about the baker who lost business when sued by "gays"

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Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
4,045
794
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#61
I've thought a lot about this problem. It would be extremely difficult for me to bake the cake, but if I were forced to bake it (I can't think of any reason short of threatening bodily injury to my love ones), I would conveniently drop it when I delivered it, apologize profusely, refund their money, and offer them any other cake in the shop for free.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
1,138
465
83
#62
No, sorry, you're wrong. Christians are not "blowing it" by standing against sin, not ever. You can be loving all you want to be, but you cannot agree with sin. He offered to make another type of cake and they refused. He is not in the wrong. You can't go along with the world. Christians accepted homosexuality, now we have transgenders. The world is pushing the church to condone sin, we cannot allow this.
I agree with everything you said. Why are you after me, now? I thought we were cool?
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
1,138
465
83
#63
I gave you a wise comment, hopefully you'll come back and read it. People will not stop pushing. As I said, a transgender person tried to sue him also. But for the baker to go against his conscience is sin. Do you know what else the baker won't sell? Halloween cakes. What say you now?
Huh? You've completely misunderstood my position, and that's rather unfortunate, as I am right here. You could have clarified things before assaulting my account with your plethora of "thumbs down" emojis.

I don't get it.
 

JesusWhereRU

Active member
Apr 16, 2021
677
193
43
#65
but it's not your shop and no need to be graphically rude

I guess you do not understand the agenda homosexuals have against Christians or even non-Christians who understand what marriage actually is

I would also assume you have no understanding of the word 'precedent'

Precedent refers to a court decision that is considered as authority for deciding subsequent cases involving identical or similar facts, or similar legal issues. Precedent is incorporated into the doctrine of stare decisis and requires courts to apply the law in the same manner to cases with the same facts.

It is not Christ's love to condone or uphold homosexual activity and that includes the false notion that wives or husbands cannot exist in that abnormal coupling
i agree except w/ the last sentence

which I do not understand

explain?
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
1,762
1,047
113
#66
i agree except w/ the last sentence

which I do not understand

explain?
yeah I did not write that last sentence too good

it should have read It is not Christ's love to condone or uphold homosexual activity and that includes the false notion that a woman can have a wife or a man have a husband .

the way I wrote it in the other post makes no sense ;)
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
16,853
4,430
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#67
Huh? You've completely misunderstood my position, and that's rather unfortunate, as I am right here. You could have clarified things before assaulting my account with your plethora of "thumbs down" emojis.

I don't get it.
Let's go back a step. There are other cakes the baker won't do. So he's not targeting the gay couple or singling them out. He won't do Halloween cakes. If I was a baker I would have a book of what I do and I do nothing that isn't already in that book. We can't agree with same sex marriage, he felt it was against his conscience to make the cake. But it's not the only thing he feels he can't make. And that is his right as owner of the store.

And we are indeed cool. Just a differing opinion.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
1,138
465
83
#68
Let's go back a step. There are other cakes the baker won't do. So he's not targeting the gay couple or singling them out. He won't do Halloween cakes. If I was a baker I would have a book of what I do and I do nothing that isn't already in that book. We can't agree with same sex marriage, he felt it was against his conscience to make the cake. But it's not the only thing he feels he can't make. And that is his right as owner of the store.

And we are indeed cool. Just a differing opinion.
If you could speak to me, I think you would realize that we have the same basic opinion.
 

JesusWhereRU

Active member
Apr 16, 2021
677
193
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#69
Thank you for asking. My first thought is this: If a gay person can enter a True Church so as to learn about Christ, and give their life to Him . . . then a gay person should be allowed to enter a stupid cake store. This just boggles my mind . . . that we expect the Lord to have Grace, Compassion, and Mercy upon us, but we can't do the same thing for others after we've already received His Grace. This is a massive, massive problem.

Next . . . it seems wise to talk about the Holy Remnant, which is the Body of True Believers . . . and believe me, the number of people who belong to the Family of Circumcision is pathetically small. Yes, this means that I am saying that virtually no one around you is a saved Christian, based upon what I am about to present to you below.

Romans 2:28-29 KJV - 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God."

According to Paul above, a True Christian is a person whose Heart has been Spiritually Circumcised by Christ. And if we think that this is just a crazy idea, it isn't. Paul later wrote the following about Spiritual Circumcision:

Colossians 2:11-14 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross."

The above verses should shock you, for they are descriptive of how Romans 2:28-29 is actually performed and completed. To be Spiritually Circumcised is what it takes to belong to the Holy Remnant of Christ. If you don't understand this idea of the Remnant, then it is time to Read the Old Testament for the first True time and get this sorted quickly. You need to read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological format so that you can understand the actual, Biblical story. Imagine reading your favorite book, but never reading it in the order of events? Would you say that you understood the book just as well, even though you never read it in a chronological format (chapter 1, 2, then 3, 4, then 5 and six . . . and so on)? Hardly . . . in fact, it would be very difficult to understand that book, and the amount of work it would take to organize it properly would be incredible . . . and that work has been done. Ask me and I will send you a link to a Bible Study that will walk you through the entire Bible in one year, reading in said fashion. This is a must.

So . . . the Remnant. This concept deals solely with the fact that there are very, very few True Believers walking the planet today. The word Remnant means that there are very few remaining and that the few are far out dwarfed by those who are not a part of said Remnant. It is reported that there are 3+ BILLION Christians in the world today. Based upon what we've discussed regarding the Remnant, how could that number of 3+ billion ever be True? Does half, or 1/3 of the population sound like a Remnant? No. Impossible.

Why did I go through all of that . . . just to talk about the gay life and cake stores? If I only sold air conditioning equipment to True Christians, and they are the ones who have Turned to Christ for the removal of their Sinful Nature, how am I going to make any money? I am making the bold claim that "christians" of today don't have a clue as to their professed Faith . . . and it's Working Mechanisms. It doesn't matter what sin we commit . . . if we have stolen, we are no better off than the man who places his circumcised phallus (a circumcision that represents the Most Holy Covenant of Spiritual Circumcision), it into an evil, feces en-coated place. I personally have slept with far, far too many women in my pre-Transformed life, so I am qualified to ask, "What is the difference between my being intimate with several women in a single week . . . which represents a massive sex addiction, or if a gay man has sex with just one man throughout his entire life?" There is no difference.

So . . . does the cake-maker ask each married couple if they've been shagging each other like wild turkey, or have they been obedient? Does the cake-maker ask, "Well . . . tell me now! Have you Turned to Jesus Christ to have your Sinful Nature taken away? Because lookie here Mr. Doodie . . . if you haven't been Purified by my Lord and Savior . . . well, you ain't a comin' in here!"

s."
There are a few problems with your little speech here

The baker did NOT bar the gay guys from entering the bakery
The baker did NOT tell them he couldn't do a cake for them because they were not part of "the Remnant"
If I recall correctly, he simply did not want to put a gay couple on the cake

I think maybe they could have added that touch if they w anted to?? I dunno... just a thought)


You say being a Christian is about grace. It is about grace but grace comes from living a pure life (uh... attempting to, etc). Obviously, homosexuals getting married is not something that imparts grace... just the OPPOSITE

And it is NOT " judgmental " to stand up for Christian mores. It is NOT un-Christian to say in effect: I am not going to participate in your sickness. In fact, to greet them with smiles and say Sure, I'll do whatever u want

is denying Jesus Christ
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
1,138
465
83
#70
There is a little problem with your little speech here
That's right . . . and its the way you interpret my words. Incredibly, unlike Biblical authors, I'm right here to clarify things before making false conclusions. Suit yourself . . . it's the Lord you have to answer to, not me.
 

JesusWhereRU

Active member
Apr 16, 2021
677
193
43
#71
That's right . . . and its the way you interpret my words. Incredibly, unlike Biblical authors, I'm right here to clarify things before making false conclusions. Suit yourself . . . it's the Lord you have to answer to, not me.
no idea what u are talking about---
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
16,853
4,430
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#74
If you could speak to me, I think you would realize that we have the same basic opinion.

Ok I'll be real clear here on what I think. Let's say instead of the Christian baker it's Jesus Himself, do you think He would bake a cake for a gay wedding? I'll let you answer that and then give my answer.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
1,138
465
83
#76
Ok I'll be real clear here on what I think. Let's say instead of the Christian baker it's Jesus Himself, do you think He would bake a cake for a gay wedding? I'll let you answer that and then give my answer.
If Jesus would go to the cross and die for sinners, I don't see why Jesus wouldn't bake a simple cake so as to establish a Trusting relationship (not an Eternal form of Trust, but a basic level of human trust.)

Jesus hung out with tax collectors, saying that He came to heal those who were sick, and not those who claimed to be "healed."

Paul said that to the weak I become weak, so that I might save some.

1 Corinthians 9:22 NIV - "To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some."

When Paul said that he became weak, he means to say that he is just trying to relate . . . so that "I might save some."

In the end, this is a non-essential discussion and I have no interest in being pinned against the wall with aggression over it. Seems silly to me.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
16,853
4,430
113
#77
If Jesus would go to the cross and die for sinners, I don't see why Jesus wouldn't bake a simple cake so as to establish a Trusting relationship (not an Eternal form of Trust, but a basic level of human trust.)

Jesus hung out with tax collectors, saying that He came to heal those who were sick, and not those who claimed to be "healed."

Paul said that to the weak I become weak, so that I might save some.

1 Corinthians 9:22 NIV - "To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some."

When Paul said that he became weak, he means to say that he is just trying to relate . . . so that "I might save some."

In the end, this is a non-essential discussion and I have no interest in being pinned against the wall with aggression over it. Seems silly to me.

Well, you're entitled to you opinion. Things can get rowdy in all these discussion forums you may want to learn not to take it personally.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
1,138
465
83
#78
Well, you're entitled to you opinion. Things can get rowdy in all these discussion forums you may want to learn not to take it personally.
So . . . I don't take things personally. I just don't have any time to argue with anyone about anything. I have far too much going on in my life to get upset about what someone thinks of me. I've got cancer . . . no one here can upset me.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
16,853
4,430
113
#79
So . . . I don't take things personally. I just don't have any time to argue with anyone about anything. I have far too much going on in my life to get upset about what someone thinks of me. I've got cancer . . . no one here can upset me.
It seemed you were getting upset, that's why I gave the warning. I'm sorry you have cancer. I have a lot of cancer in my family. But we still believe in the power of prayer. Good not to argue, because some people here love it and will always want the last word.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
1,138
465
83
#80
It seemed you were getting upset, that's why I gave the warning. I'm sorry you have cancer. I have a lot of cancer in my family. But we still believe in the power of prayer. Good not to argue, because some people here love it and will always want the last word.
Thank you much!

I don't need the final word with anyone because God has made it quite clear that He does not require me in the least . . . for anything. I am nothing in the grand scheme of things. After all, I have been wrong about God and His precepts in the past. The LAST thing that I am is a "know-it-all."