Re-Criminalize abortion; 30-days to 9-months
- Thread starter HeraldtheNews
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One simple question: Who creates life ?
satan does not create life.
humans do not create life.
Only God creates life, so why then do people go about to destroy what God is trying to create?
To me the definition of Abortion is: The act of destroying a life that God is creating.
God determines who is barren and who is fertile.
^i^
satan does not create life.
humans do not create life.
Only God creates life, so why then do people go about to destroy what God is trying to create?
To me the definition of Abortion is: The act of destroying a life that God is creating.
God determines who is barren and who is fertile.
^i^
'Who are you to judge another's servant'.
The word of God is not for outward enforcement.
Humility has only power and control over itself.
Even Eve had choice. As did Adam. As do all people.
God has set down human lawkeepers to save many many troubles and heartaches and atrocities.
But were we a better minded people, there would be no need for law.
If each person took account for their own sins, people would soon realise the worthlessness that outward enforcement has compared to inward, honest assessment.
I am not to judge the woman who makes her choice, because her choice is afforded her BY GOD, not by men.
Her life is given her by God, not by men.
The childs life is given her by GOD, not by men.
So let her make the choice GOD gave her the right to, and let GOD judge her, rightly.
He will know her mind and heart.
I DO NOT KNOW HER MIND AND HEART>
The word of God is not for outward enforcement.
Humility has only power and control over itself.
Even Eve had choice. As did Adam. As do all people.
God has set down human lawkeepers to save many many troubles and heartaches and atrocities.
But were we a better minded people, there would be no need for law.
If each person took account for their own sins, people would soon realise the worthlessness that outward enforcement has compared to inward, honest assessment.
I am not to judge the woman who makes her choice, because her choice is afforded her BY GOD, not by men.
Her life is given her by God, not by men.
The childs life is given her by GOD, not by men.
So let her make the choice GOD gave her the right to, and let GOD judge her, rightly.
He will know her mind and heart.
I DO NOT KNOW HER MIND AND HEART>
H
The topic of "abortion" is very dear to me, and I know that everyone may not agree with my opinion...but...in talking about abortion, I feel, that in order for someone to really have an opinion on the matter, you have to really understand WHAT abortion is, not only in the "intellectual" sense but also the physical aspect of abortion, and more then that, the emotion and spiritual consequences that comes with it.
It is all fine and dandy to say that abortion should be legal in certain cases (like if someone is raped or going to die if they don't have an abortion), but that does not take into account the physical, spiritual, and emotional consequences of actually having an abortion. In theory it sounds great, in reality - it's really not. I know that my opinion may not necessarily be popular, and we can talk about Human Rights like they are the absolute truth on the matter, but that doesn't negate the dire effects that abortion has on an individual, whether the child (because that is what it is) is 4 weeks old or 40 weeks old. You can paint it with a nice brush and say it isn't murder, but if someone did that to your mother, or brother, or spouse, or child (that had the good fortune to be born), then we would all scream bloody murder! You can say there is a difference, but there really isn't.
Murder is murder, regardless of the form that it takes. You are still playing God and deciding life or death for another person. Obviously, if someone is raped then the situation is a little different, but unfortunately the facts are still the same. I don't know how many women have abortions because of being victimized like this, but I can guess that there are probably much fewer abortions because of rape, then there are for just unwanted, unexpected, pregnancies. So, I end with this...God made sex for procreation. It really shouldn't come as a big surprise if having sex ends in a pregnancy. Seriously.
It is all fine and dandy to say that abortion should be legal in certain cases (like if someone is raped or going to die if they don't have an abortion), but that does not take into account the physical, spiritual, and emotional consequences of actually having an abortion. In theory it sounds great, in reality - it's really not. I know that my opinion may not necessarily be popular, and we can talk about Human Rights like they are the absolute truth on the matter, but that doesn't negate the dire effects that abortion has on an individual, whether the child (because that is what it is) is 4 weeks old or 40 weeks old. You can paint it with a nice brush and say it isn't murder, but if someone did that to your mother, or brother, or spouse, or child (that had the good fortune to be born), then we would all scream bloody murder! You can say there is a difference, but there really isn't.
Murder is murder, regardless of the form that it takes. You are still playing God and deciding life or death for another person. Obviously, if someone is raped then the situation is a little different, but unfortunately the facts are still the same. I don't know how many women have abortions because of being victimized like this, but I can guess that there are probably much fewer abortions because of rape, then there are for just unwanted, unexpected, pregnancies. So, I end with this...God made sex for procreation. It really shouldn't come as a big surprise if having sex ends in a pregnancy. Seriously.
People always find what they want.
I'm speaking of those who follow the god of this world while trying to hide behind
'christianity'.
The killing of the innocent is all over both testaments as being heinous.
To say a baby is not living because it hasn't drawn a breath is breathtakingly stupid.
........own DNA, own heartbeat, own brain, own sensory nervous system, and on and on.
Behold the severity of the truth now; because you will eventually have to anyway.
I'm speaking of those who follow the god of this world while trying to hide behind
'christianity'.
The killing of the innocent is all over both testaments as being heinous.
To say a baby is not living because it hasn't drawn a breath is breathtakingly stupid.
........own DNA, own heartbeat, own brain, own sensory nervous system, and on and on.
Behold the severity of the truth now; because you will eventually have to anyway.
No I would play God by taking away someone else's choice to do as they wish with their own bodies. I judge MYSELF, not others.
I make rules for MYSELF, not others.
I make MY CHOICES, not others'.
The only person who is qualified to make a decision on this kind of thing is the person who is in it. The pregnant woman herself. The same way I would wish YOU to be afforded your choice of the day ever came that you found yourself in difficult circumstance. And your choice may not be the same choice another person may make.
Jesus tells us not to judge others. Do you think Jesus would say 'I FORBID YOU TO HAVE A CHOICE'.
Did Jesus stop the people who came and hurt Him and took Him?
Did He STOP the adulterous woman? Did He tell the people who wanted to stone her 'I FORBID YOU'.
No, He said 'let He who is without sin cast the first stone'.
We have a choice. Let's look at abortion and say it is a sin, first of all.
Now, do we have the right to sins? Yes, we do. All men have the right to sin. The right to CHOOSE what they do. As do women.
Abortion may be wrong, but forcing people into NOT BEING ALLOWED THE CHOICE is the worse evil.
The Pharisees tried to get people into law, to preach through fear and deny people choice and freedom.
God does not want us to come to Him through fear of Hell. He wants us to come to Him via the realisation that what He asks of us is BENIFICIAL FOR ALL.
If i say to the drug dealer, 'don't do this or you'll go to jail', he then has a habit he cannot control, PLUS the fear of jail.
If I say to a woman 'YOU MUST CARRY THIS CHILD FOR NINE MONTHS IN YOUR WOMB, GIVE BORTH TO IT AND SUPPORT IT ALL IT's LIFE OR ELSE YOU WILL GO TO JAIL', it will almost destroy her if she does not want the child.
I would rather try to support her and make her actually want the child in some way. To see the situation in a different light. To have love in her heart rather than fear.
IF she still chose to abort the child, God will know her mind and heart and can judge her rightly. it is not for me to judge.
The same way, why does a murderer murder? Or a theif steal?
Does a murderer murder just because he can? Who would murder JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN?
There is always an underlying anger, hatred for the world, or some fear. Some emotion. Some MOTIVE.
There are people who will say 'no, some serial killers murdered for fun'. But actually, they have psychological issues. The absence of empathy. The absence of compassion. The absence of love. Delusions. Or ideals. Or they were beaten as cihldren. SOMETHING LED THEM TO BE THAT WAY.
It could have been they took a knock on the head. They were subjected to heroin in the womb. Their mom's were alcoholics. They had abusive fathers.
BUT NOBODY CAN TRULY KNOW EXCEPT GOD.
Yes, they are locked away for the safety of others and for their own safety, but what point would jail for abortion serve?
The woman is no harm to her, or others, only to the baby inside her. but she made the choice regardless. The baby will be dead. So it is punishment for the sake of punishment.
Do you really think she will genuinely regret what she did? No. She will just hate society for imprisoning her.
Educate, love. Not condemn.
Punishment for the sake of punishment is a pointless tool.
Just to say 'they deserve jail, they killed a baby', is like saying 'they deserve burned because their circumstances dictated the way they think'.
People don't do things without a reason THAT SEEMS GOOD ENOUGH TO THEM. IN THEIR EMOTIONS, IT IS SUFFICIENT.
I cannot argue with someone's emotion.
What I would do is look at how Jesus speaks.
Jesus says to us to love one another.
What love is their in hating her? Imprisoning her? Denying her choice that God gave her?
Instead, I should be HUMBLE.
People miss this.
If I am HUMBLE as God wanted, I would say to her 'I WILL HELP YOU RAISE THE CHILD'.
You will be fine. I will look out for you.
I will not let you fail.
I will be patient with her. Kind with her. I will not anger easily. I will not judge her. I will not condemn her. I will suffer long. I will be self sacrificing toward her.
God is as Jesus is. They share a will.
God's forgiveness is just like Jesus' forgiveness.
We may not see it, but LIFE pushes women to these kind of choices. Fathers who no longer love their own children. Parents who no longer have morality. Society that no longer cares for people such as these; the prostitutes, the sickly, the weak, the poor. The blind.
But hey, we only deserve love if we are perfect, right? ...
Such a shame.
I make rules for MYSELF, not others.
I make MY CHOICES, not others'.
The only person who is qualified to make a decision on this kind of thing is the person who is in it. The pregnant woman herself. The same way I would wish YOU to be afforded your choice of the day ever came that you found yourself in difficult circumstance. And your choice may not be the same choice another person may make.
Jesus tells us not to judge others. Do you think Jesus would say 'I FORBID YOU TO HAVE A CHOICE'.
Did Jesus stop the people who came and hurt Him and took Him?
Did He STOP the adulterous woman? Did He tell the people who wanted to stone her 'I FORBID YOU'.
No, He said 'let He who is without sin cast the first stone'.
We have a choice. Let's look at abortion and say it is a sin, first of all.
Now, do we have the right to sins? Yes, we do. All men have the right to sin. The right to CHOOSE what they do. As do women.
Abortion may be wrong, but forcing people into NOT BEING ALLOWED THE CHOICE is the worse evil.
The Pharisees tried to get people into law, to preach through fear and deny people choice and freedom.
God does not want us to come to Him through fear of Hell. He wants us to come to Him via the realisation that what He asks of us is BENIFICIAL FOR ALL.
If i say to the drug dealer, 'don't do this or you'll go to jail', he then has a habit he cannot control, PLUS the fear of jail.
If I say to a woman 'YOU MUST CARRY THIS CHILD FOR NINE MONTHS IN YOUR WOMB, GIVE BORTH TO IT AND SUPPORT IT ALL IT's LIFE OR ELSE YOU WILL GO TO JAIL', it will almost destroy her if she does not want the child.
I would rather try to support her and make her actually want the child in some way. To see the situation in a different light. To have love in her heart rather than fear.
IF she still chose to abort the child, God will know her mind and heart and can judge her rightly. it is not for me to judge.
The same way, why does a murderer murder? Or a theif steal?
Does a murderer murder just because he can? Who would murder JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN?
There is always an underlying anger, hatred for the world, or some fear. Some emotion. Some MOTIVE.
There are people who will say 'no, some serial killers murdered for fun'. But actually, they have psychological issues. The absence of empathy. The absence of compassion. The absence of love. Delusions. Or ideals. Or they were beaten as cihldren. SOMETHING LED THEM TO BE THAT WAY.
It could have been they took a knock on the head. They were subjected to heroin in the womb. Their mom's were alcoholics. They had abusive fathers.
BUT NOBODY CAN TRULY KNOW EXCEPT GOD.
Yes, they are locked away for the safety of others and for their own safety, but what point would jail for abortion serve?
The woman is no harm to her, or others, only to the baby inside her. but she made the choice regardless. The baby will be dead. So it is punishment for the sake of punishment.
Do you really think she will genuinely regret what she did? No. She will just hate society for imprisoning her.
Educate, love. Not condemn.
Punishment for the sake of punishment is a pointless tool.
Just to say 'they deserve jail, they killed a baby', is like saying 'they deserve burned because their circumstances dictated the way they think'.
People don't do things without a reason THAT SEEMS GOOD ENOUGH TO THEM. IN THEIR EMOTIONS, IT IS SUFFICIENT.
I cannot argue with someone's emotion.
What I would do is look at how Jesus speaks.
Jesus says to us to love one another.
What love is their in hating her? Imprisoning her? Denying her choice that God gave her?
Instead, I should be HUMBLE.
People miss this.
If I am HUMBLE as God wanted, I would say to her 'I WILL HELP YOU RAISE THE CHILD'.
You will be fine. I will look out for you.
I will not let you fail.
I will be patient with her. Kind with her. I will not anger easily. I will not judge her. I will not condemn her. I will suffer long. I will be self sacrificing toward her.
God is as Jesus is. They share a will.
God's forgiveness is just like Jesus' forgiveness.
We may not see it, but LIFE pushes women to these kind of choices. Fathers who no longer love their own children. Parents who no longer have morality. Society that no longer cares for people such as these; the prostitutes, the sickly, the weak, the poor. The blind.
But hey, we only deserve love if we are perfect, right? ...
Such a shame.
I understand what a life is. It pains me as much as anyone to see a child die. I have nieces and nephews, cousins, sisters and brothers. I have had a young child die in front of me as a child. It is not a pretty sight. But two evils do not make something better for anyone.
I can also pity the woman and have compassion for her, as well as the child.
The woman is a person too.
Everybody has an opinion on abortion. Have you ever been through the situation??
If you have, I am sorry for you. And whatever choice you made, I am sure that there was a reason. Perhaps you regret it, but I would always afford you your own choice.
If I were a woman, I would want mine too.
I can also pity the woman and have compassion for her, as well as the child.
The woman is a person too.
Everybody has an opinion on abortion. Have you ever been through the situation??
If you have, I am sorry for you. And whatever choice you made, I am sure that there was a reason. Perhaps you regret it, but I would always afford you your own choice.
If I were a woman, I would want mine too.
True, that is the flesh aspect of it. But it is God that allows the sperm cell to reach the egg cell and become fertilized. God decides who will get pregnant and who will not. When a life is created in a female body, it is only because God is granting that person the ability to have that life, and He supplies the spirit that creates that life, the Breath of God (spirit).
God does not put the spirit in a body the moment that body starts to breath on its own. The Spirit enters the body the moment it is conceived, the moment the two cells are joined and start to multiply.
Again, God determines who will have life and who will not have life. God is the creator of LIFE. NOT humans. Two humans can have sexual relations for years and never become pregnant, it is God who decides who will become pregnant and who will not become pregnant. It is God who allows the fertilization to take place in the first place, and He allows that process to happen, because it is His will that that person becomes pregnant, if it were not His will that that person becomes pregnant, then He would not have allowed that person to become pregnant. God creates life. When humans believe they create life, and not God is when humans decide to destroy the life that is created in them, because they created it. They do not understand it is God who created the fetus in the first place, not themselves.
^i^
God does not put the spirit in a body the moment that body starts to breath on its own. The Spirit enters the body the moment it is conceived, the moment the two cells are joined and start to multiply.
Again, God determines who will have life and who will not have life. God is the creator of LIFE. NOT humans. Two humans can have sexual relations for years and never become pregnant, it is God who decides who will become pregnant and who will not become pregnant. It is God who allows the fertilization to take place in the first place, and He allows that process to happen, because it is His will that that person becomes pregnant, if it were not His will that that person becomes pregnant, then He would not have allowed that person to become pregnant. God creates life. When humans believe they create life, and not God is when humans decide to destroy the life that is created in them, because they created it. They do not understand it is God who created the fetus in the first place, not themselves.
^i^
Then God would have created the life knowing it would be destroyed.
God makes people. Their circumstances dictate their fertility, and if they are fertile enough, they become pregnant.
Am I denied the choice to smoke? Smoking is killing me. Still, do I have that choice?
Do I have the choice to drink alocohol while pregnant? That's not illegal. Yet kids are born with all sorts of problems because of it.
Am I allowed the right to abortion if I feel I cannot bring up a child? Yes.
Forcing a mother into having (and probably hating) her child is bad for both the mum, and the child.
God disagrees with ALL sin.
Conceiving out of wedlock is sin.
Having sex outside marriage is sin.
Lots of things are sin.
The ones there are laws against hurt other people.
So yes, perhaps a child is harmed. And perhaps a mother is harmed.
But either way, if you force a woman who doesnt want a child, to bear that child and bring it up, they are both gonna be hurt.
One sin (aborting the child), is not as bad as a thousand sins (in neglecting, hurting, hating the child) over the course of its life.
God makes people. Their circumstances dictate their fertility, and if they are fertile enough, they become pregnant.
Am I denied the choice to smoke? Smoking is killing me. Still, do I have that choice?
Do I have the choice to drink alocohol while pregnant? That's not illegal. Yet kids are born with all sorts of problems because of it.
Am I allowed the right to abortion if I feel I cannot bring up a child? Yes.
Forcing a mother into having (and probably hating) her child is bad for both the mum, and the child.
God disagrees with ALL sin.
Conceiving out of wedlock is sin.
Having sex outside marriage is sin.
Lots of things are sin.
The ones there are laws against hurt other people.
So yes, perhaps a child is harmed. And perhaps a mother is harmed.
But either way, if you force a woman who doesnt want a child, to bear that child and bring it up, they are both gonna be hurt.
One sin (aborting the child), is not as bad as a thousand sins (in neglecting, hurting, hating the child) over the course of its life.
Truthfully, even rape is NOT a good reason that this generation uses to destroy the life that God is trying to create. Being Raped is a terrible terrible thing indeed, but having a child is a blessing from God above, something great coming from a terrible thing.
Two women who are Raped, one decides to get an Abortion, the other decides to have the baby. The one who did not destroy the child's life has a baby boy, and he grows up saying to his mother all the time "I love you Mom" and she raises and watches her little boy grow up, they share many good times with each other. He makes cards for her, saying how much he loves his Mom, He grows up and makes good grades in school, and he rushes home to show his Mom, his A+ on his report card, she is so proud of him. She watches him go on his first date, and he is so nervous and excited at the same time, she thinks to herself "My boy is all grown up". He grows up and gets married and now he gives his Mom grandchildren that say to her "I love you Grandma". She is so thankful she did not destroy the life that was created in her because of that terrible incident that happened to her, that her boy has been such a blessing to her, came out of a very terrible wicked thing that happened to her.
The other who destroyed the life growing in her, because she was raped, will always wander what it might have been a boy or a girl, always think about her choice she made and always second guess it. She has nothing else.
To me, a person who becomes pregnant from a rape, God is trying to bless that person with a wonderful gift from a situation that is very wicked. God creates life, that rapist did not, she did not = GOD creates life in a person. If people of this generation would believe that Truth, abortion would not be approved of then. If God creates life, we would not destroy what He is trying to create would we. So those who are pro-choice refuse to believe that God creates life, because if they actually believed that God creates life, they would not be pro-choice.
^i^
Two women who are Raped, one decides to get an Abortion, the other decides to have the baby. The one who did not destroy the child's life has a baby boy, and he grows up saying to his mother all the time "I love you Mom" and she raises and watches her little boy grow up, they share many good times with each other. He makes cards for her, saying how much he loves his Mom, He grows up and makes good grades in school, and he rushes home to show his Mom, his A+ on his report card, she is so proud of him. She watches him go on his first date, and he is so nervous and excited at the same time, she thinks to herself "My boy is all grown up". He grows up and gets married and now he gives his Mom grandchildren that say to her "I love you Grandma". She is so thankful she did not destroy the life that was created in her because of that terrible incident that happened to her, that her boy has been such a blessing to her, came out of a very terrible wicked thing that happened to her.
The other who destroyed the life growing in her, because she was raped, will always wander what it might have been a boy or a girl, always think about her choice she made and always second guess it. She has nothing else.
To me, a person who becomes pregnant from a rape, God is trying to bless that person with a wonderful gift from a situation that is very wicked. God creates life, that rapist did not, she did not = GOD creates life in a person. If people of this generation would believe that Truth, abortion would not be approved of then. If God creates life, we would not destroy what He is trying to create would we. So those who are pro-choice refuse to believe that God creates life, because if they actually believed that God creates life, they would not be pro-choice.
^i^
That is one scenario. The other is the child is born. The mother did not wish to have it but society made her. She works hours to support a cild she does not want to support. Neglects the child. Beats the child. Has various men in her life. The fact that she has a son is a bane to her.
The child grows up neglected and abused. The child takes that neglect and abuse out on someone else.
Life is not as rosy as what you have said. Although it's a lovely thought, that mindset accounts for a small number of highly moral people.
The child grows up neglected and abused. The child takes that neglect and abuse out on someone else.
Life is not as rosy as what you have said. Although it's a lovely thought, that mindset accounts for a small number of highly moral people.
The same way, a woman is raped and bares the son of a rapist. She may only see him as the offspring of an evil man. Although I could say 'But he is not the rapist', the woman still brings up a rapists child. Even giving birth to the poor thing would disgust and upset her.
The truth is, children need to be brought into the world out of love. If the woman has sufficient LOVE to overlook these things, then kudos to her. If she does not, both her life and the childs would not be served well by her being forced to GIVE BIRTH.
I'm going to be graphic. Anyone who is easily offended, stop reading.
During a rape, a man forces himself inside a woman. He hurts her. Hits her in all probability. Leaves her shamed. She is ahsmed of it, though it is not her fault. She is scared of men. She is violated.
She becomes pregnant by this man. This evil criminal. This rapist.
She is told 'YOU MUST HAVE THIS BABY'.
WHAT? she thinks. I MUST HAVE THE CHILD OF A MAN WHO FORCED HIMMSELF UPON ME AND IMPREGNATED ME AGAINST MY WILL.
You tell me, DiscipleDave, how would you feel?
I would feel anger beyond belief. Hatred in fact. I would say 'NO> THIS IS MY BODY > MY CHOICE'.
In all likelihood, I would have an abortion.
But If society instead said to me 'I am sorry for this. You have your own choice. I would wish this on nobody. I am here for you'.
Perhaps, out of that love and kindness, I might say, 'well this is not the child's fault. Why should it die for the sin of another when people CAN AND DO HAVE KINDNESS IN THEM'.
To give birth: A womans cervix dilates (painfully) to almost the size of a babies head.
When a woman 'crowns', the pain level is up to 70 del. They say 45 is as exruciating as it gets for most people (besides torture victims and the like, because most pain is actually ANXIETY OF PAIN).
Can you imagine the anxiety of pain a woman would feel giving birth to a child she was raped into conceiving?
It is utterly SICK to FORCE a woman to go through this, in ANY circumstance, against her own will.
Perhaps the girl was fifteen. Naive of what may happen if she has sex. The same thing applies. This is HER BODY that has to take this battering and her life that has to sustain this childs. The father holds little legal responsibility, nevermind moral.
In a perfect world, these things would not happen. But it is not a perfect world.
And love does not force people into things.
The truth is, children need to be brought into the world out of love. If the woman has sufficient LOVE to overlook these things, then kudos to her. If she does not, both her life and the childs would not be served well by her being forced to GIVE BIRTH.
I'm going to be graphic. Anyone who is easily offended, stop reading.
During a rape, a man forces himself inside a woman. He hurts her. Hits her in all probability. Leaves her shamed. She is ahsmed of it, though it is not her fault. She is scared of men. She is violated.
She becomes pregnant by this man. This evil criminal. This rapist.
She is told 'YOU MUST HAVE THIS BABY'.
WHAT? she thinks. I MUST HAVE THE CHILD OF A MAN WHO FORCED HIMMSELF UPON ME AND IMPREGNATED ME AGAINST MY WILL.
You tell me, DiscipleDave, how would you feel?
I would feel anger beyond belief. Hatred in fact. I would say 'NO> THIS IS MY BODY > MY CHOICE'.
In all likelihood, I would have an abortion.
But If society instead said to me 'I am sorry for this. You have your own choice. I would wish this on nobody. I am here for you'.
Perhaps, out of that love and kindness, I might say, 'well this is not the child's fault. Why should it die for the sin of another when people CAN AND DO HAVE KINDNESS IN THEM'.
To give birth: A womans cervix dilates (painfully) to almost the size of a babies head.
When a woman 'crowns', the pain level is up to 70 del. They say 45 is as exruciating as it gets for most people (besides torture victims and the like, because most pain is actually ANXIETY OF PAIN).
Can you imagine the anxiety of pain a woman would feel giving birth to a child she was raped into conceiving?
It is utterly SICK to FORCE a woman to go through this, in ANY circumstance, against her own will.
Perhaps the girl was fifteen. Naive of what may happen if she has sex. The same thing applies. This is HER BODY that has to take this battering and her life that has to sustain this childs. The father holds little legal responsibility, nevermind moral.
In a perfect world, these things would not happen. But it is not a perfect world.
And love does not force people into things.
i understand what you are saying, and you are basically right to some degree. But what i think you fail to understand is that we are to judge righteous judgements. If then a person chooses to sin, then it is a Godly thing to address that person and tell them that it is sinful.
IJohn5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sinwhich is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
If then it is a sin to KILL, then it is a righteous judgement to teach people who are killing that it is sinful, to fail to tell them it is sinful is to commit sin, by not doing what the Bible tells them to do.
True everyone should judge themselves, that is very True, but if you see another sin, you should address that issue as well.
John7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
It is a righteous judgment to teach people to not kill, yes? Killing is a sin. To teach people not to sin is a righteous act.
True the woman has a free choice to keep her baby or to abort it, she can choose to commit sin, or to keep the life that God is trying to create in her. So you are right she has a choice, and it is true we should not judge her if she has already made the choice and committed the sin. But we a servants of God should teach and try to prevent this unnecessary killing from continuing to happen, yes?
Likewise using the same philosophy. a woman has a choice to steal money from her company or to not steal money from her company. True it is her choice and her choice alone to make, but that should not stop Christians from warning her or trying to teach her that stealing is wrong and sinful, no matter how many excuses she comes up with to continue to want to steal from her company.
Abortion is a sin, it is killing. It is not wrong or evil to try to teach people to stop doing such things.
i do see where you are coming from, and you are right to some degree, You are definitely right on the money for things that are not sinful, but you do error in things that are sinful. If it is contrary to Scriptures, this you should judge.
Please, please read my chapter on "To Judge or Not To Judge" for more in depth information. On what is righteous Judgements.
^i^
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IJohn5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sinwhich is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
If then it is a sin to KILL, then it is a righteous judgement to teach people who are killing that it is sinful, to fail to tell them it is sinful is to commit sin, by not doing what the Bible tells them to do.
True everyone should judge themselves, that is very True, but if you see another sin, you should address that issue as well.
John7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
It is a righteous judgment to teach people to not kill, yes? Killing is a sin. To teach people not to sin is a righteous act.
True the woman has a free choice to keep her baby or to abort it, she can choose to commit sin, or to keep the life that God is trying to create in her. So you are right she has a choice, and it is true we should not judge her if she has already made the choice and committed the sin. But we a servants of God should teach and try to prevent this unnecessary killing from continuing to happen, yes?
Likewise using the same philosophy. a woman has a choice to steal money from her company or to not steal money from her company. True it is her choice and her choice alone to make, but that should not stop Christians from warning her or trying to teach her that stealing is wrong and sinful, no matter how many excuses she comes up with to continue to want to steal from her company.
Abortion is a sin, it is killing. It is not wrong or evil to try to teach people to stop doing such things.
i do see where you are coming from, and you are right to some degree, You are definitely right on the money for things that are not sinful, but you do error in things that are sinful. If it is contrary to Scriptures, this you should judge.
Please, please read my chapter on "To Judge or Not To Judge" for more in depth information. On what is righteous Judgements.
^i^
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Everyone has a choice they can make, Everyone has the freedom to choose. That is why God gave us free-will. So that we freely choose, that we freely make a choice to either obey God or to disobey Him.
Every woman who gets pregnant has a free choice to abort her baby. She can choose to sin, or choose to keep the baby. The choice is freely hers to make and nobody can make that choice for her. This does not negate the fact that Christians are to try to prevent her from making a sinful choice. It is the Christians duty to try to help her make the right choices, that is to keep what God is trying to create in her.
i don't think nobody is saying a woman should not have the choice. They all have a choice. Everyone has a choice, whether to commit sin or to obey God and not sin. Free will is granted to all, and for a reason. God wants to see what choices we will make.
The world is in the condition that it is in, because Christians say nothing at all. It is the Christians responsibility to try to get people to walk in the teachings of Christ, if you see someone who is about to sin, or is living in sin, then Jesus would want you to address that person, to confront that person about his living in sin or about to sin, so that they may choose freely the choice that they are going to make even though you (the Christian) has warned them, that maybe they will turn from the sinning against Christ by your warning. It matters not if they actually listen to you or not, you have done what God requires of you, you have warned them, that is all you can do.
So there is nothing wrong to warn people to stop killing what God is trying to create. i am not judging them, it is not for me to judge them, but is for me to warn them that God will judge them for their deeds. i do not judge them but God will judge them for killing what He is trying to create. So you are absolutely right, we are not to judge them or anyone at all, but we are to judge righteous judgements, and righteous judgments are what the Scriptures teach.
hope this has helped in some way.
^i^
Actually the verse in John. it means:
If you see a believer commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray to God, who will give that person life. This applies to those whose sins do not lead to death. But there is sin which leads to death, and I do not say that you should pray to God about that.
THe fact is Disciple, I agree. People have choice. I would not make it illegal for a woman to choose. And you're right when you say we should stem her away from making the choice to abort.
But it is down to how it is done.
'Dont do this or you will go to hell' does not help at all.
The only thing that I need do is show her love. That's it. Simple compassion.
That work speaks volumes for itself. Compassion and love overcome things.
By showing her love, I pray to God for her. I show my faith in God, Jesus, and in love to her.
And what she takes will be what she takes.
She still have the choice afforded her. it's HERS to make.
If you see a believer commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray to God, who will give that person life. This applies to those whose sins do not lead to death. But there is sin which leads to death, and I do not say that you should pray to God about that.
THe fact is Disciple, I agree. People have choice. I would not make it illegal for a woman to choose. And you're right when you say we should stem her away from making the choice to abort.
But it is down to how it is done.
'Dont do this or you will go to hell' does not help at all.
The only thing that I need do is show her love. That's it. Simple compassion.
That work speaks volumes for itself. Compassion and love overcome things.
By showing her love, I pray to God for her. I show my faith in God, Jesus, and in love to her.
And what she takes will be what she takes.
She still have the choice afforded her. it's HERS to make.
What I should do is say ' I will help you ' Not ' God will condemn you'.
People think God is unknowing and unwitting. But in fact, God's forgiveness and love are infinitely more powerful than ours though.
If even I can show her compassion in time of need, how much greater will God's be nomatter what decision she makes? God is the support of the world.
And you know what, in knowing this, as the raped woman, it may just change my whole perception on everything.
This s faith; To believe that ALL great things are possible through God.
The simplest affection can bring so much different results.
People think God is unknowing and unwitting. But in fact, God's forgiveness and love are infinitely more powerful than ours though.
If even I can show her compassion in time of need, how much greater will God's be nomatter what decision she makes? God is the support of the world.
And you know what, in knowing this, as the raped woman, it may just change my whole perception on everything.
This s faith; To believe that ALL great things are possible through God.
The simplest affection can bring so much different results.
Criminalizing abortion won't solve anything, it will cause needless deaths of women who would get them from the back ally. I don't like abortion (nor do I know anyone who LIKES it.) I am however pro choice. If "God is Love" as I've been told repeatedly then people should show love and support and not condemnation to people who are put in a horrible position in the first place, that doesn't mean tell everyone to go out and get an abortion it means you help them through the hardship with whatever decision they end up making, either way it's life changing (regardless if you chose to keep, adopt or abort). They need love.