Fact Checking LBGTQ+

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
  • June 2022 Fundraiser!
    Guest if you appreciate Christian Chat can you please participate in our June 2022 Fundraiser (CLICK HERE) if you're able (all amounts appreciated!). We are totally member supported doing this by faith Your support is very helpful, very needed, and very much appreciated. Thank you!
    ~ Donate now ~
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,970
113
#21
just be careful you dont hate gays in the process. im not a fan of ssm either. but the challenge is to see the human being. being inclusive whilst expressing disagreement.
======================
yes, of course they are included into the realm of the meaning of 'the human-race', BUT, they are NOT 'included'
into the realm of being included into the Body of Believers of Jesus Christ, those who follow His Ways and Rules,.. -
and so, the many gifts of our Saviour are not extended to them at this time of their lives...
and so were we all once in this very same predicament, thus, we Love and await their precious calling that
was so Graciously extended to us, as we speak to others from our hearts...
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,304
3,501
113
#23
=============================================================
we're assuming you are meaning (past-sins)??? = forgiven upon 'conversion' and being given the 'gift of
The Holy Spirit to not only accept His gift of forgiveness for our PAST-SINS, but giving us the 'gift to 'over-come them'
and being given the Faith and Strength to not keep on repeating them, the knowledge and will and courage to NOT
keep on repeating the same ole same ole - (sign of a false conversion) - as we grow and learn to
'WALK in the 'Newness of His Holy-Light'???
1JOHN 1:7.
But if we walk in The Light, as He is in The Light, we have fellowship one with another,
and The Blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Past sins/ present sins, whatever, we should never be justifying sin. Part of sanctification involves turning from sin and turning to Christ. That part is ongoing.
 

morefaithrequired

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2019
2,194
1,266
113
#24
Past sins/ present sins, whatever, we should never be justifying sin. Part of sanctification involves turning from sin and turning to Christ. That part is ongoing.
I hate sin too. Lets have a hate sin party!
 

blueluna5

Active member
Jul 30, 2018
328
221
43
#25
I cannot say how many times I have heard a member of the LBGTQ+ community, who we love as fellow people made in the image of God, make the comment that they were "born gay" or just "born that way". Geneticists have found that this truth about being born gay does not exist. According to the National Institutes of Health and the New York times https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22720828/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/08/29/science/gay-gene-sex.amp.html

I like...
" The research also suggests the genetics of same-sex sexual behavior shares some correlation with genes involved in some mental health issues and personality traits — although the authors said that overlap could simply reflect the stress of enduring societal prejudice." Blah, blah, blah more political crap than science.

Even if I wasn't a Christian I wouldn't believe you're born gay. I've seen identical twins who are not both gay. I think we love to overanalyze in this generation. The. Same. DNA in identical twins shows it's not genetic.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,731
113
Texas
#26
We are all born subject to our sin nature. Science can dig around and try and figure out where sin comes from and how a human becomes debauched, but they will not ever figure it out. It is a spiritual matter, and beyond the sight of man.
The fact is we all struggle with our own brand of sin be it pride, or lust, or anger, etc... Being a homosexual is no different than any other perversion or addiction there to. The be all end all is that regardless of what age that we are overcome by our base desires, sin is sin, and each has his own battle. If a man refuses to take up his cross, he will excuse his sin in what every way that he can. So even if born with a bent toward homosexuality it is not an excuse, no more than it is an excuse for any of us to indulge our sin nature. If it were then drinking and whoring and fighting and killing, is just how we are and it is also just as excusable.
I find it ironic that the homosexual community will universally say that that thieving, and killing is wrong and evil although it is found through out the animal kingdom, yet point to the animals in nature to excuse their behavior. They will also condemn the alcoholic, and drug addict yet there is equal evidence of genetic predisposition.
My question on the matter is, why aren't Christians wise enough to see this and call it?
 

Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
5,926
3,663
113
#27
Many persons choose to believe that homosexuals are born that way because (like you) they can't conceive that someone would choose to be that way without contemplating that there may be more than two options. The third option is that homosexuals (like sociopaths) were made that way (environment).

If you look at the background (upbringing, family dynamic, etc) of sociopaths you will find that by far the majority of them come from homes where they were severely abused. If you look at the background of homosexuals you will likewise find common threads.
"I believe you are correct. Circumstances of family environment most always has an
impact on a child, whatever that may turn out to be is...life, here in the now.
Expect the unexpected."
( Just a thought )
 

morefaithrequired

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2019
2,194
1,266
113
#28
So how will you react if scientists discover the gay gene?
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
18,597
5,530
113
#29
So how will you react if scientists discover the gay gene?

Actually I expected them to "discover" it years ago. But they don't need to, people have already accepted it with open arms, pushed by Hollywood. Even Christians accept it.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,378
113
#32
the first time we agree on something...well almost
Praise God we are in agreement! Here is what Paul had to say about same-sex when writing to the Corinthians:

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Are here's what Jude had to say:

"In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire."

In our concern for them, we also have to be careful to not condone or support that life style. We should hate their practices which the Lord also hates as He made clear in His letter to the Ephesians:

"But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."

The practices of the Nicolaitans was the eating of food sacrificed to idols and committing sexual immorality.

We should recognize those living same-sex life styles and all unbelieving sinners, as those who have the opportunity for salvation, but hate what they are doing.

"And indeed, have mercy on those who doubt; save others by snatching them from the fire; and to still others, show mercy tempered with fear, hating even the clothing stained by the sinful nature."
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,535
2,704
113
#33
I cannot say how many times I have heard a member of the LBGTQ+ community, who we love as fellow people made in the image of God, make the comment that they were "born gay" or just "born that way". Geneticists have found that this truth about being born gay does not exist. According to the National Institutes of Health and the New York times https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22720828/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/08/29/science/gay-gene-sex.amp.html
The thing that bothers me the most, is the way the media and the LBGTxxxx mov't, make it seem like around 50% of the population is gay. In fact, recent studies show it is more like 1%. I do think there can be environmental issues that contribute to the "feeling" of being gay. Things like being flooded with hormones in the womb, and as someone mentioned already, abuse, esp. sexual. But a gene! The genome is mapped and no such gene has been found.

Further, we don't live by the whimsies of "feelings" but by the Word of God. Usually the people standing for gay rights say we don't have to obey a bunch of OT Levitical laws. And that is true! But the NT has very definitive statements about homosexuality being sin and wrong. I don't know how many people I have talked to about morals and values did not realize what a strong stance against homosexuality the NT makes.

We have a man in our church who seems flamboyantly gay. He was, but he repented of his sin, and married a lovely woman and they are very active in a prayer and visitation ministry, plus he plays piano (he is a classically trained pianist who tests music students, but also plays wonderful piano.) He is very led of the Holy Spirit. He has been married to his wife 29 years. He made a choice to repent and live for God. So, it is possible to make a choice to not only leave the gay lifestyle, but also to live happily as a heterosexual.

But people have been so brainwashed to believe this affects so many people, and also that if they are born gay, they cannot change. My aunt is a lovely woman, attends an Anglican Church, where she was taught gays are born that way and cannot change. I told her all about Joe, and she could not believe it. The brainwashing is thick, and my aunt is not stupid, with degrees in nursing and counselling. She reads the Bible daily, but I think she tends to pick and chose the things SHE likes, rather than believing the whole counsel of God.

However, I do think we need to look at LBGT people as sinners that need to hear the gospel, and learn the truth about SSM and that homosexuality is a sin against God. We need to be kind to these people, but uncompromising about the truth. I know God wants to save them and see them repent of their sins and become a member of the body of Christ. And it is certainly possible!
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,521
113
76
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#34
Below is an excerpt on this subject from my first book available on my website:

Homosexuality
Sexual perversion results from promiscuity and sexual dissatisfaction. Besides promiscuity, the most likely common perversion is homosexuality. Most modern homosexuals claim that their condition is not a perversion, because they were born with their sexuality intact. This is a teaching adamantly taught by such as Sigmund Freud (more on this in chapter 4 entitled “Psychological Deceptions”). On the contrary, our sexuality, normal or abnormal, is a learned trait. Common sense should dictate this to us, unless we are trying to justify an abnormal lifestyle. Ask yourself: If these people could not keep from this way of life, why then does God tell us not to tolerate homosexuality?

We have some biblical references to establish a negative tolerance for homosexuality: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: It is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: They shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13). "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel" (Deuteronomy 23:17).

The Bible gives us two examples of whole societies becoming homosexual, and thus perverted. The first example is given in the book of "Genesis," starting in chapter 18 at verse sixteen; and continuing through chapter 19 and verse twenty nine. This is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, and how they became evil. God finally decided to destroy these people; probably to keep their attitudes from spreading throughout the world too soon. Another example is in the book of "Judges" chapters 19 and 20. The ancient tribe of Benjamin had become either homosexual and/or promiscuous, or tolerant of these in their cities. God allowed ancient Israel to destroy them, except for a few to carry on their name and heritage.

Today, many people say the New Testament has no references to homosexuality. Let's look at that claim in more detail. In Romans 1:27 we find: “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.” Can that be anything but homosexuality? Another reference is in I Timothy 1:9,10: "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.” Now what did Paul mean when he spoke of those that defile themselves with mankind? Paul was also speaking of homosexuals when he referred to "abusers of themselves with mankind" (see I Corinthians 6:9 last phrase). There are also two references of the (type of) sin of Sodom and Gomorrah (see II Peter 2:6 and Jude 1:7).

It does not take much time and digging to determine how God views the sin of homosexuality. Many, in today's society, feel they can mix Christianity with homosexuality; but God's word is clearly to the contrary. Should we not instead do as Paul had admonished the ancient Thessalonians? "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (I Thessalonians 5:21).
---- End of Excerpt.

I would like to add this: If we offered any sexual deviant a protected minority classification, soon we would not be able to speak against it. Think about it.
 

vashweb2

Well-known member
May 30, 2018
85
274
53
#35
So how will you react if scientists discover the gay gene?
They just discovered there isn't a "gay gene". How can they undiscover what's already been discovered? I suggest reading the article will answer that question. The fact is homosexuality is a choice, which means you are not created to be homosexual genetically by God. If children weren't evidence enough for heterosexual relationships, which I think they are, this pushes it further.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
978
113
32
#36
We want to talk about genes 🧬 and how the body determines sexual preference, right? One word: Ovulation. Why does a woman go through the menstrual cycle, of ovulation and then her period? To be impregnated by... a male and only a male.

So a person professing lesbianism, for example, has her own body informing her as often as she goes through this cycle that she, physically, has been created to (using a biblical term) multiply with her husband, a male.

For the men, on the other hand not having this cycle, they have sperm. This is used to what? Multiply. To impregnate, walking righteously, your wife. Homosexual men then too have a reminder physically that they were created biologically for women.

We can debate the reasoning behind homosexuality, mental or genetic, a product of environment or a genetic mutation, but regardless of all of this our very own bodies of male and female declare unequivocally that we were created male and female, equipped to mate with the opposite sex.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,378
113
#37
So how will you react if scientists discover the gay gene?
I'd say, "Is there a lying gene, a murder gene, a slander gene, an adultery and rape gene, a coveting gene, etc., etc.

As I said in a previous post, having same-sex relations is a choice. Those who practice same-sex can also chose not to practice it. But because there is no fear of God and they want to continue to fulfill those desires, they make up all kinds of excuses and attempt to make it as normal as being a heterosexual. Neither two men, nor two woman can bring forth children. That should be a red flag right there. For in the beginning God made them male and female. And for this reason a man is to leave his father and mother and be joined to His wife and the two shall become one. I would point out all of the references to masculine, feminine in that scripture, male, female, man, wife, father, mother, etc.

I believe that the reason as to why we have had this same-sex explosion, is for one is that we are in the last days. I believe that it is the fulfillment of what Paul was speaking about in Romans.

=======================================================================
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity for the dishonoring of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise! Amen.

26For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.


28Furthermore, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant, and boastful. They invent new forms of evil; they disobey their parents. 31They are senseless, faithless, heartless, merciless.

32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things are worthy of death, they not only continue to do these things, but also approve of those who practice them.
==========================================================================

To put verse 24 into perspective for today, to worship and serve the creature rather than the Creator," would be referring to the belief in evolution opposed to God as the creator of all things. Evolution is taught and promoted on the majority of every television programs. Because of this and all of the reasons listed above, God allowed them to follow the desires of their own corrupt minds, which leads to death.
 

Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
5,926
3,663
113
#38
We want to talk about genes 🧬 and how the body determines sexual preference, right? One word: Ovulation. Why does a woman go through the menstrual cycle, of ovulation and then her period? To be impregnated by... a male and only a male.

So a person professing lesbianism, for example, has her own body informing her as often as she goes through this cycle that she, physically, has been created to (using a biblical term) multiply with her husband, a male.

For the men, on the other hand not having this cycle, they have sperm. This is used to what? Multiply. To impregnate, walking righteously, your wife. Homosexual men then too have a reminder physically that they were created biologically for women.

We can debate the reasoning behind homosexuality, mental or genetic, a product of environment or a genetic mutation, but regardless of all of this our very own bodies of male and female declare unequivocally that we were created male and female, equipped to mate with the opposite sex.
"Thank you, well explained."
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
978
113
32
#39
I personally wouldn't give a ding dang. Sin is sin. Everyone, regardless of how they were (supposedly) born, must be born again.
I like the word play, and truth behind it. Even if someone was born predisposed to a particular sin, it is still a sin and the fault (as they would be seeking an excuse) lays with the fall of mankind. Just cause you were born that way doesn’t mean you have to stay that way.
 
Sep 29, 2019
394
170
43
#40
I cannot say how many times I have heard a member of the LBGTQ+ community, who we love as fellow people made in the image of God, make the comment that they were "born gay" or just "born that way". Geneticists have found that this truth about being born gay does not exist. According to the National Institutes of Health and the New York times https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22720828/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/08/29/science/gay-gene-sex.amp.html
Hi Vashweb2
As the report indicates it is a very complex picture. Scientists and psychologists still have no conclusive answer.
From my own experience, being gay is not a choice. Certainly not one I ever remember making. It has always been there. It is just something one becomes aware of as one grows up. So I think this is what gay people mean when they say they were born that way. Sexuality is just not a choice in the way that going out to buy a new pair of shoes is.