Critical Race Theory

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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,766
1,915
113
#1
Let's talk about racism and what idealogies are being taught in the culture today.

God teaches us that we are all equal in value and all created in His image.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Genesis 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

God sees the heart and soul not the color of skin or the race of the individual.

So how does the Christian respond to racism or the use of race in a discussion or debate. In order to achieve this we must understand the teachings that have emerged to what we see today.

I will first define my terms:

Critical theory- Critical theory as it is known today can be traced to Karl Marx's critique of the economy and society put forth in his many works. It is inspired greatly by Marx's theoretical formulation of the relationship between economic base and ideological superstructure and tends to focus on how power and domination operate, in particular, in the realm of the superstructure.

Critical theory is a social theory oriented toward critiquing and changing society as a whole, in contrast to traditional theory oriented only to understanding or explaining it. Critical theories aim to dig beneath the surface of social life and uncover the assumptions that keep us from a full and true understanding of how the world works.

Marxism: the system of economic and political thought developed by Karl Marx, along with Friedrich Engels, especially the doctrine that the state throughout history has been a device for the exploitation of the masses by a dominant class, that class struggle has been the main agency of historical change, and that the capitalist system, containing from the first the seeds of its own decay, will inevitably, after the period of the dictatorship of the laborer, be superseded by a socialist order and a classless society.

Critical Race Theory- the view that race, instead of being biologically grounded and natural, is socially constructed and that race, as a socially constructed concept, functions as a means to maintain the interests of the white population that constructed it. According to CRT, racial inequality emerges from the social, economic, and legal differences that white people create between “races” to maintain elite white interest in labour markets and politics and as such create the circumstances that give rise to poverty and criminality in many minority communities.

Race Card: race card is idiomatic phrase that refers to the exploitation of either racist or anti-racist attitudes in the audience.

Intersectionality: the complex, cumulative way in which the effects of multiple forms of discrimination (such as racism, sexism, and classism) combine, overlap, or intersect especially in the experiences of marginalized individuals or groups.

Crenshaw introduced the theory of intersectionality, the idea that when it comes to thinking about how inequalities persist, categories like gender, race, and class are best understood as overlapping and mutually constitutive rather than isolated and distinct.

Identity Politics: politics in which groups of people having a particular racial, religious, ethnic, social, or cultural identity tend to promote their own specific interests or concerns without regard to the interests or concerns of any larger political group

Deconstructionism: a critical dismantling of tradition and traditional modes of thought.

Reparations for slavery: is the idea that some form of compensatory payment needs to be made to the descendants of Africans who had been enslaved as part of the Atlantic Slave Trade.

Ad Hominem: This occurs when someone attacks a person instead of responding to the argument.

Critical theory can find its roots in Karl Marx's theory that we have called Marxism. Basically in a simple explanation it is the idea that one group of people will in history struggle with another group of people. Whoever's ideas win becomes the dominant class. And this dominate class uses its dominance to control the minorities.

Critical race theory came out of the civil rights movement by more radical groups like the Black Panthers or Malcom X. This theory has impacted our colleges, politics, entertainment, social media, and news outlets. This is where the idea for reparations of slavery to its descendants comes from.

Intersectionality is what gives the race card its power. The race card will have a immaterial value system connected to it that gives the individual more credibility when speaking on different issues or a more sympathetic value.

Where as if the race card is played against you then your being judged on your immaterial value of credibility to speak, to judge, or if you deserve a sympathetic response.

Notice critical race theory is connected to other theories like the Latino or Female critical theories. Each have their own card under the Intersectionality score system.

Here is a fun example below. To see your intersectionality value take the quick tally survey.

https://intersectionalityscore.com/

Me being a white, straight, male, Christian I score a 11 making me more privileged than 90% of others.

Your intersectionality score: 11
You are more privileged than 90% of others.
Please give more to those less fortunate.

So I receive the ad Hominem fallacy all the time. For example on social media when I defend the unborn the radical feminists will use the Gender card and because I am a Male then this somehow affects my credibility to speak on such issues.

Or if I was to speak against social welfare programs and how they actually hurt the minority groups. The minority will use the race card against me.

Or vice versa if the minority wants to gain a political or social advantage in the debate they will play on their race, gender, LGBTQ status etc. Knowing they have more value than me and try to use that idea to ignore my actual argument.

You see this idealogy play out in politics all the time called Identity politics. Where the politician will play their card to gain votes or use the card to devalue other candidates while using the ad Hominem fallacy.

These are methods to help deconstructionism move forward as each group tries to degrade the system they disagree with. Rather it be race, religion, gender, laws, philosophical issues and so on.

Conclusion:

How does the church respond to such issues? Well first is to learn the idealogy behind such issues. Second would be not to adopt the destructive ideology into the church.

( example Southern Baptist Convention Resolution promotes Critical Race Theory and Intersectionality as ‘analytical tools that can aid’ Christians. http://capstonereport.com/2019/06/1...tical-race-theory-and-intersectionality/32583)

Ignore the denomination but focus on the idealogy being included in any church. As explained above these ideas are not Biblical and are rooted in destructive elements that if given space to mix they explode.

Once learned, defended against and thirdly now put the knowledge gained into action and begin to spot such fallacies and illogical ideas. And using this knowledge to stand more boldly for truth.

Learn, defend and act.
Stand bold
Hold the line
We are stronger together as one race, the human race and one body the body of Christ.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
7,661
2,760
113
#2
?

I think sometimes you cant speak on issues you have never experienced yourself. You can advocate, but if its not your testimony then some people might not see it as credible. That shouldnt be a problem for you but its just how others perceive it.

For example. i used to think how could Jesus know how I feel. He's male, Im female. He lived in 1st century Judea, I live in 21st century new zealand. He grew up in judaism but I never experienced any strict religion. How can we relate? JEsus looks beyond these superficial differences cos he sends us the helper, the holy spirit. The holy spirit is not someone in the flesh, so those flesh things dont matter.

The thing is Jesus and me (and you) are both human and experience things like sorrow and suffering. And what damage sin can do.

Some of us, because we are born into things like poverty or do not belong in the rich, ruling elite of society, will not experience life in the same way as certain rich people do, just like the rich young ruler couldnt understand what Jesus was talking about when he said give away your possessions, or the rich man who got sent to hades and saw that poor Lazarus was in paradise. Some people, being so priveliged and living in a bubble, dont know what its like to be truly poor. They have never had to want for anything and so those that a poor assume they dont understand. It is a dangerous assumption, but i think quite a few would turn a blind eye like those who passed the man on the road except the good samaritan.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
10,409
2,386
113
#3
lets get REAL, we are ALL, each and everyone of us are 'racist',
even if we don't know what it really means...
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#4
lets get REAL, we are ALL, each and everyone of us are 'racist',
even if we don't know what it really means...
Might be true but "race" is a man made social construct, there are no such thing as "races" we all bleed red.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
10,409
2,386
113
#5
oh my, yes, we, most of us know that we all 'bleed-red', but alas, most will 'never' accept this Truth'...
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,766
1,915
113
#6
?

I think sometimes you cant speak on issues you have never experienced yourself. You can advocate, but if its not your testimony then some people might not see it as credible. That shouldnt be a problem for you but its just how others perceive it.

For example. i used to think how could Jesus know how I feel. He's male, Im female. He lived in 1st century Judea, I live in 21st century new zealand. He grew up in judaism but I never experienced any strict religion. How can we relate? JEsus looks beyond these superficial differences cos he sends us the helper, the holy spirit. The holy spirit is not someone in the flesh, so those flesh things dont matter.

The thing is Jesus and me (and you) are both human and experience things like sorrow and suffering. And what damage sin can do.

Some of us, because we are born into things like poverty or do not belong in the rich, ruling elite of society, will not experience life in the same way as certain rich people do, just like the rich young ruler couldnt understand what Jesus was talking about when he said give away your possessions, or the rich man who got sent to hades and saw that poor Lazarus was in paradise. Some people, being so priveliged and living in a bubble, dont know what its like to be truly poor. They have never had to want for anything and so those that a poor assume they dont understand. It is a dangerous assumption, but i think quite a few would turn a blind eye like those who passed the man on the road except the good samaritan.
If you are speaking facts without personal experience, what is there to discredit? Does personal experience help? Maybe. Or it could provide the opposite. A emotionally based response instead of a factual and logical response can be just as bad.

The Bible teaches us to humble ourselves and to serve others. Do I need to have a devastating illness to know how a person who does have a devastating illness feels? Obviously not, because by observation I see how they feel and can research what the illness does and has done to others. I can ask them their perspective also. It could help me feel more compassionate but regardless scripture tells me to feel that way anyways.

To be technical the rich young ruler did understand Jesus. As to why he wasn't willing to let everything go. He knew by observation what the poor was experiencing. And wasn't willing to live that way. Wasn't willing to drop that idol for Jesus.

They passed the man on the road not out of ignorance but out of selfish pride. They thought of themselves better than the man. There is no critical theory that can try to explain the world of society without addressing sin. The only true worldview is the Biblical worldview. That is the only view that should be critiquing and changing society.

If I failed to address anything. What specifically was you disagreeing with in the original OP?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,766
1,915
113
#7
lets get REAL, we are ALL, each and everyone of us are 'racist',
even if we don't know what it really means...
Are you born racist or is racist nurtured? Nature vs nurture. Which is it or both and explain?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
7,661
2,760
113
#8
If you are speaking facts without personal experience, what is there to discredit? Does personal experience help? Maybe. Or it could provide the opposite. A emotionally based response instead of a factual and logical response can be just as bad.

The Bible teaches us to humble ourselves and to serve others. Do I need to have a devastating illness to know how a person who does have a devastating illness feels? Obviously not, because by observation I see how they feel and can research what the illness does and has done to others. I can ask them their perspective also. It could help me feel more compassionate but regardless scripture tells me to feel that way anyways.

To be technical the rich young ruler did understand Jesus. As to why he wasn't willing to let everything go. He knew by observation what the poor was experiencing. And wasn't willing to live that way. Wasn't willing to drop that idol for Jesus.

They passed the man on the road not out of ignorance but out of selfish pride. They thought of themselves better than the man. There is no critical theory that can try to explain the world of society without addressing sin. The only true worldview is the Biblical worldview. That is the only view that should be critiquing and changing society.

If I failed to address anything. What specifically was you disagreeing with in the original OP?
I wasnt disagreeing a question mark does not mean disagreeing, its questioning peoples assumptions. Do you know how it really feels to actually suffer a mental illness. Not experience someone else have one but to actually suffer it yourself. Day after day?

How about, not being able to afford to pay rent and facing homelessness. Or not have clean water. Or not being able to speak a language, or being shut out of things just cos of the way you look. Day after day. Or the first time you meet someone, people always ask you where you are from, as if you dont belong. Day after day?

Many people, being priveliged, dont experience this, just as able bodied people actually dont know what its like to be disabled. They might feel sorry or pity but they actually dont know the struggles. And many people dont bother to ask or just assume everyone else is like themselves. Cos thats all they see.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
7,661
2,760
113
#9
I recall reading a memoir about what it was like to work for Jacqueline Kennedy as a secret service agent. Secret service agents are there to protect the presidents and their families right. But they can also be like servants catering to the presidents families whims. Now mrs kennedy was very used to a wealthy lifestyle and didnt see she had to change just cos her husband became president. So she was always going on overseas trips and the agents had to give up everything and go along just to protect her.

She once asked an agent an innocent question which was to play tennis with her. He had never played tennis before, or water skiied. Well mrs kenedy simply was shocked and said I thought everyone knew how to water ski. Well no mrs kennedy not everyone knows how to water ski. Or play tennis. Lol
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,766
1,915
113
#10
I wasnt disagreeing a question mark does not mean disagreeing, its questioning peoples assumptions. Do you know how it really feels to actually suffer a mental illness. Not experience someone else have one but to actually suffer it yourself. Day after day?

How about, not being able to afford to pay rent and facing homelessness. Or not have clean water. Or not being able to speak a language, or being shut out of things just cos of the way you look. Day after day. Or the first time you meet someone, people always ask you where you are from, as if you dont belong. Day after day?

Many people, being priveliged, dont experience this, just as able bodied people actually dont know what its like to be disabled. They might feel sorry or pity but they actually dont know the struggles. And many people dont bother to ask or just assume everyone else is like themselves. Cos thats all they see.
So if you dont disagree with the OP then you was bringing up a new topic? I'm just trying to see if your post is connected to the OP in any way because I'm not seeing how assumptions are related.

In less you mean because I have never been a slave then I lose credibility to speak on slavery. Then by this example I can see how it relates to the critical race theory.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,904
4,956
113
#11
[QUOTE="Roughsoul1991, post: 4015946, member: 245751"] Critical Race Theory- the view that race, instead of being biologically grounded and natural, is socially constructed and that race, as a socially constructed concept, functions as a means to maintain the interests of the white population that constructed it.[/QUOTE]
This is patently false since the facts do not bear it out. This is typical bogus Marxist nonsense.

1. According to the Bible there is only race -- the human race, all having descended from Adam through Noah and his three sons. And in Christ, all racial distinctions are cancelled within the Body of Christ.

2. At the same time there is no denying that there are distinct ethnic groups on earth, and if we use skin color as a criterion, then we have white, black, brown, yellow and red (to keep it simple). And there is no question that all these groups practice their own brands of racism. The Chinese have long regarded Westerners as barbarians, and guess who calls the shots these days?

3. There is no question that white racism and segregation (based upon white racism) were historical facts in the United States (particularly in the South), and even Christians in the South deceived themselves into thinking that this was God-ordained. The Civil War did nothing to change all that. That war was totally stupid and hundreds of thousands died in vain, not to mention the financial and social costs.

4. There is also no question that since the desegregation laws went into effect, there was a significant change in the status of black Americans, and that more recently they had been making real progress in every field, and race was gradually become a non-issue.

5. But there is also no question that since Barack Obama ran for office, the color of one's skin became more important than what a person was and what his or her accomplisments actually were. In fact Obama was elected on the basis of race, not qualifications, and he appointed his key personnel on the basis of race. And since then Black Racism has become a serious problem in America.

6. Talk about reparations for slavery at this point is also plain stupid, since every ethnic group could be asking for reparations. The Native Americans, would be next, followed by the Japanese who were interred during WWII, and the Chinese who were indentured laborers long before that, etc.

Had Abraham Lincoln had a mind, he could have offered slave owners generous compensation for each and every slave (since there was actual economic loss), and also given each slave a generous settlement to move North and start afresh (and that would have been a requirement to avoid racial conflict in the South). It would have cost the government far less than what it cost for the war. And he could have also made fair settlements with the Native Americans at that time. But now people should move on since there is no going back.

7. It should be clear to the American public at this point that the Left-Liberal politicians (the Democrats) have only ONE GOAL -- they want power so that they can destroy America and make it another third world Socialist dump. They do not care for the blacks, and Obama and the Democrat Black Caucus did absolutely nothing for their so-called black *brethren* all the time they had power. It is time for black Americans to wake up and see that they have been used for decades, and it is time to break that cycle.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,766
1,915
113
#12
[QUOTE="Roughsoul1991, post: 4015946, member: 245751"] Critical Race Theory- the view that race, instead of being biologically grounded and natural, is socially constructed and that race, as a socially constructed concept, functions as a means to maintain the interests of the white population that constructed it.
This is patently false since the facts do not bear it out. This is typical bogus Marxist nonsense.

1. According to the Bible there is only race -- the human race, all having descended from Adam through Noah and his three sons. And in Christ, all racial distinctions are cancelled within the Body of Christ.

2. At the same time there is no denying that there are distinct ethnic groups on earth, and if we use skin color as a criterion, then we have white, black, brown, yellow and red (to keep it simple). And there is no question that all these groups practice their own brands of racism. The Chinese have long regarded Westerners as barbarians, and guess who calls the shots these days?

3. There is no question that white racism and segregation (based upon white racism) were historical facts in the United States (particularly in the South), and even Christians in the South deceived themselves into thinking that this was God-ordained. The Civil War did nothing to change all that. That war was totally stupid and hundreds of thousands died in vain, not to mention the financial and social costs.

4. There is also no question that since the desegregation laws went into effect, there was a significant change in the status of black Americans, and that more recently they had been making real progress in every field, and race was gradually become a non-issue.

5. But there is also no question that since Barack Obama ran for office, the color of one's skin became more important than what a person was and what his or her accomplisments actually were. In fact Obama was elected on the basis of race, not qualifications, and he appointed his key personnel on the basis of race. And since then Black Racism has become a serious problem in America.

6. Talk about reparations for slavery at this point is also plain stupid, since every ethnic group could be asking for reparations. The Native Americans, would be next, followed by the Japanese who were interred during WWII, and the Chinese who were indentured laborers long before that, etc.

Had Abraham Lincoln had a mind, he could have offered slave owners generous compensation for each and every slave (since there was actual economic loss), and also given each slave a generous settlement to move North and start afresh (and that would have been a requirement to avoid racial conflict in the South). It would have cost the government far less than what it cost for the war. And he could have also made fair settlements with the Native Americans at that time. But now people should move on since there is no going back.

7. It should be clear to the American public at this point that the Left-Liberal politicians (the Democrats) have only ONE GOAL -- they want power so that they can destroy America and make it another third world Socialist dump. They do not care for the blacks, and Obama and the Democrat Black Caucus did absolutely nothing for their so-called black *brethren* all the time they had power. It is time for black Americans to wake up and see that they have been used for decades, and it is time to break that cycle.[/QUOTE]

Agreed as to why I made the post to show how these ideas are illogical and unbiblical.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,829
1,699
113
Texas
#13
Interesting post.
I think that as Christians we should understand what we are up against.
The battle for the conscience of Western culture is exactly this, Marxist world view vs Christian world view.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
28
#14
?

I think sometimes you cant speak on issues you have never experienced yourself. You can advocate, but if its not your testimony then some people might not see it as credible. That shouldnt be a problem for you but its just how others perceive it.

For example. i used to think how could Jesus know how I feel. He's male, Im female. He lived in 1st century Judea, I live in 21st century new zealand. He grew up in judaism but I never experienced any strict religion. How can we relate? JEsus looks beyond these superficial differences cos he sends us the helper, the holy spirit. The holy spirit is not someone in the flesh, so those flesh things dont matter.

The thing is Jesus and me (and you) are both human and experience things like sorrow and suffering. And what damage sin can do.

Some of us, because we are born into things like poverty or do not belong in the rich, ruling elite of society, will not experience life in the same way as certain rich people do, just like the rich young ruler couldnt understand what Jesus was talking about when he said give away your possessions, or the rich man who got sent to hades and saw that poor Lazarus was in paradise. Some people, being so priveliged and living in a bubble, dont know what its like to be truly poor. They have never had to want for anything and so those that a poor assume they dont understand. It is a dangerous assumption, but i think quite a few would turn a blind eye like those who passed the man on the road except the good samaritan.
Dear Lanolin: One month after my 50th wedding anniversary my wife died of cancer. One of the must difficult times that came to me is the scripture saying "if a wife or husband should die then the remaining spouse is free to marry ". How could anyone suggest I could ever be with anyone else ? Jesus did.

The point is, Jesus taught us that in the next life there is neither male nor female, but we are all the same in the eyes of God
I will remind you of what you referred to in your post. How can you know if you have never experienced it.

My comfort comes from knowing that He never takes anything away without giving you something greater. Something greater than my wife? I know His word is true. We have know idea what we are in for.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
7,661
2,760
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#15
So if you dont disagree with the OP then you was bringing up a new topic? I'm just trying to see if your post is connected to the OP in any way because I'm not seeing how assumptions are related.

In less you mean because I have never been a slave then I lose credibility to speak on slavery. Then by this example I can see how it relates to the critical race theory.
Yes basically not that you lose credibility but that people dont see you as a credible unless you experienced it, they are more likely to listen and take note of someone who testifies they were a slave or former slave owner. First hand experience.

Another example, I cant speak for the holocaust victims or war victims or families as I never experienced it in my family, it didnt affect me in the way that it directly affected other people. I can understand or empathise on general pain and suffering, but at some remove. I cannot assume to know just how it impacted on their lives. I can read diaries and talk to people, but I cant speak for them. I must let them speak for themselves. What I can do is give them space to share what their experience was and not silence them.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
7,661
2,760
113
#16
Congrats on never being a slave though. How was it for you to have always known freedom?
Jesus rescued me from spiritual slavery to Satan so am always thankful I was set free from bondage.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
7,661
2,760
113
#17
Dear Lanolin: One month after my 50th wedding anniversary my wife died of cancer. One of the must difficult times that came to me is the scripture saying "if a wife or husband should die then the remaining spouse is free to marry ". How could anyone suggest I could ever be with anyone else ? Jesus did.

The point is, Jesus taught us that in the next life there is neither male nor female, but we are all the same in the eyes of God
I will remind you of what you referred to in your post. How can you know if you have never experienced it.

My comfort comes from knowing that He never takes anything away without giving you something greater. Something greater than my wife? I know His word is true. We have know idea what we are in for.
The holy spirit is the comforter...a lot of people dont really see, its because the holy spirit is invisible.
For many people the holy spirit is embodied in the role of a wife and mother. Remember adam had a help meet? Made just for him?
jesus always referred to the holy spirit as the helper.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
7,661
2,760
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#18
On barack obama...reading his memoirs etc, Its dangerous to assume he was elected just cos of his race. Actually his mother was white and his dad was kenyan, so do people just assume that white people voted and kenyans voted just cos he was related to them? Actually when he went on his campaigns what he did mostly was LISTEN to people. He had people voting for him (from all different ethnicities) cos he actually listened to their needs and was prepared to do something about it.

Whether he was successful or not is up to you to decide, but certainly many people look past race and saw a man prepared to do something about many of the issues facing their nation. Same with the current president.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,766
1,915
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#19
Yes basically not that you lose credibility but that people dont see you as a credible unless you experienced it, they are more likely to listen and take note of someone who testifies they were a slave or former slave owner. First hand experience.

Another example, I cant speak for the holocaust victims or war victims or families as I never experienced it in my family, it didnt affect me in the way that it directly affected other people. I can understand or empathise on general pain and suffering, but at some remove. I cannot assume to know just how it impacted on their lives. I can read diaries and talk to people, but I cant speak for them. I must let them speak for themselves. What I can do is give them space to share what their experience was and not silence them.
Then you see my reasoning that if "basically not that you lose credibility but that people dont see you as a credible unless you experienced it" if I do not lose credibility off of experience but yet people judge credibility off of experience then this is self contradicting.

Abraham Lincoln, a white man, powerful, rich, and never was a slave, advocated against slavery and ended up legally freeing the slaves for all states. Was his thoughts or experience less credible? Or do we judge off what he says as credible? Was what he said factual, morally right, or correspond to reality, is what the individual said line up to a Biblical worldview?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,766
1,915
113
#20
Congrats on never being a slave though. How was it for you to have always known freedom?
Jesus rescued me from spiritual slavery to Satan so am always thankful I was set free from bondage.
According to how you define slave. Physically or spiritually. Physically by another human being, no I haven't.