Good. Apology accepted.
Maybe it's a 'been there done that' thing for you. However, my views are only expressed in honesty and sincerity. Of course the images of abused women first come into play, because even if we don't like it -That's the reality.
Here are some statistics
- Every 2 minutes, according to RAINN, someone in the United States is sexually assaulted.
- 44 percent of victims are under the age of 18 in sexual assaults; 80 percent are under the age of 30.
- 1 in 4 women has experienced domestic violence.
- Women account for 85% of the victims of intimate partner violence, men for approximately 15%.
I don't have stats on hand, but I've read much higher stats for males being victims of domestic violence. I'm thinking of a YouTube video that presented some results of an academic paper. It probably depends on the source. If you do an anonymous survey, more men may admit to specific details that can be categorized as DV. If your source is the police, that leaves out the men who do not report DV. Men are ashamed to call the police. If they call, they are likely to be the ones carted off by the police. In the US, police typically are not trained to think that women can cause domestic violence, and the male protective instinct (if the policeman is male) is to protect the weaker partner.
And this is in the United States alone. A developed country.
Economic development does not do away with this sort of thing.
If a person was really Christian, and following Jesus, they wouldn't be hurting women or other men. I agree.
I wouldn't say a person couldn't be a Christian and sin in this way. A man fornicating with his father's wife in I Corinthians 5 had the possibility of being saved in the day of the Lord, but a man mistreating his spouse in this way is not following Christ.
Also most victims of abuse remain silent about it for years altogether. The feminism movement highlights this aspect and brings attention to situations like this.
Isn't that a good thing?
I never said no good could come out of the Feminist movement. I could point to good things that Marxist Communist's do. That doesn't mean their philosophy is not contrary to the word of God.
You have a different concept of what Feminism is than I do. I am thinking of the philosophy that was promoted in the 1960's in the United States. I've been doing a little reading, and some include the Women's Suffrage movement under the broader category of Feminist movements. That is not what I am talking about. I have mentioned this several times, but I am talking about a philosophy that sees women as victims of patriarchy, and patriarchy as evil. Various other ideas came out of this movement, like a negative attitude toward women working in the home as mother instead of in the workforce.
And apparently you've had this discussion so many times before, that you can tell where people's minds go.
I wonder why you're posting and continuing in this cyclic fashion.
I've done some reading. I've had maybe one or two discussions on the topic that I can recall.
Your apparent problem with feminism, is that Pastors and sermons tend to gloss over verses of submission and women are not told enough that they should submit.
I mentioned several problems. That is one of the by-products of feminism. In the United States, like another poster pointed out, women can make jokes about men. Men can make jokes about men in mixed company. But make a joke about women and some women will get upset. A preacher telling an audience that wives are to submit to their husbands may be able to sense part of the audience growing cold. Some women may get angry or uncomfortable. It's an unpopular idea in this country.
Of course it happens quite often in the Indian subcontinent.
Once is definitely more than enough, and it happens in countries like Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Hong Kong, China, United Kingdom, Kenya, South Africa, Uganda, Ethiopia.
Maybe you'd like to generalize this as a cultural thing but I will remind you that I am Indian and not American.
I really don't understand the rationale behind the acid throwing thing. Do people in India and Central Asia have hydrochloric acid sitting around the house? Is this a 'crime of passion' from an angry, violent husband who happens to have containers of acid he can grab and throw and people? In my country, one would have to search for this kind of acid. It is not a household cleaning item. Is the acid is hard to find and the crime premeditated? If it is, why would even a violent and selfish man want to deform his wife like that, even blind her? Do the return the wives to their fathers after this?
That verse is not meant to be a stick to be used to beat women with. It is the conduct between a husband and a wife.
Why should quoting a verse about wives submitting to husbands be perceived as a beating?
What does equality for women and respect for them, have to do with wives and husbands?
Is it because if women are told they are equal, and they deserve respect it is going to hamper a relationship between a husband and wife?
You are using a different definition of Feminism than I am. I do not equate Feminism with respecting women. The Feminism I am opposed to is the type that defines patriarchy, male leadership, as evil. That makes the husbands leadership of the wife evil. It leads people to consider many 'holy, just, and good' laws in the Old Testament to be unjust. It does away with appropriate gender distinctions. This leads many men to not take their responsibility as a provider very seriously.
Over the years, I've heard and read of men who are irritated at their wives for not getting a job. I can understand that some women may need to work outside of the home. But the attitude that some men in the west have about this bothers me. When I married my wife, I realized that I was taking on the responsibility to provide for her financially. She has worked on our business, quite a lot. She wanted to do that. I appreciate that, but I wouldn't feel right scolding her about not working outside of the home.
In the political arena, Feminism leads politicians to propose that men and women both be drafted into the military.
As Christians, we cannot stay silent when we see injustice, suffering and denial of political rights. Aren't we the light of this world?
If you were staying in a hotel over the weekend, and while you were there, you had a right to vote on the color of the new curtains, and another tenant there for the weekend did not, would you protest? We are here for a short while. Should we care so much about political rights that God has not revealed are rights at all? (I take the Bible as revelation, not my country's Declaration of Independence.)
But I am surprised that being an American, you talk of equality like this?
You guys adopted the Declaration of Rights of Human and Civic Rights, a document of the French Revolution
Do you think like all other Indian women? Btw, I think the document you mentioned is named slightly different. I don't recall ever reading the US adopted such a document. A different set of documents, the Bill of Rights was added to the US Constitution before its radification. But I don't think God has given people a right to worship false gods or to blaspheme his name.
Equality is not equality in terms of talent or wealth. You're thinking in terms of government benefits.
Let me tell you, the homeless man on the street and Bill Gates, are both equal.
You haven't explained what you are asking about 'equality.' Equal in what sense? If the homeless man is great in the kingdom of heaven, he may be greater in that sense. But he's a hypothetical man. I'll let the Lord judge who is greater.
And whether or not that is granted by the government, they both should have the same rights because in front of God they have they do.
God gave one law in Israel. Rich and poor were to be treated the same. That is an area where we can talk about 'equality' under the law. There were certain laws that applied to certain groups, though. Some laws applied to the priests. There were also laws for husbands and wives, and genders were not treated the same under some laws. The husband could cancel the wife's vows, but not vice versa. Laws regarding murder apparently were to be applied the same across genders.
There is a man and a woman. Say A and B.
Both A and B have the same life expectancies, same age, same weight, same upper body strength, same mental abilities everything.
Except A is a man and B is a woman.
f(A, B)
What is the output.
Is A=B or A>B?
And f is the function that computes a relational operation of equality before God and government, state, legalities, offices, businesses etc.
Your question seems nonsensical to me. I can't figure out how to come up with numbers for any of those elements. You can go back and read what I've written.
God does not show favouritism. At all. I posted verses on that.
Favoritism and requiring different things of different groups of people is not the same thing.
Just don't go around making it seem like it is because women are inferior to men. That is misogynism.
Show me one thing I have written that indicates that women are inferior to men. You have a different definition of 'feminism' than I do, and apparently because of that you have judged me and applied ideas to me that I did not even say.
You imply here that I hate women, which I don't. I believe as a man I have a different role than my wife and daughters. I need to protect them, and I have an obligation to them in that regard that they do not have to me. That doesn't mean that I hate them. I believe my wife should submit to me as her husband. She believes that as well. That does not mean that I hate her.
Feminism is about wanting respect and equality.
And I would disagree with that. Not the feminism I am talking about. Feminism is about erasing gender role distinctions. It's about being opposed to the patriarchy, and considering patriarchy to be evil.
If a woman works just as hard as a man and doesn't get paid the same, that's injustice and it's wrong and it has to be addressed.
Rebecca works just as hard at Sam. Sam is a medical doctor. He is very skilled. He went to school for 25 years to train as a surgeon. Rebecca has no special skills, just general labor skills. But she works very hard frying hamburgers. She could have gone to a university, but felt like she wasn't smart enough to do it. Should they be paid the same?
What if the two of them work on an assembly line that pays per piece completed. The job requires heavy lifting and Sam produces twice as much as Rebecca. Is that unjust?
There are patriarchal and matriarchal societies, in different cultures across the world.
True, but matriarchy is rarer.
In fact, I think the relationship between a husband and wife is between them and God. And people should stop trying to project their ideal relationships onto others.
They have the Bible and they have God and each other. It is between them.
It is appropriate for church leaders to teach their congregations what the word of God says about marriage. If there is sin in a marriage, the sin effects the congregation, and church discipline may be in order.
