Are American Democrats turning to Socialism?

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Dem

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Mar 7, 2018
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the first paragraph was not mine, it was part one that I replied to. you are right about the lobyists but the bigger debate between americans is about government controls extreemists on one side want the government to control things that are out of control now wile the other side so called Libertarians wan to remove controls in favor of a la-za-faire, free market system that helps no one except the rich because they think taxation is stealing, meanwhile people suffer.

I don't expect athiests or agnostics to care. Without a doubt I'd exect Christians to. Thanks for the info on Medi Share ,,
You're welcome. I hope it helps you and yours. :)
I think proponents in government of Socialism, like Bernie Sanders who is an open Democrat Socialist and yet has so little respect for the American people, romanticize the idea of America turning Socialist.
It's a marketing ploy. The older wiser American voters know Socialism for what it is. While the fresh 18 age voter and the demographic that reaches to mid 20's relishes the idea of having everyone who works pay every one of their bills.
That's how they see it. But ask them what Socialism is and most are as clueless as Bernie Sanders.

laissez-faire economics
One of the guiding principles of capitalism, this doctrine claims that an economic system should be free from government intervention or moderation, and be driven only by the market forces. Centered on the belief (termed invisible hand by the 18th century Scottish economist Adam Smith) that human beings are naturally motivated by self-interest and, when they are not interfered-with in their economic activities, a balanced system of production and exchange based on mutual benefit emerges. Laissez-faire (French for, allow to pass or let go) economics originated in the 18th century France where economists (then called 'physiocrats') such as Francois Quesnay (1694-1774) and Victor Riqueti-Marquis de Mirabeau (1715-89) became hostile to subsidies and discriminatory economic measures of then prevalent mercantilism.

They believed in a bountiful nature and innate goodness of humankind, and asserted that governments should leave the individual alone except when social liberties are infringed. In 19th century, this philosophy became the dominant economic thinking in the Western world. But soon its failings reflected in the great disparity in distribution of wealth, harsh treatment of workers, disregard for consumer safety, and spread of monopolies, became clear. By the mid 19th century, opposition to laissez-faire economics began and governments in all industrialized countries intervened on behalf of workers and general population. Factory laws and consumer protection laws were enacted and growth of monopolies was checked. Early 20th century saw breakup of monopolies in the US and (after Second World War) nationalization of essential industries and services in Europe. Keynesian economics (which advocates government intervention in the national economy) further undermined it, a process spurred by the great depression of 1930s.

From 1970's, however, the pendulum swung back to laissez-faire economics (renamed 'market economy' or 'free enterprise') and brought deregulation of business, and progressive removal of trade barriers, which is continuing.

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/laissez-faire-economics.html[/QUOTE]
The government is controlled by corporate. No longer do the people have a say. corporate gets us to fight among ourselves and blame the government for everything its them that is stealing our money and taxes. There is no longer a government it is all corporations money controlling a bunch of greedy congressmen democrats and republicans alike.
 

Dem

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Mar 7, 2018
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And capitalism is a failed system just like any system that encourages greed and selfishness. 9% tax cut for them that do not need it a 2% tax cut for us which will be taken away from us in a couple of years please stop eating the poison candy. Not to mention the debt that the tax scam is going to create. JOBS WOOHOOO 11.00 an hour no benefits and it is temp. OH if you read you will find that the economy was going to gain strength with or without clinton or trump
 

Dem

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Mar 7, 2018
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As long as rich people lead this country the majority of the population that are mid-line to poor are going to suffer. But were it not for us there would be no them. They just don't realize that.

For Christians there have arrived medical insurance options that are structured with respect to our beliefs. Medi-Share is one.
This is a Yahoo search list of a bunch of others.
the first paragraph was not mine, it was part one that I replied to. you are right about the lobyists but the bigger debate between americans is about government controls extreemists on one side want the government to control things that are out of control now wile the other side so called Libertarians wan to remove controls in favor of a la-za-faire, free market system that helps no one except the rich because they think taxation is stealing, meanwhile people suffer.

I don't expect athiests or agnostics to care. Without a doubt I'd exect Christians to. Thanks for the info on Medi Share ,,[/QUOTE]
actually medi share does not help people with pre existing. I try they will not help me. not a good thing.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
Thanks again, I always knew 'Free Market Economy' meant financial tyrany and as far as trusting the good will of most men, especialy rich ones. Well I know enough history to know that's doublspeak for 'bend over and grab your ankles.' Bernie has some sweet sounding ideas but I don't believe in Santa Claus, every thing costs something, even our Salvation cost jesus his life. I checked some archival footage and he's Bernies been spouting the same rhetoric over 20 years. Still he's WAY smarter than Trump.

I'm still stumped, perhaps there is no answer on how to best help our brothers and sisters in need. I still want to.

laissez-faire economics
One of the guiding principles of capitalism, this doctrine claims that an economic system should be free from government intervention or moderation, and be driven only by the market forces. Centered on the belief (termed invisible hand by the 18th century Scottish economist Adam Smith) that human beings are naturally motivated by self-interest and, when they are not interfered-with in their economic activities, a balanced system of production and exchange based on mutual benefit emerges. Laissez-faire (French for, allow to pass or let go) economics originated in the 18th century France where economists (then called 'physiocrats') such as Francois Quesnay (1694-1774) and Victor Riqueti-Marquis de Mirabeau (1715-89) became hostile to subsidies and discriminatory economic measures of then prevalent mercantilism.
 

Dem

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Mar 7, 2018
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Killing of the infirm elderly is already happening in America. I know two people who suffered the loss of an elderly family member. One succumbed to a stroke due to purposeful evidences of malpractice. The suit is still pending. And another lost her sister after the Doctor informed the older one that it would be better to let her go and find peace. This in a hospital not a Hospice. When the sister was rightly outraged at the suggestion she allow the hospital to put her down like an animal, the sister later "died of natural causes." As in hours after.
And in John Hopkins hospital, rated top hospital in the country but not for patient care! But rather due to their medical research, they don't stop at putting down infirm elderly. A woman I know lost a niece because her blood type matched a very rich patient who's child needed organs harvested to live.

The killing fields in our American hospitals have been active for a very long time. Socialized medicine, Obamacare, is just the newest vehicle upon which the ghouls ride.
the elderly have been getting abused for a long time in this country. but not in the ones with socialized health care everybody gets taken care of and it is a fact.
 

Dem

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Mar 7, 2018
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The killing fields in our American hospitals have been active for a very long time. Socialized medicine, Obamacare, is just the newest vehicle upon which the ghouls ride.
I know many/most of the things you have said are true. My daughter worked for Obama care 4 years, 2 as a crew leader and she couldn't figure it out either. What is your solution to providing health care to those who cannot afford it? I joined the military for VA Benifits but for those who didn't what should we do?[/QUOTE]

My relatives in germany are taken care of with socialized medicine it is a lie from the right. If I did not qualify for obamacare I would be paying 1,400.00 a month for ins.(which means I would not have ins.) with obamacare I pay 575 a month it is a good thing needed some things worked out in it like any program of its size and they could not refuse me because of my age or my pre existing. Obama care was a step in the right direction we could go back to the ones you pay fore and get nothing in return when you need them. Fact
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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the elderly have been getting abused for a long time in this country. but not in the ones with socialized health care everybody gets taken care of and it is a fact.
Are you aware that Social Security is a form of Socialism?
Know any elderly receiving SS?
No one has said elderly aren't taken care of in our Obamacare system. The quality and type of care is the issue.

Thanks again, I always knew 'Free Market Economy' meant financial tyrany and as far as trusting the good will of most men, especialy rich ones. Well I know enough history to know that's doublspeak for 'bend over and grab your ankles.' Bernie has some sweet sounding ideas but I don't believe in Santa Claus, every thing costs something, even our Salvation cost jesus his life. I checked some archival footage and he's Bernies been spouting the same rhetoric over 20 years. Still he's WAY smarter than Trump.

I'm still stumped, perhaps there is no answer on how to best help our brothers and sisters in need. I still want to.

laissez-faire economics
One of the guiding principles of capitalism, this doctrine claims that an economic system should be free from government intervention or moderation, and be driven only by the market forces. Centered on the belief (termed invisible hand by the 18th century Scottish economist Adam Smith) that human beings are naturally motivated by self-interest and, when they are not interfered-with in their economic activities, a balanced system of production and exchange based on mutual benefit emerges. Laissez-faire (French for, allow to pass or let go) economics originated in the 18th century France where economists (then called 'physiocrats') such as Francois Quesnay (1694-1774) and Victor Riqueti-Marquis de Mirabeau (1715-89) became hostile to subsidies and discriminatory economic measures of then prevalent mercantilism.
Unfortunately, when we think of how to change things it always seems to be the broad picture of changing it by getting the government machine to go along with the change. I think we have to change as much as we can when we see change is needed where we are living at the time.

People are hungry. Donate to food banks. Volunteer there. Join food kitchens. Be a food kitchen! Make food for the homeless you know hang out in a particular area of your city or town and go feed them.
We can be the change. And as Christians aren't we compelled? I think that's a large part of what started the movement behind those Christian insurance groups I linked earlier.

I think we have to act personally and locally rather than think of the big picture. Which is, getting big government to change. If it had any intention of doing that we'd not be talking about how much big government needs to change.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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I know many/most of the things you have said are true. My daughter worked for Obama care 4 years, 2 as a crew leader and she couldn't figure it out either. What is your solution to providing health care to those who cannot afford it? I joined the military for VA Benifits but for those who didn't what should we do?
My relatives in germany are taken care of with socialized medicine it is a lie from the right. If I did not qualify for obamacare I would be paying 1,400.00 a month for ins.(which means I would not have ins.) with obamacare I pay 575 a month it is a good thing needed some things worked out in it like any program of its size and they could not refuse me because of my age or my pre existing. Obama care was a step in the right direction we could go back to the ones you pay fore and get nothing in return when you need them. Fact[/QUOTE]
And what you're describing is the Socialist model at work.

You're paying $75.00 a month while someone like me were I to consent and do so would pay $3200.00 a month so that you could pay $75.00 a month.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
Now that I'm old, disabled and poor, [by american standards] my days of pitching in and getting my hands dirty for free, are done. It's a struggle just getting to the bus stop in my Ok town, with marginal service at best. Between SS and VA I can get by. I was taught that S.S. insurance was my emergency and retirement fund. Not welfare. The people like me [millions of us] that were taught as much. We feel like we're about to get robbed when they talk about reducing or denying our benifits. It was not an option but we didn't complain. We knew that if we continued to work and live some day our turn would come. Thus we are outraged, either we were deceived, or ripped off.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
83
Now that I'm old, disabled and poor, [by american standards] my days of pitching in and getting my hands dirty for free, are done. It's a struggle just getting to the bus stop in my Ok town, with marginal service at best. Between SS and VA I can get by. I was taught that S.S. insurance was my emergency and retirement fund. Not welfare. The people like me [millions of us] that were taught as much. We feel like we're about to get robbed when they talk about reducing or denying our benifits. It was not an option but we didn't complain. We knew that if we continued to work and live some day our turn would come. Thus we are outraged, either we were deceived, or ripped off.
You were both deceived and ripped off.
Social Security came about as a referendum vote. 77 yeas and 6 nay and 12 in the Senate abstained. After a bit of back and forth because of differences in the SS bill versions between that of House and Senate, the bill went to a Conference Committee. The final bill language was passed by the House one day and the Senate the next. And on August 14, 1935 President Roosevelt signed it into law.

The people, not those powers making the vote on the bill, were told the new proposal, social security, even the words were meant to convey safety and promise and just after the great depression you notice, was like a future savings account. Monies , what we call FICA now, would be withdrawn from their wages each week or two weeks pay. And put into a fund that would accrue interest. When they retired they'd be paid from the gross in monthly payments.

Sounds like a plan. Who'd say no?
Now, imagine the real math. Someone starts working lets say when they're 18. They labor for 55 years and retire at 73 having paid in as FICA rates fluctuated in that withdrawl from gross income for five and a half decades. Plus interest?

But that's not how it works.
In fact, there are a lot of retired seniors that have to work to make ends meet. The insult there is two fold. First, FICA is still withdrawn from that paycheck. And secondly, if that senior works too many hours they lose money off their social security benefit.

Beware those who print, value, and control the dispersal of "money" , which is America is a fiat note, because when money is needed even to be homeless those with the money will enslave the masses hungry for it.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
Democrats have been called socialists so long and are so dissapointed by the democratic party that many would rather be called socialists or progressives than democrats. Teddy Roosevelt ran for his 3rd term as a progressive because he was dissapointed by republicans [who were called liberals in those days.]
 

Dem

Member
Mar 7, 2018
288
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Now that I'm old, disabled and poor, [by american standards] my days of pitching in and getting my hands dirty for free, are done. It's a struggle just getting to the bus stop in my Ok town, with marginal service at best. Between SS and VA I can get by. I was taught that S.S. insurance was my emergency and retirement fund. Not welfare. The people like me [millions of us] that were taught as much. We feel like we're about to get robbed when they talk about reducing or denying our benifits. It was not an option but we didn't complain. We knew that if we continued to work and live some day our turn would come. Thus we are outraged, either we were deceived, or ripped off.
yep they are saying that they need to cut SS because of the debt that the tax breaks are creating.
 

Dem

Member
Mar 7, 2018
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My relatives in germany are taken care of with socialized medicine it is a lie from the right. If I did not qualify for obamacare I would be paying 1,400.00 a month for ins.(which means I would not have ins.) with obamacare I pay 575 a month it is a good thing needed some things worked out in it like any program of its size and they could not refuse me because of my age or my pre existing. Obama care was a step in the right direction we could go back to the ones you pay fore and get nothing in return when you need them. Fact
And what you're describing is the Socialist model at work.

You're paying $75.00 a month while someone like me were I to consent and do so would pay $3200.00 a month so that you could pay $75.00 a month.[/QUOTE]
I am paying 575. a month for just me NOT 75. this is why we need socialize medicine. you would not even come close to paying 3200 a month on socialized medicine.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
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Anaheim, Cali.
yep they are saying that they need to cut SS because of the debt that the tax breaks are creating.
how much money did they give to the banks? After interest over the years how much does that add up to? Why dosn't the governmsnt have to follow its own truth in lending laws?
 

Dem

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Mar 7, 2018
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Democrats have been called socialists so long and are so dissapointed by the democratic party that many would rather be called socialists or progressives than democrats. Teddy Roosevelt ran for his 3rd term as a progressive because he was dissapointed by republicans [who were called liberals in those days.]
sick of labels
 

Dem

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Mar 7, 2018
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how much money did they give to the banks? After interest over the years how much does that add up to? Why dosn't the governmsnt have to follow its own truth in lending laws?
We will never know the truth but one thing for sure we gave them billions of dollars in tax breaks. Just think if they invested the billions in SS and Medicare HMMM. Not to mention the trillions they wasted in Iraq. On and on
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
I was about to turn onyou tube if somebody didn't have something interesting to say. 30 years ago I would have never have thought id have this kind of capability and find the news more interesting.:(
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
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And what you're describing is the Socialist model at work.

You're paying $75.00 a month while someone like me were I to consent and do so would pay $3200.00 a month so that you could pay $75.00 a month.
I am paying 575. a month for just me NOT 75. this is why we need socialize medicine. you would not even come close to paying 3200 a month on socialized medicine.[/QUOTE]
Apologies. Right there in your quoted message was the 575. and I omitted the 5. Forgive that please.
Obamacare is bad in itself but many countries have had Socialized medicine and for years so as to know it is a failure. Just as Socialism in government did in countries around the world that use to be Socialist .
Don't forget with Socialized medicine there is a little catch called rationed care.
This is a personal experience Opinion piece worth reading I think.
Obamacare: Socialized Medicine, Rationing And The Elderly


Pacific Research Institute Socialized medicine a global failure
JANUARY 04, 2016 SALLY C. PIPES THE BOSTON HERALD


Other articles - Why Socialized medicine fails
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
We will never know the truth but one thing for sure we gave them billions of dollars in tax breaks. Just think if they invested the billions in SS and Medicare HMMM. Not to mention the trillions they wasted in Iraq. On and on STROKE, STROKE
Just keep paddling 198198_1011966014352_6573_n.jpg