Marriage in trouble...need sound financial advice

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djlb

Guest
#1
I have been married to my husband for 23 years. I am a Christian and he was when we were first married. Over time, he has had many trials and has lost his connection with God. Things are horrible between us now, but he actually has gone to counseling and I pray he will continue.

The question for today is: How do I keep myself financially safe and secure? He is making nasty decisions without me and does not care at all. Today he bought a 2014 Ford truck without my blessing. He somehow made financial arrangements without me. I have always been the breadwinner. He has recently purchased a semi and will be doing that for a job. However, he has not been out much due to the weather. We have always made team decisions and I am DEVASTATED that he went ahead with the purchase without me. I did not support it at all and he knew it!

I know he is not happy and trying to be independent. What steps do I need to take to protect myself and my children?
 
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brokenclay

Guest
#2
Dear Sister. My wife has been the financial supporter of our family for the last 5 years. Unfortunately I'm the one who worries over money. But more so for her sake. Has this purchase put your mortgage in jeopardy? If not, then make a budget and put money in a separate account for emergency. As for your husband, maintain a positive relationship. The worst thing to do is act like its your money and not his too. My money is my wife's money when I'm working. But its very hard for her to see it that way, now that she is the sole earner. If he has no issues with alcohol, drugs or gambling, that's a plus. I will pray for God to give you his peace and wisdom and love. You both have done well considering the challenges. Your children will be stronger in their trials when they see their mom love and pray for their dad. God bless you and your husband to bring honour and glory to his name.
 
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kenthomas27

Guest
#3
Hi djlb - I have to agree with brokenclay in that you and your husband are partnered before God and have committed to a loving and sharing relationship. This is through good times and bad. That being said, I understand your financial fears, especially when your partner doesn't include you in on these very big financial decisions. First things first - a 2014 Ford truck is worth a lot of money. Even if things go bad and you get behind on payments or are upside down on value - it's still worth a lot and you could recoup a good deal - even if everything bad came true. So, try not to look at it as a $30k mistake and perhaps this will even inspire your husband to work and bring in the kind of finances necessary to support this and other aspects of your marriage responsibilities. Second - pay 10% of your salary to your family. I know this sounds un-doable, especially when finances are tight and tithing and just plain life, but think of it as a cut in pay that won't come back. Put this 10% in a grow-able market and do this for the love of your family because that's truly what it is. Third, talk to your family about the stresses of being the bread winner of the family and what that means to you. Families are pretty resilient especially when one of its members is in harm's way. I think if they all knew your fears and your wants and your desires that they would share in some of those same things. Who knows - you might even find that there is something you can do as a family that can make money when weather is keeping your husband from driving. Being a bread winner is tough because it seems like "everybody else is having fun while you are working making ends meet" and that's a lonely feeling. Part of truly loving your family is not only watching after them but knowing they're happy too. If this Ford truck made your husband happy, then rejoice in his happiness but let him know your fears and wants. You need a gift too.
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
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#4
When he makes selfish, unilateral decisions like this, he is stealing from the family. Have your check direct deposit into an account that he doesn't have access to so you can pay the bills, save, and invest as you two had originally agreed to do. Then transfer whatever money is budgeted for him to spend back into the joint account. (if you give cash, you can't track what he's spending.)

I'm going to assume that he is a decent person overall and contributes to the good of the family, even if it isn't financially. This isn't "punishment;" you just have to look our for the rest of your family and protect the income that you have worked so hard for.

FYI, I would give the same advice if the genders were reversed.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,093
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#5
The Bible tells wives to submit to their husbands. Even if he made a poor financial decision, you still need to submit to him and respect him. That doesn't mean you have to agree with it or think the way he did it was right. But you have to accept it and not be bitter over it. What's done is done (unless it's still under the right of recsision in your state.)

That being said, a brand new automobile, IMO, is a poor 'investment.' It looses about 30% of it's value when you drive it off the lot. It only makes sense if you have a lot of disposable income. If I had a million dollars, I think I'd still drive a used car (in the US market where cars severely depreciate, though my decisions may be different overseas. But a lot of consumers who buy new vehicles disagree with me. If they didn't exist, the cheaper used car market wouldn't exist either.

Do you think your husband is going through a mid-life crisis? Did he buy a gold necklace and start opening up his shirt to show his necklace and his hairy chest and things like that?
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
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#6
Abigail defied her selfish husband and was praised. Saphira went along with her selfish husband and was killed. Ergo, there is no Biblical example or precedence to "obey" someone who is not also obeying God as well.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,093
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#7
I Peter 3
[h=1]1 Peter 3 (New International Version)[/h]
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Add parallel[h=3]1 Peter 3[/h]New International Version (NIV)

3 Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, [SUP]2 [/SUP]when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, [SUP]6 [/SUP]like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
(NIV)
 

Lucy68

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2011
2,538
22
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#8
I hope you both can work on healing your marriage. But in the meantime, considering that he's making HUGE purchases without your knowledge, you may want to get a separate bank account right away. Since the money has been in a joint account it seems fair to withdraw half of that and start your own account. It seems like he isn't thinking clearly right now.

I've heard of husbands and wives having separate accounts then each contributing to a joint account that pays the mortgage, food, etc. It's sad when this is necessary but one spouse can ruin the whole family's financial status.

Good for him for going to counseling...he must see that he needs help and is trying. Maybe he's having trouble with impulse control?
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,951
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#9
While the money you make does belong to the marriage, or both of you, if he is making big purchases without your knowledge or agreement, then you really do have to make different banking arrangements, as he has reneged on his part of the marriage vows.

I know a loaded Ford truck and a semi would be such huge purchases it either drained your bank account, or it means a huge loan, which you will now be responsible for. Please separate your money.

And why doesn't your husband have a job? Is he sick or unable to work? If so, how can he drive a semi?

"But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." 1 Tim. 5:8

As for being submissive, this is a voluntary option. It does not mean the same thing as obey, which is what Paul told the slaves to do toward their master.

sub•mis•sive (səbˈmɪs ɪv)

adj.1. inclined or ready to submit; unresistingly or humbly obedient.
2. marked by or indicating submission.


I think you do need to be humble with your husband, but he has shown himself incapable of being a good leader. Therefore, please take steps to protect yourself and your family. I think your husband is proving to be an unbeliever, and for that reason also, you are not bound to submit to him when he is robbing your family of the means to support itself.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,093
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#10
As for being submissive, this is a voluntary option. It does not mean the same thing as obey, which is what Paul told the slaves to do toward their master.

sub•mis•sive (səbˈmɪs ɪv)

adj.1. inclined or ready to submit; unresistingly or humbly obedient.
2. marked by or indicating submission.
I Peter 3
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, [SUP]6 [/SUP]like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

NIV, emphasis mine.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
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#11
I know he is not happy and trying to be independent.
I think that's important to know. I just hope you know how important that is to him. I can't stress enough how little value is placed on male-ness in modern society. And how little our male-ness is needed or even matters anymore. No doubt he feels rather useless and may feel better once he's able to fly on his own and support someone other than himself with his own strength.

I can't offer you any financial advice at the moment, but I've given you what I know. I hope you find what you need.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,093
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#12
djlb,

Some more thoughts on this. In the Old Testament, when a man married a woman, he could cancel her vows to the LORD. If he cancelled the day he heard of it, no one was responsible for it. If he waited till the end of the day and did not cancel it, but cancelled it later and did not fulfill it, he was guilty of breaking a vow to the LORD. Vows required taking the belongings of the household, livestock or produce. The husband had power over the goods of the household. There is no law that he could cancel sons' vows. Sons were the heirs. God, in His wisdom and justice had land pass from father to son, and gave these laws concerning vows. The woman of Proverbs 31 bought land, apparently leasing it up to 70 years if the laws were followed (and if we are talking out Israeli lands). She used the produce of her field and the work of her hands to contribute to her household, her husband's household. Men were required to provide food, clothing, and sexual relations to their wives.

My point is, Biblically, I don't think you should see what your husband did as 'stealing.' It's a good thing, especially in our culture, if a husband and wife are in unity and agreement on financial decisions. But the Bible doesn't say it's a sin if a husband makes a financial decision on his own without his wife's knowledge or approval. Some marriages operate fine that way, and in some cultures and situations it may make more sense. The 30-year-old Bedouin whose been selling goats and camels for years who finally marries a 16 year old girl probably isn't going to ask her permission every time he sells a goat or buys a new one. In the Bible, when David was at the threshing floor of Aruna the Jebusite, hoping to offer sacrifice there to prevent the angel from killing the people, he didn't say, "I'd like to buy this threshingfloor, but first let me ask the approval of Haggith, Bathsheba, Ahinoam, Maacah, Abital, Eglah, Mical, and all my concubines, and see if I can buy this threshing floor." Buying land or a new truck without one's wife's permission isn't grounds for divorce.

Abigail did feed David's men against Nabal's wishes. She did so to save her husband's life and the lives of others with him. Maybe she was a submissive wife. If a submissive' wife's husband were slipped some LSD in his drink, and the husband was in the middle of a busy road about to get hit by a car, and he told his wife to let him stay there to get picked up by aliens, wouldn't try to pull him out of the road? Submission is important, but wives are also supposed to their husbands good all the days of their lives. Nabal was not drugged against his will when David was coming to kill him. He'd drunk too much. But Abigail still did what was within her power to save her household.

If you have been the primary bread winner, that can be a stressful thing for a man. I hope he has been doing what he can to provide. Be that as it may, if your husband has not been obeying the word, I Peter 3 says to submit to him that he might be won by your chaste conversation. I would say treat him with respect and work on the relationship if he is unhappy. If he is secure in his leadership at home, he may not be trying to assert his 'independence' in other ways.

Also, if you could get onboard with a financial strategy you both agree with, that could help. Dave Ramsey's is a radio host who focuses on getting out of debt. He has some kind of financial training program. There are also Christian radio shows, Money Matters, and the program by Crown Financial. You could take one of their financial trainings together. That way you get some experts other than yourself telling him some good ideas. If he accepts them, and you get on board with the same strategies on how to spend your money, that may work better than focusing on divorce or being upset with him about it.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
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#13
Forget all this nonsense about submitting to your husband, that is mus-guided and foolish talk. To submit to a husband, the husband has to keep his side of it, which he is not. Submission does not mean allow the husband to do what he likes, marriage is still a working partner-ship.

Where is the wisdom in crippling your finances? Where is the love in that? its selfish motivation which has to stop. "The love of money is root of all kind of evils". Satan loves to use this to destroy.

Sound practical advice, set up a bank account just in your name only and have your wages paid in to that. Then he can not access it and spend it. Give him an allowance each week. After all the bills have been paid, money set aside for food etc, with some money for emergency savings, then you can see how much is left and give him a percentage of that.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,093
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#14
Forget all this nonsense about submitting to your husband, that is mus-guided and foolish talk.
The Bible is neither misquided nor foolish.

To submit to a husband, the husband has to keep his side of it, which he is not.
That's not what I Peter 3 says.

Whether she gets separate bank accounts or not, submission and respect is important, especially if her reaction to the truck situation is to argue or think about divorce. Focusing on what the word ways about these things can help keep her from veering off in the wrong direction in her relationship. There are bigger issues here than trucks and finances.
 
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kayem77

Guest
#15
What has he said about his motives behind these kind of actions? You mentioned he has gone to counseling, have you gone with him or does he go by himself? I'm just trying to understand the situation a little better. I think talking with a leader from church, together and separately, would be good for you both.

I'm not married, but usually this kind of behavior comes with issues that haven't been dealt with. If I was in that situation, I would talk to him and tell him that as much as I love him and want to support him, I cannot support destructive behavior. I don't know how many times he has made reckless decisions like these though, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the impression this is not the first time. In that case, I would consider creating separate accounts if after talking to him he refuses to change. I would explain to him that it's not because I don't love or respect him, but for the sake of the family (you mentioned you have children) and himself. Sometimes enabling is the same as endorsing.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#16
The Bible is neither misquided nor foolish.
No but your interpretation of it is. Many people get the submission thing wrong. Submission is not about letting a husband get away with things. Men use this all the time, even in a dressed down manner which you are using to control women and put them in their place and to make them be quiet and shut up.

Funny how men who bleat on about submission and make an issue over it, then overlook the part about their responsibility to respect, honour and love the wife unconditionally and not do anything to upset or anger the wife.

If Husband is a loose canon by putting the houshold finances at risk by making impulse buys, such as thousands of pounds on a new car, then the wife has a duty to put him in his place and give him an earful and remind him of his duty and responsibilities.

If it was the husbands money to spend, and the money was extra money which had been saved or obtained, then sure, go ahead and spend it, but when its being pilfered out of a joint account which is being funded by the wife, then its totally disrespectful and wreckless and is far from being respectful and honouring to the wife, yet, you then expect the wife to submit and just let him get on with it..... POPPYCOCK!
 
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AmberGardner

Guest
#17
Show him these verses.

Matthew 6:19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
Luke 18:22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Not supposed to store up treasures for ourselves, including money. Maybe, if you already have transportation, can give the truck to somebody in need.
 

proverbs35

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2012
825
239
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#18
He is going to counseling, and that's a plus. My advice would be to pray without ceasing. You definitely need God's intervention, strength and direction. Continue to respect him because you don't have a justification to disrespect him. Disrespecting others is never justified, and you want to approach God's throne in prayer with clean hands. With that being said, I pray God's best for you and your family.
 

proverbs35

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2012
825
239
43
#19
djlb, Some more thoughts on this.
presidente said: Sons were the heirs.
During a time when women were traditionally not permitted to own anything, let alone property, Caleb gave his daughter Achsah the land of Negev and the upper and lower springs (Jos 15:18-19).
Job gave an inheritance to both his sons and daughters (Job 42: 12-15).
Daughters of Zelophehad are another example of female heirs. However, unlike Noah's daughter's they were only granted property in the absence of brothers (Num 27:1-11).
So, there are female property heirs documented in the Bible too, but I'm not sure how that relates to this wife's dilemma.

presidente said: My point is, Biblically, I don't think you should see what your husband did as 'stealing.' It's a good thing, especially in our culture, if a husband and wife are in unity and agreement on financial decisions. But the Bible doesn't say it's a sin if a husband makes a financial decision on his own without his wife's knowledge or approval.
You might have a point here. We can't clearly label a husband's decision to make a large purchase without the knowledge or approval of his wife as stealing or a direct sin no more than we can use OT laws about vows and male property rights to justify a husband's irresponsible behavior. When a husband intentionally doesn't seek the wisdom of his wife/helper as it relates to making a large purchase, his behavior is unwise (Pr 15:22) self-seeking (1 Co 13:5) and dishonorable (Pe 3:7) to his wife.

presidente said: Buying land or a new truck without one's wife's permission isn't grounds for divorce.
I didn't read where she disccussed divorce. Seems like you introduced the word divorce into the conversation.

presidente said: If you have been the primary bread winner, that can be a stressful thing for a man.
Being the primary bread winner can also be stressful for a woman. However, that certainly would not be justification for a wife to preclude her husband from the financial decision making.

presidente said: If he is secure in his leadership at home, he may not be trying to assert his 'independence' in other ways.
I realize that djib brought up the issue of his independence. The idea of a man (or woman) being independent is a humanistic myth. Heck, it's not even humanly possible. As believers, we should understand that we are God-dependent. We are all dependent upon God and the church whether we realize it or not. Furthermore, Paul said, "Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman (1 Cor 11:11)." So, the idea that a man is or should be independent is not one supported by scripture. Therefore, if a man or woman is striving to be independent, they will be stressed because they are trying to achieve an unobtainable and unbiblical status.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,093
1,755
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#20
No but your interpretation of it is. Many people get the submission thing wrong. Submission is not about letting a husband get away with things. Men use this all the time, even in a dressed down manner which you are using to control women and put them in their place and to make them be quiet and shut up.

I notice people who have a problem with the Biblical issue of submission try to characterize those who believe in it as wanting to put women in their place, to be quiet and shut up.

Funny how men who bleat on about submission and make an issue over it, then overlook the part about their responsibility to respect, honour and love the wife unconditionally and not do anything to upset or anger the wife.
Some translations of Colossians 3 translate it as not being harsh with your wife. Your interpreting it as her being embittered. But be that as it may, the poster is the wife, not the husband. She is to be submissive to her husband and respect him. Is telling her he is stealing, and encouraging her to hide money from her husband going to help her do what God has called her to do? If we are addressing a man who has agreed to pay a lot of money over a long period of time for a fast depreciating asset, while his wife was opposed to it, I can see why you might take this approach. But this is the wife. She needs to respect her husband. If she keeps thinking in terms of her having a right to decide what he can purchase, is that going to help her? If she realizes that her husband is her head and she is supposed to submit to him, that may help her let it go and move on. He's made the commitment to the purchase.

If Husband is a loose canon by putting the houshold finances at risk by making impulse buys, such as thousands of pounds on a new car, then the wife has a duty to put him in his place and give him an earful and remind him of his duty and responsibilities.
'Give him an earful.' Show me where the Bible teaches wives to do that to husbands. Do you think husbands should also give their wives 'an earful.' When I read that, I envision an angry wife, yelling at her husband. The way husbands and wives speak to each other is important. Yelling is perfectly acceptable if your spouse is about to get hit by a bus. Otherwise, it's generally not. Wives should speak to their husbands respectfully. Husbands should speak to their wives in a way that demonstrates their love for them, treating them with the proper honor as the weaker vessels. A wife should not speak to her husband as if she is in charge of him, berating him for not obeying her, that sort of thing.

If it was the husbands money to spend, and the money was extra money which had been saved or obtained, then sure, go ahead and spend it, but when its being pilfered out of a joint account which is being funded by the wife, then its totally disrespectful and wreckless and is far from being respectful and honouring to the wife, yet, you then expect the wife to submit and just let him get on with it..... POPPYCOCK!
Again, we are talking to the wife, not the husband. She posted the OP. We don't know if she is reading or not. Sometimes these threads go on and on as posters talk amongst themselves. We don't know if money is coming from a joint account. She described herself as the breadwinner, but we don't know their full financial picture. A truck drivers may be able to afford a new truck.

Something else to keep in mind on these threads is we are only getting one side of the story. We don't know what is going on from the other party's perspective. Some people are quick to give advice-- move your money out of the joint account, or whatever, based on one side of the story. If we don't know the whole picture, that can create a problem.

We all make assumptions when we read these threads. I realize I made one, probably because I'd been reading a thread about divorce before it. I read 'marriage in trouble' and my mind went to divorce, but maybe that wasn't justified by what was actually written in the OP.