adultery, would you be more likely to commit it?"

His Response: "It doesn't seem to stop murder in our culture."

My Response: "The thing is, I don't usually see murderers get killed until maybe years down the road, if even then. And instead, those waiting for death row, end up in prison, living the good life quite frequently. And then frequently, their judgement get overturned. Now, if our culture actually showed they meant what they said when it came to crimes, I think you would see a lot of change."

His response back: "I've heard both arguments: yours in this post, and the one Jesus uses when He writes in the sand."
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So now, the discussion continue.

That woman came with a repentant heart, and the very people condemning her were quite likely also committing the sin with her. When a person refuses to repent, God does not exonerate their sins. Instead, they are still condemned to Hell, until such time they chose to repent from their sins. And for those who accepted Christ as Savior, God doesn't let us do whatever we want, without having to face the consequences. Yes, we do receive forgiveness, but most of the time, we still have to face the consequences, as they are already in play. For example, someone who drives drunk and as a result, has serious wreck that kills his child. He may plead to God with a repentant heart, and God will forgive him, but the consequences are still there, and he has to live with it.

 

[HEIsRiSen]

I think part of it is that capital punishment is frowned upon by many in our culture nowadays. Somewhere along the line people's attitude changed about executions and that is where the penitentiares came into play. The word penitentiary derives from the word penance (or punishment for sin). Rather than killing a person in their sin and their soul being condemned to judgement, we started imprisioning them to bring them to repentance. I suppose they expected that the solitude of a prision cell would lead a person to introspection and possibly turn them towards God in repentance for their sin.

 

[violakat]

I don't have a problem with prisons, except that so many are really a joke. People aren't being punished for their sins, instead they are being rewarded. And I realize, that this is not all, but there are a lot that are this way.

 

[jimmydiggs]

The point of the sand was not to nullify Law.

 

[HEIsRiSen]

I don't have a problem with prisons, except that so many are really a joke. People aren't being punished for their sins, instead they are being rewarded. And I realize, that this is not all, but there are a lot that are this way.

Are they being rewarded or are they just not being punished severely enough in your opinion? I would say it is a stretch to call prison a reward in any aspect, to have your freedom taken away and to lose your name and be given a number is no reward if you ask me.

 

[violakat]

Are they being rewarded or are they just not being punished severely enough in your opinion? I would say it is a stretch to call prison a reward in any aspect, to have your freedom taken away and to lose your name and be given a number is no reward if you ask me.

When they get to watch shows that would make a trucker blush, male prisoners allowed to harass women guards and encouraged by male guards to do so, (I'm not going into why they are there, that's a whole other can of worms.), then yeah, that is more of a reward then a punishment. Yes, they are not allowed to leave the prison, and sometimes that can cause a person to change their ways. But more often then not, prisons where prisoners are pretty much allowed to get away with everything are not going to change people.

 

[HEIsRiSen]

These things that you speak of are new to me. Do you or have you worked in one of these so called "prisons"? I'm not arguing against you Viola, I would definitely agree that they are not strict enough with inmate discipline.

 

[violakat]

These things that you speak of are new to me. Do you or have you worked in one of these so called "prisons"? I'm not arguing against you Viola, I would definitely agree that they are not strict enough with inmate discipline.

this is stuff that gets reported in the media. Quite frequently. And again, I'm not saying this is all prisons, just a lot of them.

 

[Precious_Sunflower]

Maybe if the prisions would have gotten back to how it was during the medieval times when one got given only bread and water, and put behind iron poles, being in a cold cell, perhaps this would have made most prision lives less tempting with going back there, or not wanting to be going there at all?

 

[RedTent]

We are Christians who want to follow God. If we decide that we want to put on the "whole armor of God", then shouldn't we search the bible enough to find out what God says about how to handle those who murder?

If you believe that the God of the OT doesn't count, then I guess He doesn't say much. We aren't to judge, we are to love and forgive. But if we love, would we let people loose that we absolutely know for sure would murder?

In the OT, it says if a person is a murderer, to protect God's people then the murderer needs to be executed. You better be absolutely positive this person is a deliberate murderer, and if anyone accuses an innocent man, he himself is a murderer.

If a person is a murderer, he is actually dead. He cannot live forever as God's people can.

God loves us, and wants us safe, to live in a good safe land.

 

[BarlyGurl]

That woman came with a repentant heart, and the very people condemning her were quite likely also committing the sin with her.

Except when using this scenario.... NOWHERE does it say the woman came with a repentant heart... It says they brought her.The men who brought her did not condemn her... they stated she was caught in the act, suggested the law and asked Jesus what he would do about it. That scenario has not about the death penalty but about the JOT and TITTLE of the law and the barrenness of the pharisees. That the men might have been the 2nd parties... is speculation... that they were subverting the law by bringing only the woman ... that is evident. It was the pharisees who condemned themselves.

 

[violakat]

I forgot she was caught in the act.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Prisons in America are a JOKE, except for the fact that they can't leave... they are fed 3 meals a day, have hot showers, given clothing (which is cleaned for them) and jobs, have medical and dental benefits, allowed vices such as smoking and pornography, engage in sex, allowed visiters and mail, some have tv's and computers, there are entertainment rooms with televison, radio and movies, sometimes games like ping pong, fuze-ball, equipped gyms and sport fields, scheduled entertainment... and it is paid for by taxpayers. If american prisons were a step above animal shelters where merely surviving incarceration was considered a monumental blessing... then we would have a proper crime deterring system. It is a historical fact that the more"improved" the prison system has gotten... the higher the crime rate has become and re-offending is the NORM not the exception., yet still millions more tax $$'s are funneled into social re-entry programs that benefit these felons beyond what any impoverished, low income or homeless person has access to.... college tuition grants, subsidized work programs... on and on... rant over... huff.

oh wait... the environment is also climate controlled year round and telephone calls to harrass people outside the fence!!!

 

[JGPS]

Are they being rewarded or are they just not being punished severely enough in your opinion? I would say it is a stretch to call prison a reward in any aspect, to have your freedom taken away and to lose your name and be given a number is no reward if you ask me.

Sadly, I in fact personally know people who see prison as a reward. They find it better than working, and they don't have to worry about their home, budget, or food.


Worse, I know rather more unsavoury people who used prison as a 'crime training school' to pick up advise and refine their techniques while they where there. That's actually rather worse than a reward.

 

[JGPS]

Just as a side-note to violakat, in the future it may be helpful to put a hyperlink to your new thread in the thread you're splitting off from so that those of us following it can follow more easily.

 

[Precious_Sunflower]

What I think is bad with doing the death penalty, is when even Christians when looking at the person becoming excecuted cheers in great joy when the electric chair kills him/her. I don't understand what is so funny about killing someone, and yet there are Christians who finds a great satisfaction in seeing murderers getting excecuted.

Also what I find interesting is when serial killers like Son of Sam becomes Saved. Son of Sam is sharing about the gospel to his fellow prisoners. He is on fire for Jesus Christ, and has got transformed from his past as a serial killer to a new man in Christ. Even Paul in the bible was seen as a murderer, but once he met with Jesus Christ, he got given another chance as well as he became forgiven through Him. Those murderers needs Salvation as much as everyone else.

 

[JGPS]

You're right, the death penalty has to be about efficiently protecting people from criminals, there isn't really any need for any particular joy in the death itself.