Is it ok to use corporal punishment on your kids

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PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
791
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63
Australia
#21
I grew up in a time when corporal punishment was still "a thing" in South Africa (I am talking mid 90s)
Hi... My dad lived in Sth Africa for 10 years in the 60s and 70s. Then he came to Australia, got married and i was born... LoL
My dad fled his country of Portugal when he was 17yo because the fascist government was taking all the boys into the army at 18yo.
They were still fighting wars in their old African colonies...

My dad knew some Portuguese people that had moved to Sth Africa. He was able to catch a plane to Mozambique because it was Portuguese. From there he was able to sneak into Sth Africa and meet up with his friends in Pretoria. Thats where he lived and worked illegally for 10 years. It was life or death for him then and the stories that he tells are from a time and place that is hard to imagine...

He grew up in the only fascist country left in Europe, they all lived in fear. Then he moved to the most racially segregated society in the world at the time as Sth Africa was under the apartheid... He has witnessed real fascism and real racism...

So all this talk of "anti-fascism" and "systemic racism" that we hear today is a joke really. Not in the USA or the UK or here.
What is it like in Sth Africa now? Which area are you from?
 
Jan 25, 2015
7,988
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#22
Hi... My dad lived in Sth Africa for 10 years in the 60s and 70s. Then he came to Australia, got married and i was born... LoL
My dad fled his country of Portugal when he was 17yo because the fascist government was taking all the boys into the army at 18yo.
They were still fighting wars in their old African colonies...

My dad knew some Portuguese people that had moved to Sth Africa. He was able to catch a plane to Mozambique because it was Portuguese. From there he was able to sneak into Sth Africa and meet up with his friends in Pretoria. Thats where he lived and worked illegally for 10 years. It was life or death for him then and the stories that he tells are from a time and place that is hard to imagine...

He grew up in the only fascist country left in Europe, they all lived in fear. Then he moved to the most racially segregated society in the world at the time as Sth Africa was under the apartheid... He has witnessed real fascism and real racism...

So all this talk of "anti-fascism" and "systemic racism" that we hear today is a joke really. Not in the USA or the UK or here.
What is it like in Sth Africa now? Which area are you from?
I am in Johannesburg (not far from Pretoria).

Things are pretty much the same but the other way around now. The government is still racist, and segregation based on skin color are still there. The racism is now against whites.

Unfortunately I don't see an end to this unless God himself intervene. Man don't have the solution and while there are people left in the country that felt wronged by the past, there will always be issues.

Our neighbor is half- Portuguese (is there such a thing? :ROFL:) and we love him and his wife to bits.
 
Jan 25, 2015
7,988
2,232
113
#23
I don't have kids but spoken as a child of parents who didn't know how to use corporeal punishment.
My parents used it to vent their anger and frustration with their job, marriage and life in general.
So, I was beaten every day, usually it was small, I'd get slapped in the face or hit on the head multiple times throughout the day, but if they were angry by something or in especially bad mood, I'd get bruised. It really had little to do with me or what I did.
It looks like people either overuse or underuse it.
There is a certain place for corporeal punishment. A very few rare situations.

A child telling an ugly cussword to their mother's or father's face, or name calling them:
--------->
A slap in the face might be due. Not a beating, a beating won't make any difference, ONE slap to instruct a point for reflection and reset boundaries. But I don't know... even then, because at that point, there's a usually a series of events as to why the child lost respect and things had already gone very downhill in the relationship if the child does this. The Hollywood version "go to your room" seems equally ineffective in fixing this.

Beside this type of situation (resetting boundary) I honestly see NO other cause for ever hitting a teenager, unless maybe if they murdered or raped someone or they became a child molester. I don't know how good I'd be at containing my wrath in that type of situation, as a parent. At least one hit would probably land. I don't understand when parents coddle their child after the child does something so horrible. It's like their golden child can do no wrong? But maybe I don't understand because I don't have kids... I don't know...

I was 19 when I finally stopped my mother from beating me, after trying to reason with her unsuccessfully, asking her if she's going to beat me until I'm 40 or 50. So as she continued, I gripped and withheld her hands in the air, that's literally all I did, until she spit into my face and left. After that she lied to my father that I hit her.

So. I do feel very mixed on this issue.
I am not really sure what beating anyone ever achieved.

The only other situation where I potentially might see corporeal punishment used, for a very small child that you cannot explain a dangerous situation for them and you need to stop them quickly and make them not repeat it, if situation can't be avoided/prevented differently (such as covering electric outlets with protective baby covers per example) :
----------->
You quickly cause them a small pain so they won't do it again because slapping their butt once for future prevention highly overweighs the danger they put themselves into

I believe a child should be made to understand cause and consequence, and that you don't want them to make bad decisions and go through bad things in life. A lot of talking is required, quality talking. Some parents, sadly, don't know how to do that.
Nowhere in the Bible it states to hit your child through the face :( it is said to give them a smack on the behind.

The Bible also teach us not to provoke our children and by smacking them around is a provocation in my opinion.
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
791
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Australia
#24
I am in Johannesburg (not far from Pretoria).
Ye i think my dad worked there as well... LoL...:) On the map they look like twin town next to each other...
I'll ask him which neighborhoods he lived in next time i see him...

Things are pretty much the same but the other way around now. The government is still racist, and segregation based on skin color are still there. The racism is now against whites.

Unfortunately I don't see an end to this unless God himself intervene. Man don't have the solution and while there are people left in the country that felt wronged by the past, there will always be issues.
Ye i thought thats what i had heard, it's flipped around... So there are still enforced white and black areas...:cry:... Thats sad
I see the other English speaking countries going the same way... Intersectionality. White privilege. Black lives matter.
Look at what is happening in America with all the looting and rioting...

Why can't everyone just forget about what happened before we were born.
You know the actor Morgan Freeman? His a black guy and was asked how can they stop racism...
He said 'stop talking about it, simple... I'll stop calling you a white man and i ask you to stop calling me a black man' he said
He made it sound really simple. But they go digging up the past. There has to be forgiveness as Christ commanded...

Our neighbor is half- Portuguese (is there such a thing? :ROFL:) and we love him and his wife to bits.
Ye of course there is such thing. One of his parents is Portuguese and the other is SA...
I think there may be still a bit of Portuguese blood floating around there being close to Mozambique
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
791
433
63
Australia
#25
Grew up with it. I think some need it and some dont. Key is to do it in a way that wont harden the heart of the child against their parents (it surely hardened mine for the times that it wasnt right) and only do it when it actually is necessary.
Ye your not the first one to say that either... A girl above said she would get spanked for having bad grades, and that such abuse leads to PTSD which is just a horrible thing to carry for your whole life... I guess my parents are even better than i thought because thet weren't too heavy handed and rarely spanked us...
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
791
433
63
Australia
#26
I don't have kids but spoken as a child of parents who didn't know how to use corporeal punishment.
My parents used it to vent their anger and frustration with their job, marriage and life in general.
So, I was beaten every day, usually it was small, I'd get slapped in the face or hit on the head multiple times throughout the day, but if they were angry by something or in especially bad mood, I'd get bruised. It really had little to do with me or what I did.
It looks like people either overuse or underuse it.
There is a certain place for corporeal punishment. A very few rare situations.

A child telling an ugly cussword to their mother's or father's face, or name calling them:
--------->
A slap in the face might be due. Not a beating, a beating won't make any difference, ONE slap to instruct a point for reflection and reset boundaries. But I don't know... even then, because at that point, there's a usually a series of events as to why the child lost respect and things had already gone very downhill in the relationship if the child does this. The Hollywood version "go to your room" seems equally ineffective in fixing this.

Beside this type of situation (resetting boundary) I honestly see NO other cause for ever hitting a teenager, unless maybe if they murdered or raped someone or they became a child molester. I don't know how good I'd be at containing my wrath in that type of situation, as a parent. At least one hit would probably land. I don't understand when parents coddle their child after the child does something so horrible. It's like their golden child can do no wrong? But maybe I don't understand because I don't have kids... I don't know...

I was 19 when I finally stopped my mother from beating me, after trying to reason with her unsuccessfully, asking her if she's going to beat me until I'm 40 or 50. So as she continued, I gripped and withheld her hands in the air, that's literally all I did, until she spit into my face and left. After that she lied to my father that I hit her.

So. I do feel very mixed on this issue.
I am not really sure what beating anyone ever achieved.

The only other situation where I potentially might see corporeal punishment used, for a very small child that you cannot explain a dangerous situation for them and you need to stop them quickly and make them not repeat it, if situation can't be avoided/prevented differently (such as covering electric outlets with protective baby covers per example) :
----------->
You quickly cause them a small pain so they won't do it again because slapping their butt once for future prevention highly overweighs the danger they put themselves into

I believe a child should be made to understand cause and consequence, and that you don't want them to make bad decisions and go through bad things in life. A lot of talking is required, quality talking. Some parents, sadly, don't know how to do that.
That is so sad... It reminds me of how luck i am to have had my parents cos i can't complain with their use of corporal punishment...

I never got disciplined like that when i was a teenager, it stopped after i was about 10yo
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
2,465
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#27
Ye of course thats standard. Im talking about the odd occasion when that doesn't work... Tough love
Some kids are wild... Those ones in the supermarket for example, ain't no love going to fix that...
The problem is you keep using this kid at a supermarket as the poster child for physical discipline, when that's not his problem.
His problem is either
A ) a lack of discipline in general, or
B ) a condition that may cause him to act up uncontrollably

And "no love going to fix that". Discipline without love is nothing more than taking your frustrations out on a child in a harmful manner. And love should immediately follow discipline. It reconnects the child and the parent helping the child to calm down quicker and feel things are more stable, making the discipline more effective.

It seems the biggest factor parents lack is any kind of discipline. Second is knowing how to properly discipline to make it effective. And also the point of discipline and how and when to use it.
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,752
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Germany
#28
It should not be an excuse to abuse your kids... sorry to hear this my friend.

Hope you are well :)
I am alive haha.
Sometimes the line between abuse and discipline are very fine. Sometimes it doesnt dhow until later which of the two it was
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
791
433
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Australia
#29
The problem is you keep using this kid at a supermarket as the poster child for physical discipline, when that's not his problem.
His problem is either
A ) a lack of discipline in general, or
B ) a condition that may cause him to act up uncontrollably
U call it a "poster child". I call it an example of a child that lacks discipline.
If using this example once or twice is such a problem then offer another example...

And "no love going to fix that". Discipline without love is nothing more than taking your frustrations out on a child in a harmful manner. And love should immediately follow discipline. It reconnects the child and the parent helping the child to calm down quicker and feel things are more stable, making the discipline more effective.
Its not about taking out your frustrations if you are sincere...
Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him - Proverbs 13:24

Its about discipline
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.
If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol - Proverbs 23:13-14


It seems the biggest factor parents lack is any kind of discipline. Second is knowing how to properly discipline to make it effective. And also the point of discipline and how and when to use it.
Ok here's an example. Your boy has learnt some dirty words at school, now when his mother tells him something he doesn't like, he gets angry and says "f*** off b***h"... What's the proper way of disciplining this boy?

Or your boy keeps picking on his little sister. Kicking her, punching her and hurting her
What's the proper way of disciplining this boy?

Its tough love that should be rarely used
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him - Proverbs 22:15

When you do use it sparingly, it works... Your poster child no longer wigs out at the supermarket
The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother - Proverbs 29:15
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
1,017
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#30
For bad grades... Na thats too much. PTSD is real. If your being spanked for small stuff then the trauma will stay with u for sure.
Are you American Indian or Asian Indian? I know quite a few Asian Indians but i never knew them to spank their kids...

We're talking about extreme stuff like defiance. I remember once being told off by my mum and i called her a b^^^h...
And so i got spanked, deservedly by my father and never disrespected my mother again. I deserved that.
Singaporean American but Indian origin. Corporal punishment was big then, but I don't think anymore. I remember in my young school years there was public corporal punishment in the school yard for everyone to see. All the little shops sold canes. I think every household had a cane.
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
1,017
707
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#33
That is so sad... It reminds me of how luck i am to have had my parents cos i can't complain with their use of corporal punishment...

I never got disciplined like that when i was a teenager, it stopped after i was about 10yo
Mine stopped when I was in 3rd grade. But I remember it was frequent a couple of those years. Only a few times I was left with marks but I still remember vividly. My parents were going through a rough patch too so I'm certain it spilled over to me.
 

TheIndianGirl

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Nov 22, 2019
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#34
The thing with corporal punishment is that it is not forgotten. Children start remembering things once they are around 5.
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
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#35
The thing with corporal punishment is that it is not forgotten. Children start remembering things once they are around 5.
Ye for sure. Those childhood memories make up the foundation of their character later in life... So if its abuse then thats not good...
Mine was rare and justified. I looked backm on it with a sense of gratitude towards my olds...
Otherwise i would of been that kid bouncing on the sofa all the way into the lake of fire

I think they can start remembering things from younger... Whats your earliest memory?
I think i can remember somethings from when i was 4, maybe even 3yo... LoL...;)
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
791
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Australia
#36
Singaporean American but Indian origin
Ok... I gotta ask for more information here so i can paint a picture and humanize u.
What are the origins of your parents?

Mine are both Portuguese, immigrated here to Australia where i was born... We are near Asia so im familiar with their appearances...
East Asians have the finest skin... They always appear younger than their true age...
 

TheIndianGirl

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Nov 22, 2019
1,017
707
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#37
Ok... I gotta ask for more information here so i can paint a picture and humanize u.
What are the origins of your parents?

Mine are both Portuguese, immigrated here to Australia where i was born... We are near Asia so im familiar with their appearances...
East Asians have the finest skin... They always appear younger than their true age...
My family has been in Singapore and Malaysia for several generations, so we no longer have ties or bond to India (no relatives there, etc.) Origin is South Indian (Kerala and Tamil Nadu).
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
791
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Australia
#38
My family has been in Singapore and Malaysia for several generations, so we no longer have ties or bond to India (no relatives there, etc.) Origin is South Indian (Kerala and Tamil Nadu).
Ah ok... There are some Malaysians that have a more eastern appearance and some Malaysians that have a more Indian appearance...
And you moved to America... Ok... There are many big religions in south east Asia. Christianity is probably the smallest I think. Is it?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
10,371
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#39
I think it depends on the situation and what kind. we have a law against smacking now because many parents were using corporal punishment as a licence to abuse their children ...a hiding wasnt just a hiding, it was beat your child black and blue until they had to go to hospital and/or died. Or if they survived lived in fear until they were old enough to run away.

my thoughts are the main problem is adults go crazy when they drink, and they take it out on their children. Then theres the few that are also religious nuts...

A loving parents sets boundaries.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
2,465
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#40
U call it a "poster child". I call it an example of a child that lacks discipline.
If using this example once or twice is such a problem then offer another example...



Its not about taking out your frustrations if you are sincere...
Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him - Proverbs 13:24

Its about discipline
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.
If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol - Proverbs 23:13-14




Ok here's an example. Your boy has learnt some dirty words at school, now when his mother tells him something he doesn't like, he gets angry and says "f*** off b***h"... What's the proper way of disciplining this boy?

Or your boy keeps picking on his little sister. Kicking her, punching her and hurting her
What's the proper way of disciplining this boy?

Its tough love that should be rarely used
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him - Proverbs 22:15

When you do use it sparingly, it works... Your poster child no longer wigs out at the supermarket
The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother - Proverbs 29:15
You clearly missed my point. My point was that the child lacked Any discipline, even non physical. You kept saying that child needed physical discipline and he would automatically stop. So in essence you're arguing with me on the point we both agree on, but not acknowledging my Actual point.

Love is Part of proper discipline. The foundation of raising a child is love, support and security. Discipline is rounding off the rough edges that inevitably pop up. If you don't have the first three then you have no foundation for discipline, you just having punishment like a master and a slave.

Discipline isn't about teaching a child to obey because you said so. It's about instilling in them an understanding of their actions and why they are wrong so that Within Themselves they lose the desire.
It's also about the teaching of consequences. The focus should be on the child, not the parent.
And we see this all the time, especially in Christian households where discipline isn't about growth and training a child to understand so they Want to obey, but "doing what you're told".
Then when there's nobody standing over them when they grow up they have no discipline, so they do whatever they want. Because discipline didn't grow within them internally, it was force fed to them externally.

Prison is a prime example. Prison is ineffective because it's forcing external change, and that doesn't take hold. It's not until something changes on the inside that inmates begin to truly regret their actions and change.