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Pie

Pie

Senior Member
#41
May 21, 2011
151
1
18
#41
Mm This is sad. But no rights have been violated in my opinion.

The thing about "gay" marriage.... There's no such thing as "gay" marriage. It irks me when people say it. The law is BLIND to sexual orientation. Homosexuals CAN MARRY anyone of the opposite sex regardless of their sexual orientation. This is why it bothers me when people cry out equal rights.. They have equal rights. The issue here is redefining marriage to include same-sex marriage. (Under this, two people who are the same sex CAN get married even if they aren't homosexual. I reinterate, the law is BLIND to sexual orientation.)

This isn't about legislating morality. This isn't about making it illegal to participate in homosexual acts which I would agree is wrong. I have homosexual friends and family. I don't wish to control their actions. The reason marriage hasn't been redefined for so long is because saying same-sex marriage was an oxymoron until recently. It's like saying "I'm the heir of Bill Gates." Someone says, "No you're not." I say... "Well, I think we should redefine heir to include me." Now the definition of marriage has been changed. It's now arbitrary and based on an emotion called love. Which means eventually anyone who "loves" each other can get married. Who are we to argue that they can't (unless it's illegal like pedophilia) when marriage has now been given that definition? Who are YOU to claim 3 people can't "love" each other? Who are you to deny them their "right" to marry?(Now that the definition of marriage is love, YOU CAN'T.) I know plenty of christians who didn't even mind letting homosexual couples enjoy the same benefits as married couples under some sort of civil union. But it's the fact, they pushed hard enough to redefine "marriage" to suit them that is upsetting people.

People are also talking about people who should have a right to refuse service to people based on sexual orientation. Again, this is showing the hypocrisy of many Christians. I have seen so many that feel it is their God-given duty to treat homosexuals with resentment. Now a wedding cake, or wedding pictures? I can understand that if you don't support same-sex marriage and don't want to portray that you do..But if you're doing it for morality reasons... let's face it... When people come into their store, do Christians ask them things like, "Is this your first marriage?" "Have you been divorced? How many times? What were the reasons for your divorce? Were they validated by the Bible?" "Was the other person ever married?" "Did you have an affair with this person before deciding to marry them?" "Did you fornicate with them?" Come on.. We cherry pick. If you say, you don't wanna serve sinners... then you better close up shop because you're going to have no customers.. This is the reason, I think Christians get targeted...We sort of bring it on ourselves.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#42
#42
No. Normative morality is as real as silver. God is as real as silver. That is my point.

To the teacher, the silver does not exist unless she chooses to believe that it does. Her metaphysical worldview is false and that can lead her to disbelieve reality to whatever extent she chooses to.

I may not be able to convince her the silver bar is real just as I may not be able to convince an atheist that God and His normative reality are real. That doesn't negate their existence.

The result of their failure to accept reality is that they suffer whatever consequences arise from their disbelief of reality on a personal level and also their disbelief of reality negatively affects society to whatever degree that it does.



Percepi said:
The difference between the silver you juggled hand to hand and normative morality is that the silver is a physical object. Normative morality, on the other hand, is a concept. Of course, you're arguing normative morality comes from God, which transitions the debate towards the existence of God.

To you, God is as real as the silver you juggled hand to hand. To non-believers, he's as real as the Deathstar from Star Wars. So, there isn't a consensus on God - and more importantly, normative morality.
Click to expand...
 
Percepi

Percepi

Banned
#43
Feb 16, 2014
903
2
0
#43
No. Normative morality is as real as silver.
Click to expand...
I didn't say normative morality isn't real, I said it isn't a physical object. It is a concept. The concept of normative morality is as real as any other moral concept. It doesn't exist in the physical world, in the same sense the rules to chess don't physically exist either - the rules are conceptualized.

I may not be able to convince her the silver bar is real just as I may not be able to convince an atheist that God and His normative reality are real. That doesn't negate their existence.
Click to expand...
Nobody is arguing that God and normative reality aren't real because people choose not to believe in them.

People don't believe God is real. It's obvious he's real to you, but not to non-believers. It's not based on the concept that people choose not to believe in him because they don't want to believe - it's genuine disbelief. And all morality is a concept - it's not a physic object. It doesn't have a physical presence.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#44
#44
Normative morality is not a physical object. That is true. However, it is real and not just a concept. In fact, God's normative morality is as real as my bar of silver and certainly does influence the world both on the personal level and societally.

Read this: http://christianshelpingourworld.org/society

Read this: http://christianshelpingourworld.org/worldviews

God and His morality cannot simply (or safely) be set aside without consequence in this world or the existence which follows. God's normative morality is MORE than your analogy of rules to a game of chess simply because God is able to move the pieces Himself.

God is the unseen chess master. God intervenes in the physical world on behalf of His normative morality (e.g. divine intervention). Historical examples aside, one example of this which is commonly observed presently relates to matters of spiritual warfare on the earth between the kingdom of God and that of Satan with respect to people and includes the release of people from demonic oppression and possession into a new life of salvation and sanctification, supernatural Christian healing, etc...

If narrative helps, here's such an example that tens of thousands of ex-Muslims are presently recounting in which God begins to engage them personally drawing them to Himself: The Supernatural Thing an Ex-Muslim Claims Guided Him to Christianity | Video | TheBlaze.com
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#45
#45
And God's normative morality also transcends the definition of an agglomeration of mere "rules" for other reasons.

Let me give you an example. One object in God's normative morality is LOVE. Is LOVE defined by the definition of a "rule" (e.g. an explicit regulation or principle governing conduct within a particular activity or sphere)?

I think not.

Certainly there is a religious duty associated with godly love (e.g. godliness + love); however, in the Christian revelation God's love (especially agapē) is an expression of the essential nature of God, the perfect characterization of the relationship between God and humans, and the supernatural virtue or character of God reflected in the Christian community in relation to God and one another as shaped by the indwelling Holy Spirit. <--note the word HOLY, which is another object in God's normative morality, as holiness is an attribute of God's love.

This connection between love and God’s own character gives rise to the Christian focus on love as the fundamental characteristic of Christian discipleship and hence of Christian ethics.

God's love and holiness are as real as silver though infinitely more precious (which shall be revealed in eternity) carrying consequence for this life and what comes after transcending the definition they are but "rules."

God’s attribute of holiness is an attribute that is consistently manifested in God’s love. For example, God’s attribute of love may be manifested in a variety of ways, such as tender kindness or as stern chastening, but the manifestation of His holiness in these is always the same. God’s holiness (His absolute moral excellence) is revealed at all times, the same way.“For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his Holy Spirit.” (I Thes. 4:7-8)

“But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.” (I Pet. 1:15-16)

Christians should always emphasize God’s love within the context of His holiness. God’s love (agape) must always be within the confines of holiness.



 
T

TashMeyer76

Guest
#47
#47
At the end of the day it is like this.

Just as the adulterous woman sinned and JESUS told her "GO AND SIN NO MORE" and as the woman who was brought before Jesus ready to be stoned were told "Where are your accusers" "GO AND SIN NO MORE" so Jesus stands and says to the man who lays with a man or woman with woman

"Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire."

He instructs you to die to your own man, take up your Cross and SIN NO MORE.





 
J

J-Kay-2

Guest
#48
#48
Listening to preaching this morning and topic of Russia and the
Muslim religion brought out the fact they persecute homosexuals.
I am thinking.... "maybe the homosexuals here is USA might wish
they had kept their sexual orientation to themselves and stayed in
that closet." It is my belief we are being led into becoming a socialistic
country. Christians and homosexuals will all be persecuted for different
reason. Christian for loving Jesus Christ as Savior. Homosexual for being
lovers of same sex. Just wait ... watch what happens... We need to be ready
for that BIG CHANGE our leader of USA promised.
I prefer to have Christ as my Savior and be persecuted for Him,
at least I know I will live with Him forever. ~J~K~2
 
M

MarkMulder

Guest
#50
#50
Percepi said:
And according to your logic, if God didn't say pedophilia was wrong, then it wouldn't be wrong.

The fact of the matter is, children do not understand sex and relationships. Instead of arguing against my argument, you're arguing against a hypothetical that doesn't exist.

Allow me to ask this, is pedophilia wrong ONLY because God says it's wrong, or is it also wrong for other reasons? Please elaborate.
Click to expand...
You should pay attention better, I never mentioned "God" here, now did I?

Pedophilia is wrong because kids are INNOCENT,
not because "they dont understand sex and relationships."


 
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