4th Industrial Revolution

[studier]

Jesus rebuked Sardis for not watching. Because they did not watch for his coming He said they wouldn't know the hour of His coming. Jesus rebuked the Jews for not knowing the time of their visitation. In hindsight we know that the prophecies were there in the Bible where they should have known the year of His coming, and there were prophets like the Magi who came and there were testimonies from others, news stories, many things that should have waken them up. If they had listened to John when he said "behold the Lamb of God" they would have known Jesus would be the Passover lamb. Jesus charged the disciples repeatedly to watch.

I don't like it when people spend all their time trying to figure out the day of the rapture because it seems the Lord warned us that no one knows and for me that means it was not in the OT prophecies or NT prophecies. But the Lord never said we would not know the year and He also made it clear that if we were watching we would see all the signs He told us about taking place.

For example, what you talked about with digital study tools for the Bible, that was all prophesied in Daniel about knowledge increasing and people running to and fro in the Bible.

The problem with interpretive eschatology as it stands now, and you likely know this, but your views are but one of them. Even the way you apply Daniel could have been and likely has been applied throughout history since knowledge has been increasing for quite some time now.

Since the topic is not really eschatology, I'll leave it at that.

 

[ZNP]

The problem with interpretive eschatology as it stands now, and you likely know this, but your views are but one of them. Even the way you apply Daniel could have been and likely has been applied throughout history since knowledge has been increasing for quite some time now.

Since the topic is not really eschatology, I'll leave it at that.

Knowledge was increasing at a relatively constant rate until we got the printing press, then it increased. It increased again when the radio came out. But it was the internet that caused knowledge to increase at a much more rapid rate.

It may be true that some prophecies might seem to have been interpreted previously. But prior to 1948 all the prophecies concerning Israel were considered allegorical and not literal. So for me, you can eliminate pre 1948 eschatology. But consider this recent attack by Iran on Israel. That was prophesied in Ezekiel that Iran would attack Israel and that was the first time in history that Iran ever attacked Israel. No one could possibly have interpreted any previous historical event as fulfilling that prophecy.

Then of course you have the big prophecy about the mark of the beast. In 1980 we thought about it and it seemed absurd to be able to control what every person on the planet would buy and sell, so we thought Revelation was only referring to Europe. But today with Starlink satellites, RFID chips, and quantum computers it is plausible that you could have a digital currency that is the only way to buy or sell throughout the entire earth.

So yes, it is true that a hundred years ago they had different interpretations, but it is like looking through a camera that is slowly coming into focus. Today we can read prophecies and they are being fulfilled literally without anyone trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

But this whole discussion annuls the word of the Lord. He was the one who commanded us to watch. He is the one who said that we would see these things come to pass. He is the one who gave us a long detailed list of what to look for. He is the one who rebuked Sardis telling them if they would not watch they would be punished.

 

[studier]

Knowledge was increasing at a relatively constant rate until we got the printing press, then it increased. It increased again when the radio came out. But it was the internet that caused knowledge to increase at a much more rapid rate.

It may be true that some prophecies might seem to have been interpreted previously. But prior to 1948 all the prophecies concerning Israel were considered allegorical and not literal. So for me, you can eliminate pre 1948 eschatology. But consider this recent attack by Iran on Israel. That was prophesied in Ezekiel that Iran would attack Israel and that was the first time in history that Iran ever attacked Israel. No one could possibly have interpreted any previous historical event as fulfilling that prophecy.

Then of course you have the big prophecy about the mark of the beast. In 1980 we thought about it and it seemed absurd to be able to control what every person on the planet would buy and sell, so we thought Revelation was only referring to Europe. But today with Starlink satellites, RFID chips, and quantum computers it is plausible that you could have a digital currency that is the only way to buy or sell throughout the entire earth.

So yes, it is true that a hundred years ago they had different interpretations, but it is like looking through a camera that is slowly coming into focus. Today we can read prophecies and they are being fulfilled literally without anyone trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

But this whole discussion annuls the word of the Lord. He was the one who commanded us to watch. He is the one who said that we would see these things come to pass. He is the one who gave us a long detailed list of what to look for. He is the one who rebuked Sardis telling them if they would not watch they would be punished.

I've highlighted a few words and phrases above.

We all get to choose the interpretations that make sense to us.

There remain different interpretations even today.

The interpretive views that differ from yours would say your view annuls the word of our Lord - or at least misinterprets it based upon your eschatological view.

 

[ZNP]

I've highlighted a few words and phrases above.

We all get to choose the interpretations that make sense to us.

There remain different interpretations even today.

The interpretive views that differ from yours would say your view annuls the word of our Lord - or at least misinterprets it based upon your eschatological view.

If I am on the nightwatch and I see a branch move, or a movement in the grass. I could interpret that as a cat, or a raccoon, or a thief. Since I am a nightwatchman it is important that I do not dismiss it as unimportant. If it turns out to be unimportant that doesn't make me wrong, that simply means I was being thorough at my job.

On the other hand the nightwatchman who sees the same thing and says "oh we saw that three years ago, it was a cat" as though that means we don't need to check it out, that guy is wrong.

Then there is the nightwatchman that brings a pillow and ear plugs and says "no one has robbed this place for the last twenty years, so no need to watch" this guy needs to be fired.

I have seen all three types of Christians. I am not the chief priest, Jesus is. But I do know that in the OT they would set this guys clothes on fire and he would have to cast his mantle off and go running through the temple naked. I also know that Jesus warned if we were not like the proper nightwatchman doing our job that would be our punishment as well.

The fact that there have been a wide variety of interpretations doesn't prove any of them is wrong (it could be like the story of blind people describing an elephant). The fact that there have been false prophets also is not an excuse to ignore 25% of the word, instead it proves we are over the target that Satan is desperately trying to throw us off.

 

[studier]

If I am on the nightwatch and I see a branch move, or a movement in the grass. I could interpret that as a cat, or a raccoon, or a thief. Since I am a nightwatchman it is important that I do not dismiss it as unimportant. If it turns out to be unimportant that doesn't make me wrong, that simply means I was being thorough at my job.

On the other hand the nightwatchman who sees the same thing and says "oh we saw that three years ago, it was a cat" as though that means we don't need to check it out, that guy is wrong.

Then there is the nightwatchman that brings a pillow and ear plugs and says "no one has robbed this place for the last twenty years, so no need to watch" this guy needs to be fired.

I have seen all three types of Christians. I am not the chief priest, Jesus is. But I do know that in the OT they would set this guys clothes on fire and he would have to cast his mantle off and go running through the temple naked. I also know that Jesus warned if we were not like the proper nightwatchman doing our job that would be our punishment as well.

The fact that there have been a wide variety of interpretations doesn't prove any of them is wrong (it could be like the story of blind people describing an elephant). The fact that there have been false prophets also is not an excuse to ignore 25% of the word, instead it proves we are over the target that Satan is desperately trying to throw us off.

Varying interpretations neither prove any of them correct.

From what I read, it's clear that no major interpretation is ignoring the Word but simply interpreting it differently. Such assertions made against one another are typically empty argumentation.

What seems to be proof to one group can be and often is folly to another.

Nice analogy, but different watchman function under different training and frameworks.

Not much more to say on the matter. May be watching to see what else comes up on the tech watch.

 

[ZNP]

Varying interpretations neither prove any of them correct.

From what I read, it's clear that no major interpretation is ignoring the Word but simply interpreting it differently. Such assertions made against one another are typically empty argumentation.

What seems to be proof to one group can be and often is folly to another.

Nice analogy, but different watchman function under different training and frameworks.

Not much more to say on the matter. May be watching to see what else comes up on the tech watch.

I understand prophecy to be similar to fractals. There is an underlying geometric shape to a prophecy at various scales. As a result I can interpret Jesus' word in Matthew 24 as being fulfilled in 70AD because it is a fractal, but that is at a much smaller scale whereas other prophecies make it clear that this will grow to encompass the entire earth.

As a result I get more detail on what is happening by both reading the word and studying history. I can see Hitler as an antichrist figure just as John tells us there are many antichrists and this gives me more detail and more of a 3d view.

Ecclesiastes tells us that pattern is prophecy. You look at the pattern of David slaying Goliath, or Samson pushing out the pillars and you can apply that to the end of the age just as much as you can apply Jonah. The most detailed pattern is Jesus' ministry. To me that is the only way to understand the Lord's word when He said that John the Baptist is Elijah who is to come. The pattern we see with Jesus ministry gives us the pattern at the end of the age as well. This is why the seven year tribulation is divided in half into two 3 1/2 year periods, one ends with the death of the two witnesses and their resurrection, the other ends with Armageddon, the death of two thirds of those in Israel and Jesus coming back in glory when they say "blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord".

 

[studier]

Fractals - patterns - is a well known concept. It's taken into account by more than one eschatological interpretation.

Some simple eschatology: 2Cor5:1-10.

Back to AI: AI and Quantum Computing: Glimpsing the Near Future

 

[ZNP]

Fractals - patterns - is a well known concept. It's taken into account by more than one eschatological interpretation.

Some simple eschatology: 2Cor5:1-10.

Back to AI: AI and Quantum Computing: Glimpsing the Near Future

The video is 1 1/2 hours, can you give a short summary of what you liked?

 

[ZNP]

AI News: They're Putting AI into EVERYTHING!?

 

[studier]

The video is 1 1/2 hours, can you give a short summary of what you liked?

Watched half of it and preparing to walk and listen to the rest.

Many things covered. Some of which has been touched on by some here. How quick is the development. How it will cover most all areas of life. How natural it will become to those who use it. How productive any human being who uses it can become. How some of the speed of development is currently hampered by the need for expansive hardware systems and power costs just to do tests and next level development (they spoke of facilities and mostly power costs of $250m just to run another piece of development). As I mentioned earlier, it will put into our pocket a device that one will be able to ask simple or complex questions in our own words, and receive an assemblage of all known data throughout history in a form to answer us. Thus providing the every man to have immediate access to such as those few in history gifted minds able to digest and understand things at a level beyond most.

Re: the human productivity aspect, they make the point that in essence anyone can become a builder because the required information to do so is at hand. The essential research is done and available at the asking of a question. This goes with part of my point earlier. It's a whole new game. Productivity may become something we never imagined. Thus economics the same. Schmidt spoke of the new gen of programmers who can do in a day what it used to take google a month to accomplish. So much codes is written and available that a vast amount can be accomplished just by building/assembling from completed code to complete a project.

There was a story I heard elsewhere re: da Vinci. His notes basically contain designs for what could easily have become a car. The problem was there was no tech to build it. Today tech is working in all areas and at the particles level. With the assist of AI this will all be expedited. The discussion also says there is no way (essentially their words and view) for this to be stopped. It is a global project with multitudes working on it.

As I understood Schmidt, his view was that the not too distant future would show development of somewhere between 1,000 to 10,000 x beyond where it is now, which kind of staggered Greene.

This is happening and happening now. Those who want to sit and think it soon brings back our Lord, can obviously do so. The watchman in me says He could just as easily let knowledge increase to a best of what we can only see in futuristic movies today before He determines to wrap things up. As you know, fractals can continue seemingly forever. One person's last fractal is another generations past.

 

[ZNP]

The Fundamental differences between the Industrial revolution, the technology revolution and the AI revolution.

1. In the industrial revolution you replace a horse with a car, truck or train. But you don't replace the driver. As a result we have seen horses removed from our cities, but not people. Yes, one person could now do more work but that meant the cost for various items decreased. It also meant new jobs to build the machines, service the machines, sell them, etc. The industrial revolution did not replace people, it replaced horses, oxen, etc.

Likewise with the computer revolution. The computer doesn't work by itself. It is not autonomous. Could it do things faster? Yes, but you always need a programmer, you need someone to enter the data, you need someone to build the computer, sell the computer, fix the computer.

Yes, you could get efficiencies by automating processes that save money, but it also created new markets. Instead of going to the movie theater you can download a movie. Instead of going to the book store you can download a book. instead of going to the mall you can order online.

But AI is different, it isn't replacing horses and oxen, it is replacing people. You don't need to buy another computer to access it. All the benefits from the internet are already there.

For example, instead of hiring a firm to make a commercial that will cost $1 million to produce you can use AI to do it for less than 1% of the cost and a fraction of the time. Instead of hiring someone from India to do text support online you can use AI. Instead of hiring programmers to code your software you can let AI do it.

All the previous advances required humans as part of the equation. AI does not need humans as part of the equation. That is the difference.

Now it is true that no one is suggesting 100% removal of humans. But in many industries they are suggesting that AI can do 80% of the jobs. We could easily see 50% of workers lose their jobs. Also we are not talking about jobs no one wants, AI can do white collar jobs by people who get six figure salaries.

2. The second major difference is the time it will take to roll out these advances. The industrial revolution took a hundred years, the computer revolution took fifty years, the internet revolution took 20 years. Once they have AI that can replace 20+% of the jobs* it will take one year.


*We now have AI that can replace 20% of the jobs.

 

[ZNP]

Artificial intelligence is like the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You can create a list of all the good things that it can do and all the evil things it can do. But before man sinned God put that tree into the midst of the garden. After man sinned they were banished from the garden, not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it is still there. The tree was not cursed, Satan, the serpent was cursed.

No one is going to get rid of Artificial intelligence anymore than we will get rid of nuclear power or computers or telecommunications.

The problem with this tree is if you eat it you will die. If you eat the tree of life you will live forever.

The issue is who is in charge. Is Jesus, in your spirit Lord? Or is Satan in a darkened and fallen mind running things? A psychopath will put profit above all things, this is what will happen if AI is put in charge of achieving goals. The Lord will put teaching the next generation as a priority and as a result we will go from generation to generation.

So how do we apply this? If you "eat" from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you will die. We can't have this tree producing our stories. It can edit, but can't create. What we need to do is first eat from the tree of Life. We need Jesus and the word of God indwelling us.

 

[studier]

I'm not sure I understand all you are saying.

Firstly, AI is a tool. Like most if not all tools, in the hands of men it can be used for good or for bad. It will be used for both.

The issue with this tool, is that it may well end up having the ability to to self-determine what it concludes to be good or bad and it may at some point take upon itself the power to do much of what it concludes to do. With mankind developing it, what could possibly go wrong... Some knowledgeable in the industry acknowledge there will be no on/off switch.

As it is developed and develops, it is going to have the capacity to deceive to greater degrees. Fake news now is nothing compared to where this is headed. Early versions or comparable tech is already for example replicating itself to look like there is a network of people who may think a certain way so it can seem something is normal or has mass, when in reality it's just a man behind the curtain pulling levers and puffing fire and smoke.

One of the issues for Christians is that the spiritually young, no matter the chronological age, are already getting their teaching from the internet. AI will already assemble some type of interpretation of Scripture for someone to read and consider to be true and accurate. This is going to exacerbate what is already a problem. False teaching is available globally at all times. But so is truth as best we have it.

We'll see how the battle goes. In the mean time, things are going to change just as they do in every "revolution".

Enter into Christ. Remain in Christ - the only absolute Ruler of Heaven and earth. All goes where God allows it to go and for however long He allows it. As Paul said, For me to live, Christ! For me to die, Profit! As a pastor I heard once said, per Scripture, God provides food, clothing and shelter. If we find ourselves hungry, naked, or without shelter, it's a test of our faith. If/ when He wants us home, we go home. When He concludes His Plan, He concludes His Plan. I've only seen one verse I can recall that may say how we can expedite things. As usual, it runs contrary to much conventional "wisdom" and end times thinking. It's not about days or times. It's simply about us and it's likely fractal.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Firstly, AI is a tool.

It is far beyond a tool and that's what makes it so dangerous. AI is already playing god. Why are so many Christians getting involved with ChatGPT? Looks like many Christians can't avoid following the worldly crowds.

 

[ZNP]

It is far beyond a tool and that's what makes it so dangerous. AI is already playing god. Why are so many Christians getting involved with ChatGPT? Looks like many Christians can't avoid following the worldly crowds.

I suppose we should avoid computers, the internet, and electricity as well?

God warned us not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He said the day you do that you will die and sure enough Adam and Eve died before reaching 1,000 years old. However, God never said the tree was cursed. The serpent was cursed, Adam was cursed and Eve was cursed. They were all banished from the garden. But the tree wasn't cursed and it wasn't banished from the garden.

As a tool computers, the internet and AI are useful. It is not for food, that would be deadly. But as a tool it is created by God, placed in the garden by God and like all things created by God it is something that we are to give thanks for.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I suppose we should avoid computers, the internet, and electricity as well?

Huge difference. There is no need to ask a machine to help you personally. Getting information from the internet is impersonal.

 

[ZNP]

Huge difference. There is no need to ask a machine to help you personally. Getting information from the internet is impersonal.

So no need to avoid computers, the internet, and electricity. As long as they are "impersonal".

Does that mean we can use AI to run systems like our electric grid as long as it is impersonal? But then when Amazon.com uses it to give you personalized recommendations that is where we draw the line? Also how intelligent does it have to be for you to prohibit the use? A self checkout machine? Is that OK? How about AI that can assist you in doing taxes? What about AI that diagnosis the problem with your car? Also can a Christian hire a lawyer if that lawyer uses AI to assist them?

 

[ZNP]

Huge difference. There is no need to ask a machine to help you personally. Getting information from the internet is impersonal.

Also it seems like killer robots and drones are personal, So what do we do when Israel, Iran, Russia and China are all using AI controlled killer robots and drones? I understand that Israel recently sent AI controlled drones to destroy key strategic sites of Iran.

 

[studier]

It is far beyond a tool and that's what makes it so dangerous. AI is already playing god.

No, it's a tool. And AI can't play God. Additionally, it cannot reason or plan as a human mind can and it's uncertain at this time if it will be able to or if it ultimately can, then when? As @ZNP has referenced, the costs and hardware and software and the amount of power consumed to run even the development is staggering. There are simply so many things a human mind and body do even in the initial phases of development and learning that are not understood.

 

[studier]

Huge difference. There is no need to ask a machine to help you personally. Getting information from the internet is impersonal.

Actually many today constantly ask computers and phones to help us, or we use them to do so. That's what tools are for.

One of the things that was used as an example by one of the men in the field in an interview I listened to was something to the effect that these systems can currently go through data in some brief time (whatever the time was) that would take a man 20,000 years at 8 hours per day.

I don't know about you, but I uses search engines and emails quite a bit and I'm not concerned about asking AI for more and bigger research and analysis.

Also, one of the examples of a guy working on the use of AI for human health purposes asks the question in essence; if you had AI that could analyze the functions and conditions of your body - all of its organs and known processes - would you follow what it told you to do dietarily, exercise-wise, sleep-wise for optimum physical health? My response; sign me up.