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If you were dating me, it would make you single. 
Seriously, though ... Abuse is not so black and white. For example, an abuser may kindly request that his/her spouse do something, and then start the punishments when the abused spouse fails to do what was requested. Eventually, the abused spouse learns that disobeying or failure = pain. So when you're at a party and your abused friend "voluntarily complies" with the abuser's simple request, it's not really voluntary.
Abuse rarely begins with blatant commands and controlling or physically violent behavior. It's very insidious, much like the anecdote of the slowly boiling frog.
Seriously, though ... Abuse is not so black and white. For example, an abuser may kindly request that his/her spouse do something, and then start the punishments when the abused spouse fails to do what was requested. Eventually, the abused spouse learns that disobeying or failure = pain. So when you're at a party and your abused friend "voluntarily complies" with the abuser's simple request, it's not really voluntary.
Abuse rarely begins with blatant commands and controlling or physically violent behavior. It's very insidious, much like the anecdote of the slowly boiling frog.
This thread is strange to me.
On the one hand, I appreciate that we live in a culture where people tend to be anti-abuse, anti-abuse in relationships, in marriage, etc. On the other hand, I think a lot of Christians put way too much emphasis on the way our society thinks about abuse than what the Bible teaches about marriage.
When we hear 'abuse' we think of wives or children with black eyes and broken bones. Usually, an abuser in a relationship is thought of as being a man. That's not really true since there are abusive women, and I've read lesbians have the highest rates of domestic abuse of any type of couple.
I've been reading on here that it is not God's will for someone to be abused. I've got a question. Jesus died on the cross. Was that God's will? One of Peter's sermons in Acts indicated that it was. It was prophesied beforehand, after all. Isaiah says it pleased God to bruise Him. The LORD 'has laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.' So, wasn't it God's will that Jesus was abused? That Jesus suffered.
Look at what Peter says about this:I Peter 2
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
This is even more appropriate when you consider that the situation Peter is talking about is those who were suffering domestic violence. Typically, slaves lived in households. Masters would beat them if they did something wrong. But some of these slaves were being beaten for doing what is right. Probably, some of the slaves were being beaten for being Christians or being involved in Christian activities. They may have been beaten because they went to church or didn't get involved in some pagan ritual.
Let's look at the passage.
I Peter 2
1 Peter 2-3New King James Version (NKJV)
2 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, [SUP]2 [/SUP]as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]3 [/SUP]if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
[h=3]The Chosen Stone and His Chosen People[/h][SUP]4 [/SUP]Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, [SUP]5 [/SUP]you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,[SUP][c][/SUP]
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”[SUP][d][/SUP]
[SUP]8 [/SUP]and
“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”[SUP][e][/SUP]
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; [SUP]10 [/SUP]who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
[h=3]Living Before the World[/h][SUP]11 [/SUP]Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, [SUP]12 [/SUP]having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.
[h=3]Submission to Government[/h][SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, [SUP]14 [/SUP]or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men— [SUP]16 [/SUP]as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
[h=3]Submission to Masters[/h][SUP]18 [/SUP]Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
(NKJV)
This was Peter's advice to slaves suffering domestic violence. If we grew up watching Hollywood movies, we've seen scenario after scenario where the hero or protagonist responds to injustice by fighting back, crashing cars, beating up bad guys and then beating up, killing, or capturing the final bad guy. Jesus responded to injustice by suffering. Peter teaches these abused people to follow the example of Peter.
I heard a teaching YouTube a few days ago where a woman pointed out that Peter told slaves to submit to their masters, even the ones who were harsh, then continues on in chapter 3
I Peter 3:1
Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives,(NKJV)
She made the point that 'likewise' indicates that as slaves submitted to their masters, even the harsh ones, so wives should submit to their husbands. Notice it shows that they should even submit to the ones who do not obey the word.
I Peter 4 tells believers to follow the example of Christ who suffered. It tells of idolators who 'heap abuse on you.' So the word abuse is mentioned.
Peter says,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good. (KJV)
If some people suffer because of the abuse of others 'according to God's will' how can we say that it is never God's will for a believer to suffer abuse?
Jesus said that those who suffer for righteousness sake are blessed.
In this case, we aren't talking about a situation where, as far as we know, a woman is in danger for her life. I understand wanting to protect those who are in danger of losing their lives from abusers. Since Saul was king, David was in a relationship where he was to submit to him. But David did flee to save his life. Preserving one's life is a valuable thing. But we aren't talking about that.
It's strange to me that, with the example of Christ, and the teaching of Peter, then when people start talking about 'abuse' in terms of being too controlling or something much less severe than threatening someone's lives, that there are Christians who will think about separating from a spouse over such things.
I don't want any of my daughters to marry some man who micromanages her wardrobe, tells her what ear rings to wear, and wants her to scrub between the cracks in the tile every night with a toothbrush. But if she did, she'd need to submit to her husband. If he's being too controlling, that doesn't make it right for her to rebel. I'd much rather see my daughters marry men who care about them, who are very reasonable, who trust their abilities and include them in decision making, seeking to please them. If a woman is married to a bad husband, he's still her husband, even if he's a bad husband. And we shouldn't be seeking to 'put assunder' what God has joined together just because someone is controlling.
In regard to the OP, there is a bit of a moral dilemma here. As a Christian, if she is one, she should be meeting with and fellowshipping with other Christians. She should also submit to her husband. Now if here husband were saying don't go to the all alone, or don't go to Walmart alone, I might think that was a little weird for him to forbid her from going places, but I would say the Bible says to submit to her husband. But the issue is he doesn't want her to go to church. I think it's reasonable if a husband says on a one-off occasion he doesn't want his wife to go to church on a particular night, that's reasonable as a one-off thing, but there is a difference between never going and not going one time. Wives are to submit to their husbands as unto Christ. Submission to the Lord comes first.
But, especially since a wife submitting to her husband is one way to win him, I think it's best to take a Daniel approach. Daniel had a manager over him who watched out for him and the other captives in his position for the king. They wanted to give Daniel some defiled food, which, as a Jew, he could not eat. He could have said, "I choose to obey God rather than you." But, instead, he took a humbler approach. He humbly negotiated with the servant who watched him, asking if he and his companions could be tested after eating only vegetables. The man agreed to the test. So Daniel submitted to this man, but also served God.
On the one hand, I appreciate that we live in a culture where people tend to be anti-abuse, anti-abuse in relationships, in marriage, etc. On the other hand, I think a lot of Christians put way too much emphasis on the way our society thinks about abuse than what the Bible teaches about marriage.
When we hear 'abuse' we think of wives or children with black eyes and broken bones. Usually, an abuser in a relationship is thought of as being a man. That's not really true since there are abusive women, and I've read lesbians have the highest rates of domestic abuse of any type of couple.
I've been reading on here that it is not God's will for someone to be abused. I've got a question. Jesus died on the cross. Was that God's will? One of Peter's sermons in Acts indicated that it was. It was prophesied beforehand, after all. Isaiah says it pleased God to bruise Him. The LORD 'has laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.' So, wasn't it God's will that Jesus was abused? That Jesus suffered.
Look at what Peter says about this:I Peter 2
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
This is even more appropriate when you consider that the situation Peter is talking about is those who were suffering domestic violence. Typically, slaves lived in households. Masters would beat them if they did something wrong. But some of these slaves were being beaten for doing what is right. Probably, some of the slaves were being beaten for being Christians or being involved in Christian activities. They may have been beaten because they went to church or didn't get involved in some pagan ritual.
Let's look at the passage.
I Peter 2
1 Peter 2-3New King James Version (NKJV)
2 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, [SUP]2 [/SUP]as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]3 [/SUP]if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
[h=3]The Chosen Stone and His Chosen People[/h][SUP]4 [/SUP]Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, [SUP]5 [/SUP]you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,[SUP][c][/SUP]
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”[SUP][d][/SUP]
[SUP]8 [/SUP]and
“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”[SUP][e][/SUP]
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; [SUP]10 [/SUP]who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
[h=3]Living Before the World[/h][SUP]11 [/SUP]Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, [SUP]12 [/SUP]having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.
[h=3]Submission to Government[/h][SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, [SUP]14 [/SUP]or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men— [SUP]16 [/SUP]as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
[h=3]Submission to Masters[/h][SUP]18 [/SUP]Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
(NKJV)
This was Peter's advice to slaves suffering domestic violence. If we grew up watching Hollywood movies, we've seen scenario after scenario where the hero or protagonist responds to injustice by fighting back, crashing cars, beating up bad guys and then beating up, killing, or capturing the final bad guy. Jesus responded to injustice by suffering. Peter teaches these abused people to follow the example of Peter.
I heard a teaching YouTube a few days ago where a woman pointed out that Peter told slaves to submit to their masters, even the ones who were harsh, then continues on in chapter 3
I Peter 3:1
Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives,(NKJV)
She made the point that 'likewise' indicates that as slaves submitted to their masters, even the harsh ones, so wives should submit to their husbands. Notice it shows that they should even submit to the ones who do not obey the word.
I Peter 4 tells believers to follow the example of Christ who suffered. It tells of idolators who 'heap abuse on you.' So the word abuse is mentioned.
Peter says,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good. (KJV)
If some people suffer because of the abuse of others 'according to God's will' how can we say that it is never God's will for a believer to suffer abuse?
Jesus said that those who suffer for righteousness sake are blessed.
In this case, we aren't talking about a situation where, as far as we know, a woman is in danger for her life. I understand wanting to protect those who are in danger of losing their lives from abusers. Since Saul was king, David was in a relationship where he was to submit to him. But David did flee to save his life. Preserving one's life is a valuable thing. But we aren't talking about that.
It's strange to me that, with the example of Christ, and the teaching of Peter, then when people start talking about 'abuse' in terms of being too controlling or something much less severe than threatening someone's lives, that there are Christians who will think about separating from a spouse over such things.
I don't want any of my daughters to marry some man who micromanages her wardrobe, tells her what ear rings to wear, and wants her to scrub between the cracks in the tile every night with a toothbrush. But if she did, she'd need to submit to her husband. If he's being too controlling, that doesn't make it right for her to rebel. I'd much rather see my daughters marry men who care about them, who are very reasonable, who trust their abilities and include them in decision making, seeking to please them. If a woman is married to a bad husband, he's still her husband, even if he's a bad husband. And we shouldn't be seeking to 'put assunder' what God has joined together just because someone is controlling.
In regard to the OP, there is a bit of a moral dilemma here. As a Christian, if she is one, she should be meeting with and fellowshipping with other Christians. She should also submit to her husband. Now if here husband were saying don't go to the all alone, or don't go to Walmart alone, I might think that was a little weird for him to forbid her from going places, but I would say the Bible says to submit to her husband. But the issue is he doesn't want her to go to church. I think it's reasonable if a husband says on a one-off occasion he doesn't want his wife to go to church on a particular night, that's reasonable as a one-off thing, but there is a difference between never going and not going one time. Wives are to submit to their husbands as unto Christ. Submission to the Lord comes first.
But, especially since a wife submitting to her husband is one way to win him, I think it's best to take a Daniel approach. Daniel had a manager over him who watched out for him and the other captives in his position for the king. They wanted to give Daniel some defiled food, which, as a Jew, he could not eat. He could have said, "I choose to obey God rather than you." But, instead, he took a humbler approach. He humbly negotiated with the servant who watched him, asking if he and his companions could be tested after eating only vegetables. The man agreed to the test. So Daniel submitted to this man, but also served God.
The OP said nothing about manipulation. We don't know the reason her husband opposes the church, so speculating is just debating in a vacuum.... My point was for her to find out why, and if he didn't have a good reason, "Just Go". She's not a child who needs Daddy's permission, she's an adult who should make her own mind up.
My motivation of recommending a diet is because she's fat. I don't manipulate, control, or abuse her. I just pointed-out the obvious and inspired her to fix the problem... And she is.
My motivation of recommending a diet is because she's fat. I don't manipulate, control, or abuse her. I just pointed-out the obvious and inspired her to fix the problem... And she is.
To better understand what is going on, i would need to know WHY He does not want you to go to Church, That would be the first thing to find out if you do not know. You said that he did not want you to go because he MIGHT not be comfortable with you driving. Do you not know this information? Do you not communicate with your husband? Instead of assuming why he does not want you to go to church, ask him, why?
How can you address a problem without knowing what the problem is. You know he does not want you to go to Church, but you do not know the WHY? of it. That is what you need to address first.
Then start another thread that says "My Husband don't want me to go to Church because _____________________"
if you have already said the why in latter posts, i do apologize for not reading them.
^i^
How can you address a problem without knowing what the problem is. You know he does not want you to go to Church, but you do not know the WHY? of it. That is what you need to address first.
Then start another thread that says "My Husband don't want me to go to Church because _____________________"
if you have already said the why in latter posts, i do apologize for not reading them.
^i^
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R
I am sorry to hear that your husband seems controlling. However he has no right to say no to you just because he don't to go himself. Man does not own women, man should not have control over women and vice versa. But I feel you are in a situation that may go wrong if you decide to go with or without his consent, and Its that kind of trouble you don't want to be facing.
I would sit down and talk to him, rather than getting angry and getting upset. Expalin your wanting to go to a church. and ask him to expplain why he don't want you to go, and see if you both can come to a compromise. At the same time, I would pray about it. So that God would be in control of this situation. rather than your husband.
Ask your Christian Friends to pray for your husband and you. because no person should stop you or hinder you coming to God. And God will not allow that to happen. God is calling you, and the enemy is using your husband to try stop you. Im not saying your husband is possessed or demonically controlled, But its clear that the enemy is trying to stop you.
And I and I'm sure people on CC will be praying for you both.
I would sit down and talk to him, rather than getting angry and getting upset. Expalin your wanting to go to a church. and ask him to expplain why he don't want you to go, and see if you both can come to a compromise. At the same time, I would pray about it. So that God would be in control of this situation. rather than your husband.
Ask your Christian Friends to pray for your husband and you. because no person should stop you or hinder you coming to God. And God will not allow that to happen. God is calling you, and the enemy is using your husband to try stop you. Im not saying your husband is possessed or demonically controlled, But its clear that the enemy is trying to stop you.
And I and I'm sure people on CC will be praying for you both.