Discount Store Chain in England Pulls Controversial Ouija Boards

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EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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#21
I believe in freedom... If you're against the ouija board, as I am, then boycott it. No worries. If you want to play with one, you should have the right to buy or sell one.

I support the store choosing to not supply it anymore, but not because I'm personally against the ouija board, but because it's their right as a business to make that decision. It's just hard to say if the store decided to pass on them because of the pressure from other people or because they themselves have a moral objective to it.

I morally object to alcohol and tobacco, but I'm not going to call upon everyone who views our bodies as sacred temples to pressure every retailer who sells alcohol or tobacco... Let them sell it... focus on educating people about the consequences of those products, be it moral and/or physical consequences.
Agree, the idea of banning the Ouija's board will not stop it from being used and will inflame interest, should Christians work to ban Yoga too since that apparently puts people in contact with demons?

Education can be very effective and has been especially around the harm of smoking cigarettes among the youth.

To your comment regarding alcohol we can see from history that Prohibition did not work, it only created a black market.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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#22
I wouldn’t have anything to do with Harry Potter books or anything like that and refuse to even let it in my house; because the Bible says to shun evil. J K Rowling has actually said that she consulted real Wizards to obtain information for her books, so make no mistake, those books are evil and scripture tells us that the enemy is subtle.
God tells us to be holy as He is holy and that without holiness we shall not see God. Holiness is to be separate from evil things.
What a great marketing tool if she said that she consulted with wizards.
Harry Potter is entirely fiction.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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#23
The spiritual world does not depend on what we call it, the yoga positions are hindu prayer positions, prayers said to spirits that are not of God. There are only two kingdoms, His of light and the enemies of darkness, there is no middle, neutral ground we either serve the one true God or the enemies kingdom of darkness.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#24
Enid Blyton said she wrote her books from her imagination.
A lot of people somehow do that you know.
Gary Larson said he got his ideas for cartoons from 1001 funny ideas book.

apparently the author of The wonderful wIzard of Oz Frank L Baum, was a theosophist, yet somehow that remains a most popular book and childrens movie in USA, and Ive never heard it banned by Christians.

Apparently the one library that DID ban it gave its reason that Dorothy was a heroine and they didnt like strong female characters in leadership positions. Huh.

Of course I would shun that movie as being a wicked influence, since we all know what happened to Judy Garland as a result of being put on drugs for THAT film.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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#25
What some may not know is that in first amendment America there remains a banned books list, as pertains to our public libraries. In fact a celebration of the freedom to read is celebrated every year and is known as Banned Books Week. It runs September 27th to October 3rd.
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
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#26
We are the salt of the earth... if we lessen the evil on this earth surely that is a good thing...
Then would you be in favor of outlawing any and all types of pre-marital relations? What about when even Christians differ on what "evil" pertains to like alcohol? Some thing it's okay to drink as long as we don't get drunk, others think it's a sin even to drink one drop. Would you be in 100% support of a Christian theocracy because "if we lessen the evil on this earth surely that is a good thing"?

I believe God has given us both a blessing and a curse with the gift of free will. Provided I don't abuse my free will and take away from anyone elses free will, I ought to exercise my God-given right in the manner I see fit... even if it's to exercise wickedness. Ultimately, I will have to answer to the Father for my abuse of free will. Similarly, if I choose to exercise my free only in righteousness, then the Father has promised to bless us.

Just want to point out as well, making something illegal doesn't STOP that evil from occurring. Murder is illegal, unfortunately, murders still happen. A person unable to buy a ouija board can get a pen and paper and make one in a matter of minutes. The real solution is to educate people on the consequences of their actions.
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
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#27
Smoke, sorry but this principle is flawed...Do you think paedophiles should have the freedom to abuse children??
This all comes down to right and wrong, and whether we as Christians stand for what is right.
Educating people won’t necessarily stop sin, either, unless they are educated with the gospel and get born again and filled with His Spirit... apart from Him we can do nothing but through Him all things are possible. Satan has blinded them and Jesus is the Light if the world.
Pedophiles take liberty aware from children in the most heinous way possible. Of course I don't believe they should have that right. I don't believe in anarchy, but I do believe in free will/liberty provided it doesn't take away from anyone else. That's far from anarchy.

So you're in support of a Christian theocracy, correct?
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
10,346
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#28
Then would you be in favor of outlawing any and all types of pre-marital relations? What about when even Christians differ on what "evil" pertains to like alcohol? Some thing it's okay to drink as long as we don't get drunk, others think it's a sin even to drink one drop. Would you be in 100% support of a Christian theocracy because "if we lessen the evil on this earth surely that is a good thing"?

I believe God has given us both a blessing and a curse with the gift of free will. Provided I don't abuse my free will and take away from anyone elses free will, I ought to exercise my God-given right in the manner I see fit... even if it's to exercise wickedness. Ultimately, I will have to answer to the Father for my abuse of free will. Similarly, if I choose to exercise my free only in righteousness, then the Father has promised to bless us.

Just want to point out as well, making something illegal doesn't STOP that evil from occurring. Murder is illegal, unfortunately, murders still happen. A person unable to buy a ouija board can get a pen and paper and make one in a matter of minutes. The real solution is to educate people on the consequences of their actions.
I with most of what you have written, however, certainly laws do act as a deterrent depending upon various factors.
Agree that a secular society does make decisions on how intrusive those laws will be upon individual liberty.
Education is the basis of a civil society and to denounce the value of education is indicative of the movement within Christianity to suppress "thinking" essentially.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#29
I work in a bookshop (i dont own it) and notice we had a board game called 'stupid deaths'. we also have a game called 'cards against humanity' and 'exploding kittens' as well as 'monopoly'. I really dont like Monopoly! its evil

I would rather play Scrabble. You pick the letters out of a bag in that one, its not mindless like ouija is.

other games we have

bingo
poker
uno

and...tarot cards.

I obeserve that people dont really buy many board games. If people are into games, they would more likely to buy a video game, which the bookshop doesnt sell.

Video games can be exceptionally violent and occultic.
 

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2019
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#30
Then would you be in favor of outlawing any and all types of pre-marital relations? What about when even Christians differ on what "evil" pertains to like alcohol? Some thing it's okay to drink as long as we don't get drunk, others think it's a sin even to drink one drop. Would you be in 100% support of a Christian theocracy because "if we lessen the evil on this earth surely that is a good thing"?

I believe God has given us both a blessing and a curse with the gift of free will. Provided I don't abuse my free will and take away from anyone elses free will, I ought to exercise my God-given right in the manner I see fit... even if it's to exercise wickedness. Ultimately, I will have to answer to the Father for my abuse of free will. Similarly, if I choose to exercise my free only in righteousness, then the Father has promised to bless us.

Just want to point out as well, making something illegal doesn't STOP that evil from occurring. Murder is illegal, unfortunately, murders still happen. A person unable to buy a ouija board can get a pen and paper and make one in a matter of minutes. The real solution is to educate people on the consequences of their actions.
We are discussing Law, so yes, I would be in favour of outlawing wickedness in a Biblical manner. This does not stop free will but it is a deterrent and there would be less wickedness as a result, I think.

The real solution is to be born again of Christ and to be filled with His Spirit.

Btw it is not Biblical to say drinking one drop of alcohol is sin; nowhere in the Bible does it say this; the first miracle Jesus did was t change water into wine. The Bible says to not be drunk.
 

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2019
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#31
Then would you be in favor of outlawing any and all types of pre-marital relations? What about when even Christians differ on what "evil" pertains to like alcohol? Some thing it's okay to drink as long as we don't get drunk, others think it's a sin even to drink one drop. Would you be in 100% support of a Christian theocracy because "if we lessen the evil on this earth surely that is a good thing"?

I believe God has given us both a blessing and a curse with the gift of free will. Provided I don't abuse my free will and take away from anyone elses free will, I ought to exercise my God-given right in the manner I see fit... even if it's to exercise wickedness. Ultimately, I will have to answer to the Father for my abuse of free will. Similarly, if I choose to exercise my free only in righteousness, then the Father has promised to bless us.

Just want to point out as well, making something illegal doesn't STOP that evil from occurring. Murder is illegal, unfortunately, murders still happen. A person unable to buy a ouija board can get a pen and paper and make one in a matter of minutes. The real solution is to educate people on the consequences of their actions.
Christian education is of course excellent for society, because “ Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.” I believe that the Bible should be the basis for all people to live by whether that be regarding Law or education. Education plays its part, because we are to train up children in the way they should go for example, however education alone is not the solution to sin in this world.
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
432
70
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#32
We are discussing Law, so yes, I would be in favour of outlawing wickedness in a Biblical manner. This does not stop free will but it is a deterrent and there would be less wickedness as a result, I think.

The real solution is to be born again of Christ and to be filled with His Spirit.

Btw it is not Biblical to say drinking one drop of alcohol is sin; nowhere in the Bible does it say this; the first miracle Jesus did was t change water into wine. The Bible says to not be drunk.
I would ONLY be in favor of outlawing wickedness when/if it takes away from someone elses individual liberty (child molesting, killing, stealing, etc...) but allow for other "biblical wickedness" that doesn't take away from anyone's individual liberty (getting drunk, playing with ouija boards, engaging in consensual pre-marital sex, etc...).

It's important to not confuse "allowing for" with "supporting of". God allows people to do a multitude of things that are wicked, but it doesn't mean He supports it. I also do not believe in forcing people to adhere to my Christian beliefs who may not even be Christians. Should we make laws making it mandatory to be baptized? How about making laws that we have to pray to give thanks to God before every meal? What about a 10% tithing charge on top of the already existing taxes? What do we do about shellfish? Some Christians think it's okay to eat shellfish others think it's an abomination. You view Harry Potter as evil and dark, should we ban those movies? Do we pass laws to shut everything down on Saturday (keeping the sabbath day holy)?

You would be very surprised how much you have in common with Islamic nations. They make their religious beliefs the law of the land. That isn't something I would ever want to be a part of, even if it was a Christian theocracy.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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#33
We haven't been under the Law for about 2,000 years, much of what is suggested would put us back under it.
Better to LEARN WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS AND PRACTICE IT.
Islame is a religion, much like catholocism, lutheranism, and of the "ism's" that require acts and rituals to make ourselves right with G-d when in reality Jesus paid it ALL and invites us to relationship with Him.
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
432
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28
#34
Christian education is of course excellent for society, because “ Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.” I believe that the Bible should be the basis for all people to live by whether that be regarding Law or education. Education plays its part, because we are to train up children in the way they should go for example, however education alone is not the solution to sin in this world.
I believe the bible ought to be the basis for how people should live their lives as well. The difference between us is that you'd make laws to force/submit people into salvation, where as I would prefer to leave the civil law out of it and instead utilize the gift of the Holy Spirit to teach and win over a person's heart. If someone needs a law to be obedient, my guess is it won't last... it's only temporary obedience. If you educate and use the power of the Holy Spirit to teach people WHY it's wise to not do something (or to do something) instead of just saying "the law is x, y, z...", then the likelihood of that person remaining obedient to God's word is astronomically higher.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#35
a chain store that doesnt sell ouija boards just means the ouija boards might be picked up by a different store or online, certainly they can make it more diffuclt for people to have access, rather than a ban.

Libraries operate in this manner for any questionable material. Its the reason why we have childrens section and adult sections as children dont have the maturity to handle or read adult material.

restrictions are done for alcohol and tobacco too they are not banned, but you have to be over 18 to buy them. Though I do see the problem of people selling say cannabis jelly babies, and this board game appealing to children, but then disney often shrouds its movies that often have violent themes too. actually most of the original fairy tales have darker themes and arent suitable for very young children but they often have the element of warning and caution and are not watered down and sanitised the way disney versions are.

if alcohol was put into soft drinks (alcopops) and sold to children it wouldnt be very wise, but then sugary drinks are directly marketed to children which can be just as damaging. This is why some govts and many schools ban them and make only water available as a drink.

I perosonally dont think its any bodys 'right' to get drunk or sleep around with someone else but if people want to be stupid and overindulge, making alcohol or say pornography or even P widely avialable actually does impact detrimentally on other people around them, that would not happen so much if it was hard to obtain...God placed a warning on the forbidden tree fruit, but He didnt cut it down.
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
432
70
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#36
We are discussing Law, so yes, I would be in favour of outlawing wickedness in a Biblical manner. This does not stop free will but it is a deterrent and there would be less wickedness as a result, I think.

The real solution is to be born again of Christ and to be filled with His Spirit.

Btw it is not Biblical to say drinking one drop of alcohol is sin; nowhere in the Bible does it say this; the first miracle Jesus did was t change water into wine. The Bible says to not be drunk.
That's the problem. There is a large percentage of Christians who say the water Jesus turned into wine was non-fermented (non-alcoholic). In other words, it was grape juice but they didn't call it grape juice. Nevertheless, there is a great case made that the wine Jesus created at the wedding feast was "new-wine" or grape juice that has not yet aged/fermented. "Oinas" which translates to "wine" can refer to fermented or non-fermented wine (juice). My point is, even Christians don't agree on what is right or wrong, yet you'd allow for legislation to reflect Christian commandment.
 

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2019
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#37
I would ONLY be in favor of outlawing wickedness when/if it takes away from someone elses individual liberty (child molesting, killing, stealing, etc...) but allow for other "biblical wickedness" that doesn't take away from anyone's individual liberty (getting drunk, playing with ouija boards, engaging in consensual pre-marital sex, etc...).

It's important to not confuse "allowing for" with "supporting of". God allows people to do a multitude of things that are wicked, but it doesn't mean He supports it. I also do not believe in forcing people to adhere to my Christian beliefs who may not even be Christians. Should we make laws making it mandatory to be baptized? How about making laws that we have to pray to give thanks to God before every meal? What about a 10% tithing charge on top of the already existing taxes? What do we do about shellfish? Some Christians think it's okay to eat shellfish others think it's an abomination. You view Harry Potter as evil and dark, should we ban those movies? Do we pass laws to shut everything down on Saturday (keeping the sabbath day holy)?

You would be very surprised how much you have in common with Islamic nations. They make their religious beliefs the law of the land. That isn't something I would ever want to be a part of, even if it was a Christian theocracy.
If you knew anything about Islam and Sharia Law you would realise that what you have just said is entirely incorrect. The countries whose laws were based on the Bible are much better places to live than Islamic ones because God’s Law is good and Islamic Law is not.
It does not say anywhere in the Bible that we have to pray and give thanks before every meal. There are wise people who God equips to exercise righteous judgement and if the people establishing our Laws were Godly and truly knew Him then our countries would be far more blessed than they are now, and there would be far less wickedness; history proves this. Wise leaders would not base laws on legalism but on Biblical wisdom and principles.
You say you don’t believe in forcing people to adhere to Christian beliefs and yet you agree that there should be laws to protect children etc. Just because you draw the line where your conscience says doesn’t make you correct; we go to God and His Word to discern where to draw the line. Until 1951 Witchcraft was illegal in my country and yes I do think Harry Potter books should be outlawed. We are only bringing trouble to ourselves dabbling in such things and allowing them into our homes and lives. The Bible clearly tells us to shun evil. Laws are there to protect us and there should be reasonable consequences as a deterrent, which are established by righteous, Spirit filled, God appointed people; predominantly men, who are caring and protective and upright. How much better off we would be if we always sought to do things God’s way rather than our own.
 

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2019
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#38
We haven't been under the Law for about 2,000 years, much of what is suggested would put us back under it.
Better to LEARN WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS AND PRACTICE IT.
Islame is a religion, much like catholocism, lutheranism, and of the "ism's" that require acts and rituals to make ourselves right with G-d when in reality Jesus paid it ALL and invites us to relationship with Him.
But we are discussing what should and should not be legally allowed in our countries.
 

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2019
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#39
I believe the bible ought to be the basis for how people should live their lives as well. The difference between us is that you'd make laws to force/submit people into salvation, where as I would prefer to leave the civil law out of it and instead utilize the gift of the Holy Spirit to teach and win over a person's heart. If someone needs a law to be obedient, my guess is it won't last... it's only temporary obedience. If you educate and use the power of the Holy Spirit to teach people WHY it's wise to not do something (or to do something) instead of just saying "the law is x, y, z...", then the likelihood of that person remaining obedient to God's word is astronomically higher.
No I wouldn’t. You have missed my point entirely. This so not about salvation, this is about Laws of the Land and what is it is not acceptable and profitable. It is surely always best to base our laws on God’s Word and it is surely always a mistake to give licence to evil.
 

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2019
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#40
That's the problem. There is a large percentage of Christians who say the water Jesus turned into wine was non-fermented (non-alcoholic). In other words, it was grape juice but they didn't call it grape juice. Nevertheless, there is a great case made that the wine Jesus created at the wedding feast was "new-wine" or grape juice that has not yet aged/fermented. "Oinas" which translates to "wine" can refer to fermented or non-fermented wine (juice). My point is, even Christians don't agree on what is right or wrong, yet you'd allow for legislation to reflect Christian commandment.
This is incorrect; in context it was alcoholic wine, otherwise it would make no sense suggesting that it was normal practice to leave the cheaper wine until later when no-one would notice the inferior quality of the wine.