questian for those who want children

[cv5]

I think many people who have kids, a lot of them do not think too deep about it especially if they are young. They fall in love, get married, have sex, oops, then get pregnant, or sometimes it's just have sex, and then oops, they are pregnant. These people do not have a motivation for having kids.

If not for miraculous intervention, the results are generally very poor.
Quite frankly I do not even like the thought of sending my kids to public schools. Almost all public institutions nowadays are so corrupted so sinful it's outrageous. I mean how could you possibly get an education when you're constantly being bombarded by sin sin sin?

 

[Scribe]

This entire existence will be forgotten in the Kingdom to come.....exactly as the memory of the generations/civilization before the flood has been completely wiped out. Gone irrelevant wiped out. Sophomoric yearnings and fond memories will be wiped out as well.

Yes, but aren't you glad your parents had kids?

 

[TheIndianGirl]

I do not give too much importance to maintaining family lineage. Most people do not even know their great grandparents. I would be fine with adopting children, and would value them as my own children.

 

[cv5]

Yes, but aren't you glad your parents had kids?

Ask Kim Jung Un. And then ask the rank-and-file North Koreans. I for one would never have kids in North Korea. Or Iran. Or China. Or anywhere in the continent of Africa. Or India. Or Russia. And I don't particularly like the idea of having kids here in this country with the scam-pandemic incredible money printing by the crooked Bankster's, the threat of nuclear weapons, the constant lies by the politicians who I am forced to vote for despite the fact that I find them utterly revolting, the absurd and continual warmongering.

And the constant threat that my children will perish either in the war for be conscripted to fight a war that they had no part in creating, but will be either tricked, coerced or forced to fight this war by a wicked king.

So how would you like it if your son died in a war not of his making as a victim, or would be forced to fight it and be blown to smithereens. This of course has happened millions and millions and millions and millions of times.

Nope. This world is a scam and a lie. Human beings are horribly abused, exploited and tormented. We can't even escape and we don't have a choice.

Here you go...... pontificate over this litany of horrors......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

This world is sick and my kids will never even so much as see it let alone experience it.
Think of it this way: This world is literally X rated, and is unfit for children's viewing!

 

[surfer14]

With extremely rare exception, I don't trust any adult over 30 that isn't married with kids. I think it's incredibly selfish. Here's why:

Your parents sacrificed some of their wants and desires to bring you into this world and raise you.
Your grandparents sacrificed some of their wants and desires to bring your parents into this world and raise them.
You great-grandparents sacrificed some of their wants and desires to bring your grandparents into this world and raise them.
And that pattern went back hundreds of generations.
And now that you're choosing to not continue their work, you're saying to ALL of them that they did all that sacrifice just for you!

Besides, children are an absolute blessing from God. If you don't have kids, you have NO IDEA what I'm talking about. I learned so much about love through my kids. I think anyone that doesn't have kids doesn't know jack about love. They are the only ones you'll ever have a chance of loving unconditionally. When you see your son or daughter for the first time you realize that EVERYONE else you might love - that love is contractual. Even our love for Jesus is contractual - we love Him because He first loved us. That's contractual. My wife could potentially do something that would make me not love her anymore. That's contractual. But my kids? I absolutely loved them beyond what I can begin to describe from the moment I heard their first cry. That's not contractual! They didn't earn it. They can't do anything that will make me stop loving them. Ever. That's unconditional. Loves flows downstream - love your children. Respect flows upstream - respect your forefathers. Respect your God. Until you have kids you'll never have a chance of knowing that. You have not really lived until you have kids. You might think you have, but you haven't.

My daughter tells me she loves me. Sometimes I stop and tell her that she thinks she loves me, but once she has a baby of her own, only then will she know how much I love her. I can't wait for that day! Because I'm confident she's gonna say "I see what you were talking about now!" It's going to draw us closer together than we already are. And besides, I can't wait to see grandkids!

 

[TheIndianGirl]

With extremely rare exception, I don't trust any adult over 30 that isn't married with kids. I think it's incredibly selfish. Here's why:

Your parents sacrificed some of their wants and desires to bring you into this world and raise you.
Your grandparents sacrificed some of their wants and desires to bring your parents into this world and raise them.
You great-grandparents sacrificed some of their wants and desires to bring your grandparents into this world and raise them.
And that pattern went back hundreds of generations.
And now that you're choosing to not continue their work, you're saying to ALL of them that they did all that sacrifice just for you!

Besides, children are an absolute blessing from God. If you don't have kids, you have NO IDEA what I'm talking about. I learned so much about love through my kids. I think anyone that doesn't have kids doesn't know jack about love. They are the only ones you'll ever have a chance of loving unconditionally. When you see your son or daughter for the first time you realize that EVERYONE else you might love - that love is contractual. Even our love for Jesus is contractual - we love Him because He first loved us. That's contractual. My wife could potentially do something that would make me not love her anymore. That's contractual. But my kids? I absolutely loved them beyond what I can begin to describe from the moment I heard their first cry. That's not contractual! They didn't earn it. They can't do anything that will make me stop loving them. Ever. That's unconditional. Loves flows downstream - love your children. Respect flows upstream - respect your forefathers. Respect your God. Until you have kids you'll never have a chance of knowing that. You have not really lived until you have kids. You might think you have, but you haven't.

My daughter tells me she loves me. Sometimes I stop and tell her that she thinks she loves me, but once she has a baby of her own, only then will she know how much I love her. I can't wait for that day! Because I'm confident she's gonna say "I see what you were talking about now!" It's going to draw us closer together than we already are. And besides, I can't wait to see grandkids!

Your judgement and views on singles and/or the childless are not based on the Bible, which says that singlehood is a blessing. Paul also advised singles to remain single.

Are you saying if someone doesn't have kids, all of her/his descendants might as well not lived? That their lives were a complete waste?

I agree that the love between parent and child is very special, but please note that love between true friends is the most special:

“Some friends play at friendship but a true friend sticks closer than one’s nearest kin."

My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends."

 

[surfer14]

Your judgement and views on singles and/or the childless are not based on the Bible, which says that singlehood is a blessing. Paul also advised singles to remain single.

Are you saying if someone doesn't have kids, all of her/his descendants might as well not lived? That their lives were a complete waste?

I agree that the love between parent and child is very special, but please note that love between true friends is the most special:

“Some friends play at friendship but a true friend sticks closer than one’s nearest kin."

My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends."

Wow, you gave me a great response in the other thread AND in this thread?? You're awesome!

In regard to you first question...sort of. You ancestors no doubt had other kids other than you. So their lives weren't wasted. But I do think that, in a way, if you are the only child of your parents and you don't have children, then your life and your parent's lives were in large part pointless. Not completely, but certainly somewhat.
(I didn't used to think this. I do now.)

Regarding the love of friends versus children: I think you're picking and choosing your verses to match your views a little bit here. Please don't get offended by my saying that. We all do it.

I will say that the love you have for a friend is very much contractual. It isn't unearned. They could do something to cause it to cease.
Notice I didn't say that unconditional love is better or greater than contractual love. The other day I was sitting on the sofa between my daughter and my new daughter (in law). I had an arm around each of them, and it felt a little bit like heaven. I love one unconditionally and the other contractually, but neither substantively greater than the other.

I have been blessed beyond measure. I certainly haven't earned it. His love is obviously unconditional. Sometimes I ask Him - why me?

 

[surfer14]

Ask Kim Jung Un. And then ask the rank-and-file North Koreans. I for one would never have kids in North Korea. Or Iran. Or China. Or anywhere in the continent of Africa. Or India. Or Russia. And I don't particularly like the idea of having kids here in this country with the scam-pandemic incredible money printing by the crooked Bankster's, the threat of nuclear weapons, the constant lies by the politicians who I am forced to vote for despite the fact that I find them utterly revolting, the absurd and continual warmongering.

And the constant threat that my children will perish either in the war for be conscripted to fight a war that they had no part in creating, but will be either tricked, coerced or forced to fight this war by a wicked king.

So how would you like it if your son died in a war not of his making as a victim, or would be forced to fight it and be blown to smithereens. This of course has happened millions and millions and millions and millions of times.

Nope. This world is a scam and a lie. Human beings are horribly abused, exploited and tormented. We can't even escape and we don't have a choice.

Here you go...... pontificate over this litany of horrors......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

This world is sick and my kids will never even so much as see it let alone experience it.
Think of it this way: This world is literally X rated, and is unfit for children's viewing!

cv5,
You concerns are ALL valid. You're way smarter than the average bear. But here's the thing about intelligence: Intelligence doesn't mean to come to the right conclusions. It only means to can come up with fancier rationalizations for your right and wrong conclusions!

I think you're being a little bit cowardly on this one. How many times in the Bible are we warned not to be fearful? It's all over the place. It think you're allowing your fear to rob you (and your God, family, neighborhood, nation, etc) of the blessings of a child.

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

 

[cv5]

cv5,
You concerns are ALL valid. You're way smarter than the average bear. But here's the thing about intelligence: Intelligence doesn't mean to come to the right conclusions. It only means to can come up with fancier rationalizations for your right and wrong conclusions!

I think you're being a little bit cowardly on this one. How many times in the Bible are we warned not to be fearful? It's all over the place. It think you're allowing your fear to rob you (and your God, family, neighborhood, nation, etc) of the blessings of a child.

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

The quintessential problem is as follows:
There is an insurmountable moral dilemma in bringing children into the world in the midst of a war. Without the benefit of informed consent, it is clear that the parents are fully responsible for this decision and action. This spiritual warfare is real, it is daily, it is costly. Same can be said of the wars of men and nations. I can see no reason to gamble where my children are little more than bets and tokens. They deserve better. Far far better than this wicked world. They deserve an ironclad no-fault guarantee, failsafe, without cost, no contingencies. No risk no gambling no bets, only security and happiness.

This talk supposed benefits is wholly selfsh. I cannot possibly expect any level of return or performance out of children. If it happens that's great. If it doesn't happen blame yourself. Evidently, you made a mistake or two and screwed them up.

But the perpetual lies and exploitation is the kicker for me. Let the wicked kings of this world exploit their own children. Let them conscript their own children into their own vain and selfish wars. What in the world do my children owe a wicked king? Do I and they owe them our lives because we exist on his land? Evidently so because that's the way the system works isn't it?

No....... let this world burn. We as Christians have been informed that this is quite inevitable.

 

[Billyd]

After three boys and at a time of great turmoil in our relationship, we decided not to have any more children. God blessed us with a beautiful daughter. It's amazing how fast our relationship turned around. Don't be surprised, when the time is right, God may just bless you beyond your wildest imagination.

 

[cv5]

After three boys and at a time of great turmoil in our relationship, we decided not to have any more children. God blessed us with a beautiful daughter. It's amazing how fast our relationship turned around. Don't be surprised, when the time is right, God may just bless you beyond your wildest imagination.

"we" "us" "our" "you"
What about "them".....The children?

I hear that selfsh self-centered talk all the time. To most parents (and especially women) children are merely "accessories" like at Dolce and Gabbana handbag. Or "farmhands". Utterly revolting.

Wicked kings and tyrants are not the only ones who make merchandise of children.

I'm sure you realize that every child born needs at least $100,000 cash right out of the gate for a college education correct? $250,000 is better actually. However every child born is NOT the beneficiary of such largess. The fact of the matter is that the Banksters have burdened each and every child born with $100,000 in debt (at least is probably more than that). Is it legal to force people into debt that not of their own? Yes.... yes it is.

Conclusion: The evil wicked rulers of this world consider human beings merely as chattel and cattle, to be used and abused at their whim and exploited, enslaved by lies and debt, and to be used as pawns in their internecine wars. These wars enrich the bankers and big corps, while they murder the powerless.........Your children and mine.

Ooops not mine because I short-circuited this insane doom loop. The greedy wealthy and warmongering are going to burn in eternal hell. And it can't come to soon as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

In regard to you first question...sort of. You ancestors no doubt had other kids other than you. So their lives weren't wasted. But I do think that, in a way, if you are the only child of your parents and you don't have children, then your life and your parent's lives were in large part pointless. Not completely, but certainly somewhat.
(I didn't used to think this. I do now.)

We are all part of Adam and Eve's lineage and that will continue until the end. Personally, I don't give great importance to biological lineage. Anyone who has family with step/adopted children (whom they raised from a young age) would most likely agree. We don't know for sure if our family genealogy includes illegitimate or adopted children, so our lineage may not be "pure." Even if the childless person does not have children (biological, adoptive, etc.) for whatever reason, I do not believe the lives of his/her ancestors were a waste.

I think the only unconditional love is from God. There are a lot of estranged parent/child relationships out there. Some women do not even recover from postpartum depression.

 

[cv5]

We are all part of Adam and Eve's lineage and that will continue until the end. Personally, I don't give great importance to biological lineage. Anyone who has family with step/adopted children (whom they raised from a young age) would most likely agree. We don't know for sure if our family genealogy includes illegitimate or adopted children, so our lineage may not be "pure." Even if the childless person does not have children (biological, adoptive, etc.) for whatever reason, I do not believe the lives of his/her ancestors were a waste.

I think the only unconditional love is from God. There are a lot of estranged parent/child relationships out there. Some women do not even recover from postpartum depression.

Yup. It's a crap shoot no guarantees. And the children or the ones who really end up suffering for the errors and the failings and limitations of the parents. The slums of Bangladesh, India and Karachi are testimony to the fact that parents are selfish and really don't care about the welfare and future of their children. They simply want them. What happens after they're here they could care less. They are shooting craps. Incredible really.

By the way no one really wants to admit that parents lie to their children all the time. Even the so-called good ones. The truth........the real truth..... about life is so horrific, few if any parents actually inform their children of the truth. They withhold the truth in unrighteousness. Little wonder that children are vulnerable to the lies of the wicked one. We are taught by their parents to be deceived.

Just a thought but if I were in Israel at the time of Herods despotic reign, would I bother having children? The reality is at that time really you did not have a choice, especially if you were female. In that culture, you had to marry or you were simply going to die.

 

[Lion222]

I don't want my kids inheriting my sin. I also don't want them to suffer for my failings and my deficiencies and my lack. But worst of all the thought of having my kids suffering because I made a mistake is something I will not stand for. Is that cowardice? Or thoughtful benevolence?

BTW one of the most persistent prayers at the prayer meetings at our church, is for their unsaved children. Same goes with my wife's family. Now that is a failure that I will never experience.

One of the persist prays in heaven is for Gods children.
We have a Savior who came to take away that sin, so you would not need to pass it on.
Kids can also see a sanctified parent even after they got the bad stuff from them and think Oh So Jesus can change me too then.

There is no down side with God, other then being willing to suffer against sin for Glory sake.
To that the apostle says, it it not even worthy to be counted.

 

[cv5]

With extremely rare exception, I don't trust any adult over 30 that isn't married with kids. I think it's incredibly selfish. Here's why:

Your parents sacrificed some of their wants and desires to bring you into this world and raise you.
Your grandparents sacrificed some of their wants and desires to bring your parents into this world and raise them.
You great-grandparents sacrificed some of their wants and desires to bring your grandparents into this world and raise them.
And that pattern went back hundreds of generations.
And now that you're choosing to not continue their work, you're saying to ALL of them that they did all that sacrifice just for you!

Besides, children are an absolute blessing from God. If you don't have kids, you have NO IDEA what I'm talking about. I learned so much about love through my kids. I think anyone that doesn't have kids doesn't know jack about love. They are the only ones you'll ever have a chance of loving unconditionally. When you see your son or daughter for the first time you realize that EVERYONE else you might love - that love is contractual. Even our love for Jesus is contractual - we love Him because He first loved us. That's contractual. My wife could potentially do something that would make me not love her anymore. That's contractual. But my kids? I absolutely loved them beyond what I can begin to describe from the moment I heard their first cry. That's not contractual! They didn't earn it. They can't do anything that will make me stop loving them. Ever. That's unconditional. Loves flows downstream - love your children. Respect flows upstream - respect your forefathers. Respect your God. Until you have kids you'll never have a chance of knowing that. You have not really lived until you have kids. You might think you have, but you haven't.

My daughter tells me she loves me. Sometimes I stop and tell her that she thinks she loves me, but once she has a baby of her own, only then will she know how much I love her. I can't wait for that day! Because I'm confident she's gonna say "I see what you were talking about now!" It's going to draw us closer together than we already are. And besides, I can't wait to see grandkids!

Parents aren't"giving up wants and desires" by having kids. They are FULFILLING them.

 

[GWYW_Bob]

We all have our opinions and we all have a right to them.

If you are saying that your pastor told you that the bible teaches that one must attempt to have children because the scripture says in Gen 1:28...

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. ...

And also after the flood in Gen 6:1 he said....

And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

I would say that the command to be fruitful and multiply applied to those he was speaking too and that the mission was long since accomplished.

Heremeneutics (the art and science of interpretation of scripture) has a list of rules one of them being to ask the question "Who was he speaking to, what were the historical and culture settings, how would this apply to us today etc..." Common sense I know but nevertheless they are questions that should be asked. In this instance there was a need to populate the earth. That is no longer a need and this is not still the mission of the Church. Jesus never once mentioned it as part of the Great Commission to go into all the world and teach all nations to obey his commandments and Jesus never commanded anyone to be fruitful and mutiply and replenish the earth.

Then we have Paul in 1 Cor 7 saying that for the sake of un-distracted focus on service to the Lord and the present circumstances of those in Corinth who asked him the question. it was better if they could control their sex drive to stay unmarried but if they could not to marry for it was better to marry than to burn. He does not say that children should then be the mans focus he simply said that it would be a solution to the sex issue. So yes. Paul said for the purpose of SEX one should marry and he said nothing about a COMMAND to have children in order to populate the post diluvian world.

Christians are under the God given mission to be fruitful by sharing the gospel and bringing others into saving faith of Jesus Christ. That is our current mission. You are not sinning by not having children. You are not sinning if you do.

That is my opinion on what the bible says on this topic. Have a child because you want to, not because you think it is sinful not to. Think about doing all things from the motivation of Love. God bless and may you have a whole quiver full. (I heard a quiver of arrows was 5, lol, I have no idea if it is true)

From the Institue of Creation Research---This "dominion mandate," as it has been called, was the very first command of God to the first man and woman. It applies to the whole earth; all its processes, and all its creatures. To subdue the earth and control it implies the development of science and technology, commerce and education--indeed every honorable human vocation. As God's first "great commission," it applies to all people and has never been withdrawn. God even expanded it to Noah after the Flood (Genesis 9:1-7), twice repeating the command to "be fruitful, and multiply."

In order to really subdue and exercise dominion over the earth, a large population would be necessary. Despite all the concern in modern times about population growth, God's command has never yet been fully accomplished. Vast areas of the earth are still barren and undeveloped.

https://www.icr.org/article/be-fruitful-multiply/

 

[surfer14]

CV5,
You're doing a great job of presenting a bunch of fancy arguments for not following a clear mandate from God. I think you're just scared of it and rationalizing to yourself. That's understandable. What I'm trying to tell you is that children are a good thing - beyond what I ever would have imagined.

Indiangirl,
You might be right about the only unconditional love being from God. But I'm telling you that until we had kids, we had no idea what that even meant. I think the love we have for our children gives a glimmer of perspective to the love God has for us.

Additionally, I also used to scoff at the notion of identity and blood connection. I actively rejected it. Things happened and I learned how wrong I was.

Never forget this: If the observable facts do not match up to your theories/opinions, then you must change your theories/opinions to match the facts. To do otherwise is cognitive dissonance.

 

[cv5]

From the Institue of Creation Research---This "dominion mandate," as it has been called, was the very first command of God to the first man and woman. It applies to the whole earth; all its processes, and all its creatures. To subdue the earth and control it implies the development of science and technology, commerce and education--indeed every honorable human vocation. As God's first "great commission," it applies to all people and has never been withdrawn. God even expanded it to Noah after the Flood (Genesis 9:1-7), twice repeating the command to "be fruitful, and multiply."

In order to really subdue and exercise dominion over the earth, a large population would be necessary. Despite all the concern in modern times about population growth, God's command has never yet been fully accomplished. Vast areas of the earth are still barren and undeveloped.

https://www.icr.org/article/be-fruitful-multiply/

IMO....the New Covenant supersedes and nullifies that command.
We are to preach the Gospel and occupy till He comes. Occupy not multiply.

 

[cv5]

CV5,
You're doing a great job of presenting a bunch of fancy arguments for not following a clear mandate from God. I think you're just scared of it and rationalizing to yourself. That's understandable. What I'm trying to tell you is that children are a good thing - beyond what I ever would have imagined.

Indiangirl,
You might be right about the only unconditional love being from God. But I'm telling you that until we had kids, we had no idea what that even meant. I think the love we have for our children gives a glimmer of perspective to the love God has for us.

Additionally, I also used to scoff at the notion of identity and blood connection. I actively rejected it. Things happened and I learned how wrong I was.

Never forget this: If the observable facts do not match up to your theories/opinions, then you must change your theories/opinions to match the facts. To do otherwise is cognitive dissonance.

I have no ambitions for as far as this life is concerned. I am waiting for the next life the real life.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

The Bible states that marriage/children are a blessing, and also singlehood is a blessing (1 Cor. 7:7). Can everyone at least agree on this? There is no mandate to marry, otherwise what Paul says about singlehood and remaining single would be false. I see this as a big contradiction. How does someone who believes there is a mandate to marry, reconcile this with what Paul says?

Also, the New Testament has a different creation mandate:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age," (Matthew 28:19-20).