Dangers of Feminism
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A
Well, now you are speaking as a Christian feminist which itself is a brave position to take in academia amongst modern secular feminists of the type described in the New Catholic Encyclopedia.
To be truthful, what fair minded person could disagree with such a fair societal position that seeks to normalize a genuine equality in society, economics, academia, etc...
However, we have to ask the difficult scientific question which is, "are there actual differences between men and women which need to be incorporated?"
This is not a minor point for it has real ramifications and begs questions such as are we to ignore scientific truth and reality to accomplish sociopolitical objectives? Should women join men in equal number on the front line of every infantry military battle? Should Harvard presidents be forced to resign for pointing out the scientific fact that female IQ bunches around the standard deviation bell curve while men's IQ is much more distributed? Etc...
And as it applies to Christianity, in what way does a position that agitates for "sameness" in seeking true equality between gender conflict with scripture?
These are important questions both for society and specifically us Christians.
To be truthful, what fair minded person could disagree with such a fair societal position that seeks to normalize a genuine equality in society, economics, academia, etc...
However, we have to ask the difficult scientific question which is, "are there actual differences between men and women which need to be incorporated?"
This is not a minor point for it has real ramifications and begs questions such as are we to ignore scientific truth and reality to accomplish sociopolitical objectives? Should women join men in equal number on the front line of every infantry military battle? Should Harvard presidents be forced to resign for pointing out the scientific fact that female IQ bunches around the standard deviation bell curve while men's IQ is much more distributed? Etc...
And as it applies to Christianity, in what way does a position that agitates for "sameness" in seeking true equality between gender conflict with scripture?
These are important questions both for society and specifically us Christians.
I think that gender in religion and gender in society are slightly different situations. On the one hand, we are certainly different and should embrace all that it involves. On the other, I don't see a problem of either gender taking on most roles in society if they are able to do it without significant modifications. For example, in the military, a woman have to meet the same requirements as a man, but her uniform and armor should be made to fit her. In certain situations, either gender becomes a liability and shouldn't be present. I think that active duty women in the military should be on the Depo shot to stop their cycles and prevent pregnancy because you can't risk military operations due of pregnancies or sanitation needs. Of course, if she is in a desk job, then that wouldn't apply. Those are the requirements of military life so either comply or don't sign up. But religious groups should get to set what roles gender plays in their worship as long as human rights are not being violated.
It's ignorant to ignore differences but bigoted to impose limitations that are common but not inherent. For example, most men are stronger than most women, but some women are stronger than some men. Most women are more nurturing than most men, but some men are more nurturing than some women. I hope that makes sense. It's just hard to get people to understand nuances to arguments as opposed to bumper-sticker slogans.
It's ignorant to ignore differences but bigoted to impose limitations that are common but not inherent. For example, most men are stronger than most women, but some women are stronger than some men. Most women are more nurturing than most men, but some men are more nurturing than some women. I hope that makes sense. It's just hard to get people to understand nuances to arguments as opposed to bumper-sticker slogans.
I have to agree with Rachel, that plagiarism is a serious crime, and if someone actually has two Master's degrees, in just about anything, I have to wonder how anyone would even consider posting an entire post without sourcing it. Here is an accurate definition of plagiarism.
Plagiarize - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Full Definition of PLAGIARIZE
Transitive verb
intransitive verb : to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source
I have an MDiv, and I feel guilty just thinking about copying and pasting anything without the source. I just posted on FB a funny post on bicycling and chocolate, and I even pot the source for it. On FB, where 90% of the "facts" are utter garbage.
In my opinion, it seems impossible anyone who has done graduate work would imagine copying and pasting without references. Even people without any formal education on this site usually post references. Zone, (who I miss terribly!) ALWAYS posted references for each and every thing she copied and pasted, small or big articles. She always let us know who wrote it, because plagiarism is lying and stealing. I thought that was the standard we were all going for.
I know from Rachel's link, that AgeofKnowledge has two Master's degrees. One is apparently an MDiv, which he posted in this forum, the other reference was in the Christian News Forum found on the link Rachel posted. However, (and my memory may be wrong!) I also remember him saying he had a Master's degree in International politics, when I voiced my opinion that many Americans do not know the world exists outside the USA. (And that is a real stereotype and not totally true, but it just seemed that so many of the end time posts were all about America, and people did not use the entire world to compile their data concerning whether we are in the end times or not!)
So perhaps that is the Master's degree he did all the statistics in? I would appreciate it if AgeOfKnowledge could clarify. Of course, don't give out the university and seminary where you studied, as that would be too much personal information. But I would appreciate, just for my own knowledge, what AoK studied, just so I can understand how someone with two Master's degrees could even consider posting someone else's materials without referencing.Or perhaps he could just admit he erred, and all is forgiven. If he doesn't want to discuss this in the forum, then just PM me. (And thanks in advance!)
I am not trying in any way to assassinate AoK character. I am just curious about his educational history. I do appreciate many of his posts, and his willingness to look at many sides of an issue, plus his sense of humour. And sorry to side track this thread.
(I even post references here when I have quoted a book. They really trained me well at my University for my undergrad and at my Seminary for my MDiv. LOL!)
Rachel I think was just a little outraged at catching a deception, and I do hope we will not lose any more people to banning. I am really against banning people (my personal opinion again!) unless they are actually proselytizing for some other cult or religion. The flavour of the forum gets lost when so many people get banned. I have run Christian forums in the past, and tried very hard not to ban people unless they were consistently abusive, or proselytizing.
PS I'm sorry for posting on this thread, when I said I would not. I have been following it, though, and I just wanted to support Rachel, who has been very upset, as a University student, when she found plagiarism.
Plagiarize - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Full Definition of PLAGIARIZE
Transitive verb
: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own
: use (another's production) without crediting the source
: use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive verb : to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source
In my opinion, it seems impossible anyone who has done graduate work would imagine copying and pasting without references. Even people without any formal education on this site usually post references. Zone, (who I miss terribly!) ALWAYS posted references for each and every thing she copied and pasted, small or big articles. She always let us know who wrote it, because plagiarism is lying and stealing. I thought that was the standard we were all going for.
I know from Rachel's link, that AgeofKnowledge has two Master's degrees. One is apparently an MDiv, which he posted in this forum, the other reference was in the Christian News Forum found on the link Rachel posted. However, (and my memory may be wrong!) I also remember him saying he had a Master's degree in International politics, when I voiced my opinion that many Americans do not know the world exists outside the USA. (And that is a real stereotype and not totally true, but it just seemed that so many of the end time posts were all about America, and people did not use the entire world to compile their data concerning whether we are in the end times or not!)
So perhaps that is the Master's degree he did all the statistics in? I would appreciate it if AgeOfKnowledge could clarify. Of course, don't give out the university and seminary where you studied, as that would be too much personal information. But I would appreciate, just for my own knowledge, what AoK studied, just so I can understand how someone with two Master's degrees could even consider posting someone else's materials without referencing.Or perhaps he could just admit he erred, and all is forgiven. If he doesn't want to discuss this in the forum, then just PM me. (And thanks in advance!)
I am not trying in any way to assassinate AoK character. I am just curious about his educational history. I do appreciate many of his posts, and his willingness to look at many sides of an issue, plus his sense of humour. And sorry to side track this thread.
(I even post references here when I have quoted a book. They really trained me well at my University for my undergrad and at my Seminary for my MDiv. LOL!)
Rachel I think was just a little outraged at catching a deception, and I do hope we will not lose any more people to banning. I am really against banning people (my personal opinion again!) unless they are actually proselytizing for some other cult or religion. The flavour of the forum gets lost when so many people get banned. I have run Christian forums in the past, and tried very hard not to ban people unless they were consistently abusive, or proselytizing.
PS I'm sorry for posting on this thread, when I said I would not. I have been following it, though, and I just wanted to support Rachel, who has been very upset, as a University student, when she found plagiarism.
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J
In my opinion, genders should work together. Whenever I'm reading this thread there's a mess of individuals hollering their anger out on just about anybody. Men attacking ladies, ladies attacking men, for what purpose? In my recollection this kinda behavior is described in Genesis. Far as I know that story contained a man, a lady, an apple and a serpent. And I'm sure both genders were to blame back then as well, failing to see who was pulling the wires - the evil spirit. This thread makes me believe we're back there, letting the evil spirit poison our minds, destroying what is holy and beautiful - the relationship between man and woman.
Thanks Angela for understanding.
My intention so far has definitely not been to go against anyone on CC. Even if I have been reported to the adminstrators, I am sure they'll look at the entire context of everything and make their decision.
They are very fair and I respect that. If I have been found to be violating conduct, then I would apologize and they can take whatever action is suitable, and if it is to ban me, then so be it.
When I am wrong, I have the courage to accept that. I've been raised that way.
As far as I know, I haven't reported AoK to the mods, but I think he should report himself to God
(and we all will, one day)
God bless you.
My intention so far has definitely not been to go against anyone on CC. Even if I have been reported to the adminstrators, I am sure they'll look at the entire context of everything and make their decision.
They are very fair and I respect that. If I have been found to be violating conduct, then I would apologize and they can take whatever action is suitable, and if it is to ban me, then so be it.
When I am wrong, I have the courage to accept that. I've been raised that way.
As far as I know, I haven't reported AoK to the mods, but I think he should report himself to God
(and we all will, one day)God bless you.
A friend of mine checked out a book from Pythagorus and was telling me and showing me quotes such as 'Cast not your pearls before swine' and 'They that worship God must worship Him in spirit and in righteous living.' Who knows if those quotes were truly from Pythagorus, an ancient figure, and whether he got them from somewhere else. They might have been considered common sayings in the first century. We use sayings and clichés all the time without citing them. That isn't immoral either.
The concept that one person owns can own intellectual property is an invention of man. In the US, there were no copyright laws for quite a long time.
When someone invented the wheel way back when, others were free to look and copy. That wasn't theft or immorality. If someone writes a song, it's not a sin for someone else to sing it, though there may be laws against recording and distributing the song. One country may have one set of laws and another country have another set of laws. It is not a black and white moral issue like murder.
I agree that he should have cited his source. You know, he could have just forgot to do so. That doesn't mean he committed some big sin to lambast him about. He could have responded a little better when you pointed it out, but your making way too big of a deal of it.
True, but professors don't usually go on the Internet to make sure you cite sources on discussion groups like this. And I'm not going to put together a citation reference like I would for an academic article, or make sure I find a source and cite it for just about everything I post that isn't original. I'll also post ideas and opinions online for which I support with neither an academic source or quantitative or qualitative data. I'll argue from an 'N' of one or two online. Since I'm not doing case-study type research, I wouldn't do that in a paper. I don't think anyone wants to read an academic style post anyway.
The question of statistics was only because Mr. AoK himself has said that he has a degree in statistics and that he would answer questions based on that.
The concept that one person owns can own intellectual property is an invention of man. In the US, there were no copyright laws for quite a long time.
When someone invented the wheel way back when, others were free to look and copy. That wasn't theft or immorality. If someone writes a song, it's not a sin for someone else to sing it, though there may be laws against recording and distributing the song. One country may have one set of laws and another country have another set of laws. It is not a black and white moral issue like murder.
I agree that he should have cited his source. You know, he could have just forgot to do so. That doesn't mean he committed some big sin to lambast him about. He could have responded a little better when you pointed it out, but your making way too big of a deal of it.
True, but professors don't usually go on the Internet to make sure you cite sources on discussion groups like this. And I'm not going to put together a citation reference like I would for an academic article, or make sure I find a source and cite it for just about everything I post that isn't original. I'll also post ideas and opinions online for which I support with neither an academic source or quantitative or qualitative data. I'll argue from an 'N' of one or two online. Since I'm not doing case-study type research, I wouldn't do that in a paper. I don't think anyone wants to read an academic style post anyway.
The question of statistics was only because Mr. AoK himself has said that he has a degree in statistics and that he would answer questions based on that.
A
Angela, I've already clarified my position in post #453 http://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/79897-dangers-feminism-21.html#post1440433 and am not going to continue on about it except to add that this is an informal forum to me for the purpose of informal discussion and that is relevant to the application of the definition imo.
If you want to hold me to an academic standard of definition in this forum, go ahead, but understand that I'm not going to hold myself to that standard because I don't believe it applies.
Yes that means I'm sometimes sloppy in citing and also sometimes like to interject my own opinion into what others say as my focus here is on the idea itself and why it's being conveyed within the context of informal discussion.
Of course, when asked for my sources in the course of the discussion I will provide them if I haven't already. It's just not a big deal to me in this informal context even though it is to some of you.
And I've seen that I'm certainly not the only educated person by far that views informal forums this way. Not by a LONG shot. But I'm the one you always go after for some reason... lol. You can choose to overlook it. I do in you and others concentrating instead on what they are saying and why they are saying it which is the point anyways.
Moving along....
If you want to hold me to an academic standard of definition in this forum, go ahead, but understand that I'm not going to hold myself to that standard because I don't believe it applies.
Yes that means I'm sometimes sloppy in citing and also sometimes like to interject my own opinion into what others say as my focus here is on the idea itself and why it's being conveyed within the context of informal discussion.
Of course, when asked for my sources in the course of the discussion I will provide them if I haven't already. It's just not a big deal to me in this informal context even though it is to some of you.
And I've seen that I'm certainly not the only educated person by far that views informal forums this way. Not by a LONG shot. But I'm the one you always go after for some reason... lol. You can choose to overlook it. I do in you and others concentrating instead on what they are saying and why they are saying it which is the point anyways.
Moving along....
I looked back at the post on guns in the India forum where AoK said that he'd studied statistics. The quote didn't say he had a degree in it. If he has an MBA, he's probably taken some stats for the MBA, if his program were anything like mine. (In mine, they assumed you had a basic knowledge of statistics, even if you had one class 20 years earlier that you didn't remember, and expected you to understand data analysis.) For those with Masters and PhDs who say they have studied statitics, they mean the discipline of statistics, not that they are able to tell you all the individual statistics about how many people are murdered. Those are statistics, but they aren't the discipline of statistics.
A
I have two masters degrees and a bachelors of science degree and I earned them the old fashioned way which is to say I went to work all day and then school all night... lol.
Anything and everything I formally produce adheres to APA or MLA standards. Informal Internet forums just don't qualify imo.
My moniker isn't because of my education but rather because we live in an age of knowledge so no narcissism is intended.
I congratulate you on your PhD studies. I won't be joining you; however, as I'm done with my formal education except for the requisite continuing education to maintain competency. After you successfully complete your dissertation, you'll be qualified to teach me.
Back to the topic. Moving along...
Anything and everything I formally produce adheres to APA or MLA standards. Informal Internet forums just don't qualify imo.
My moniker isn't because of my education but rather because we live in an age of knowledge so no narcissism is intended.
I congratulate you on your PhD studies. I won't be joining you; however, as I'm done with my formal education except for the requisite continuing education to maintain competency. After you successfully complete your dissertation, you'll be qualified to teach me
.Back to the topic. Moving along...
Your accusations have been heard. I am an editor/proofreader, and I work in the legal field. I can say that there was no plagiarism or thievery: he just didn't cite his sources, nor is he required to in such an informal forum. You can either ask for citations or ignore evidence you don't think is well supported.
I do admire your passion and your dedication to truth. But when you get hung up on the peripherals, then we are unable to actually discussion the issues.
I do admire your passion and your dedication to truth. But when you get hung up on the peripherals, then we are unable to actually discussion the issues.