13 Russians Charged for Election Meddling

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Tommy379

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2016
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#21
This isn't just a cold war to present thing. This has been going on since bedore there was a USA.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#22
It's hardly even that.

I think their game is "Well, we are still adversaries with the Americans, but we don't have the resources to do what we did during the Cold War. Why don't we just make it look like we're doing something and watch their Western heads spin? Trollolololl...Comrade"

Don't feed them.

This isn't just a cold war to present thing. This has been going on since bedore there was a USA.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#23
For the record, I don't support the Russian government. I think they are less powerful and even more screwed up than our own. A lot of the pro-religion, pro-family stuff is a mask for a country drenched in vodka and suicide.

It's very tragic. If only the Green/White Russians won a hundred years ago.
 

Tommy379

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2016
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#24
I read a lot of history, and I remember reading about propaganda campaigns during the 7 years war. Stuff like that.

Russia spreading fake news didn't make Trump win..... Hillary did.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#25
Yeah.

Even her own campaign staff saw the Russian interference thing as her own personal boogeyman. They were happy to go with it when they lost because it re-directed fire away from them.

Their main charge at the time was that Wikileaks got their information from Russian hackers. Assange denied it though and, say what you like about him, he's pretty honest about where he doesn't get his information from. Has been since W. was President.

Read Shattered. Awesome book about how screwed up the Clinton campaign was. Written by Dems.

I read a lot of history, and I remember reading about propaganda campaigns during the 7 years war. Stuff like that.

Russia spreading fake news didn't make Trump win..... Hillary did.
 

Tommy379

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,209
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#26
Yeah.

Even her own campaign staff saw the Russian interference thing as her own personal boogeyman. They were happy to go with it when they lost because it re-directed fire away from them.

Their main charge at the time was that Wikileaks got their information from Russian hackers. Assange denied it though and, say what you like about him, he's pretty honest about where he doesn't get his information from. Has been since W. was President.

Read Shattered. Awesome book about how screwed up the Clinton campaign was. Written by Dems.
I will pick that up. I just assumed she lost cause she comes off as a bad person.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#27
That's pretty much the book's central thesis. She was a poor candidate who couldn't get her own house in order let alone convince any swing state voters. There were so many bizarre instances where the campaign would call up field organizers and activist groups and tell them not to do anything. It was a mad house.



I will pick that up. I just assumed she lost cause she comes off as a bad person.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#28
But yeah, it was Putin, Jim Comey, Julian Assange, and the martians that lost it for her.

Give...me...a break.

I'm no Obama fan, but if it was Trump's campaign vs. O 2008, it would've been wayyyyyy closer.
 

Tommy379

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2016
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#29
I know while they kept publishing national polls to show Hillary would win, there was an alt news Christian guy on youtube, who showed individual polls daily in different citiea and states, and was predicting the whole time from the conventions, Trump would win.
 

Tommy379

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,209
227
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#30
But yeah, it was Putin, Jim Comey, Julian Assange, and the martians that lost it for her.

Give...me...a break.

I'm no Obama fan, but if it was Trump's campaign vs. O 2008, it would've been wayyyyyy closer.
I saw a demonstration, if Trump had ran in 2012, and got the same votes he got in 16, he would have won in 12.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#31
Believe it or not, I managed to predict the outcome pretty closely with the national polls. It's not that the polls were bad. People just shared them without really knowing how to read them. That and the Clinton campaign and mainstream news wanted to make them opinion-shaping stories. Mostly for purposes of voter suppression.

But it sounds like the dude you were watching had it right- national polling methods are troublesome. If you have the time to go small poll by small poll and work your way up, you will generally arrive at a more accurate prediction. Partially because you're thinking about all the different mechanics involved.

I know while they kept publishing national polls to show Hillary would win, there was an alt news Christian guy on youtube, who showed individual polls daily in different citiea and states, and was predicting the whole time from the conventions, Trump would win.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#32
That's tricky. Even if the numbers bore out, a speculative Trump victory would assume a lot of other qualitative factors from 2016 would be present in the 2012 race.

I think Obama would've been too tough a customer in 2012. He also would have Putin on his side :p

I saw a demonstration, if Trump had ran in 2012, and got the same votes he got in 16, he would have won in 12.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#33
Well.

*clasps hands

I think this thread has been perfectly derailed. Tommy and I should apply for positions at Amtrak.
 

Tommy379

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2016
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#34
That's tricky. Even if the numbers bore out, a speculative Trump victory would assume a lot of other qualitative factors from 2016 would be present in the 2012 race.

I think Obama would've been too tough a customer in 2012. He also would have Putin on his side :p
Of course. I thibk it was just a comparison of actual votes in 16 to 12. But every election is different.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#35
Some key Trump counties cast more votes for Romney in 2012. I find that pretty alarming.

2020 will be interesting, to say the least.

Of course. I thibk it was just a comparison of actual votes in 16 to 12. But every election is different.
 

Tommy379

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2016
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#36
Some key Trump counties cast more votes for Romney in 2012. I find that pretty alarming.

2020 will be interesting, to say the least.
I guess the dems might try their own celebrity. Oprah's on.
 

Susanna

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2013
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#39
How precisely are the Russians more successful with election meddling than they were during the Cold War?

Even by your standard of attention paid to the event. At no point in time has there been more spurging out over Russian involvement than now. Not even when Kruschev made it his favorite hobby in the 50's and 60's or when Ted Kennedy went on his little miss-adventure.

I'm willing to believe just about any bad thing concerning a national leader, but I fail to see any special relationship between Trump and Putin. Especially in comparison to Obama and W. who were each more openly conciliatory. Heck, our own military just wiped out more Russian soldiers in one day than at any point during the Cold War.

If the best we can come up with is 13 fake news trolls, then Tommy has it right- our own nation has done its own fair share of interfering with free elections in the last decade alone. We shouldn't shy from tossing stones at Russia, but not while we sit atop a glass house. It's untenable.
If my memory serves me correctly I'm pretty sure I didn't blame Trump in my post.

Quite the contrary.
 

Susanna

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2013
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#40
It's somewhat interesting to observe that once a person is mentioning Russia on here, people will be screaming "Hillary voter" at you instantly. Even though you are literally saying the opposite in your post.

HAHA