Family of gun instructor killed by girl of 9 using Uzi to sue over his death

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Desdichado

Desdichado

Senior Member
#21
Feb 9, 2014
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#21
wwjd_kilden said:
Considering you are not allowed to vote until you are 18 , I don't see why one should be allowed to learn how to use a lethal weapon at 8
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Because voting is a directly civil exercise that requires a somewhat adult grasp of life and human nature. That's way harder than operating a lethal weapon.

I would go so far as to say that the two activities you mention are governed under different spheres of authority. The state for voting (since it's a state activity) and the family for gun operation.

That and suffrage shouldn't be universal, but that's another story entirely.
 
Desdichado

Desdichado

Senior Member
#22
Feb 9, 2014
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#22
Born_Again said:
That instructor did so many things wrong he should get a Darwin award. Plain and simple... his range etiquette was sloppy. He handed a kid a fully-automatic weapon. He stood next to her, not behind her. He was not wearing a ballistics vest. (not required but certainly a good idea when handing a kid a fully automatic weapon) Honestly, that dudes family has nothing to complain about other than that guy being too stupid to be around guns.
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I'm happy I'm not the only one who sees this. The man really could have prevented his own death.
 
J

jennymae

Guest
#23
#23
Mitspa said:
Ok ... it just gets under my skin when folks in other countries, who don't understand our constitution or the battle we are in with the leftist, chime in on our gun laws. I'm sorry for being unkind :)
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I wish you could be this nice to Americans as well:p
 
Billyd

Billyd

Senior Member
#26
May 8, 2014
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#26
wwjd_kilden said:
Considering you are not allowed to vote until you are 18 , I don't see why one should be allowed to learn how to use a lethal weapon at 8
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My son was 5 when he killed his first deer. I was sitting in the stand with him. I'm for early training young people to properly and safely use firearms. I also believe that there should always be qualified adult supervision of all young people (under 16 and anyone who has not been properly trained) while they are in possession of a firearm.

Would you rather have the thug down the street teach your children?
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#27
#27
Billyd said:
My son was 5 when he killed his first deer. I was sitting in the stand with him. I'm for early training young people to properly and safely use firearms. I also believe that there should always be qualified adult supervision of all young people (under 16 and anyone who has not been properly trained) while they are in possession of a firearm.

Would you rather have the thug down the street teach your children?
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I'd rather there were no firearms at all
... but that's obviously not going to happen
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#28
#28
wwjd_kilden said:
Considering you are not allowed to vote until you are 18 , I don't see why one should be allowed to learn how to use a lethal weapon at 8
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Well in America, we believe its important to raise our children as we like ...and guns are very much a part of our lives and we intend to keep it that way. :)
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#30
#30
wwjd_kilden said:
I'd rather there were no firearms at all
... but that's obviously not going to happen
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Why not wish no violent people where in the world at all? We would not need guns, if not for bad guys. Whether some of you folks around the world who have some liberty, understand it or not, that liberty you have is directly dependent upon the American people having power to arm themselves and keep our government under the control of the people. Only American constitutional democracy has saved the liberty in the world and that liberty is directly dependent upon our second amendment.
 
Born_Again

Born_Again

Senior Member
#32
Nov 15, 2014
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#32
If there we'rent guns, we'd just find other creative ways to kill each other.
 
V

Voldemort

Guest
#33
#33
Born_Again said:
That instructor did so many things wrong he should get a Darwin award. Plain and simple... his range etiquette was sloppy. He handed a kid a fully-automatic weapon. He stood next to her, not behind her. He was not wearing a ballistics vest. (not required but certainly a good idea when handing a kid a fully automatic weapon) Honestly, that dudes family has nothing to complain about other than that guy being too stupid to be around guns.
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You do make some good points.

However, I don't think wearing kevlar would have stopped the bullet from penetrated his head. The girl told her family that she was uncomfortable shooting the weapon and that she had bruises from shooting it (shoulder stock). Hindsight is 20/20, but I agree that the fault isn't with the gun range.

1.) no common sense age legislation for firing automatic weapons
2.) the instructor didn't exercise extreme caution and safety measures
3.) the family ignored the 9 year old girls complaints of shooting/not wanting to shoot

All of those excuses won't bring the man back and are independent from the gun range. I pray for the family, but I don't think they have a case.
 
V

Voldemort

Guest
#34
#34
Desdichado said:
Not to be one of those fruitcakes, but gun laws really do conform to the slippery slope fallacy due to the political forces behind them. Particularly if they are posed to influence gun culture more than public safety itself.

If you do not allow a 9 year old to handle an Uzi, then it isn't too much of a stretch to say that children shouldn't handle any firearms even while supervised (the Nazis used similar rhetoric when they disarmed the Austrians, actually). No teaching your four year old how to shoot a .22. No pistol range fun for your 13 year old daughter. Etc.

This is simply how the "gun grabbers" work. Unfortunately. I would love to argue within the bounds of the rules of logic, but I happen to live in a world where we question who goes in what bathroom.
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With certain politicians known to "hate guns" I suppose it's not too much of a stretch. However, to the average person, I think it is a bit of a stretch to lump fully automatic weapons with semi-automatic weapons. Maybe there has been a quick and drastic change in the minds of Americans pertaining to guns. I just don't think that if you require an age restriction for automatic weapons that it will be the slippery slope to no guns whatsoever for children.
 
Born_Again

Born_Again

Senior Member
#35
Nov 15, 2014
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#35
Voldemort said:
With certain politicians known to "hate guns" I suppose it's not too much of a stretch. However, to the average person, I think it is a bit of a stretch to lump fully automatic weapons with semi-automatic weapons. Maybe there has been a quick and drastic change in the minds of Americans pertaining to guns. I just don't think that if you require an age restriction for automatic weapons that it will be the slippery slope to no guns whatsoever for children.
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Weapons safety education is important and can be taught to children. I have no problem with that. Its when they get curious about the guns because they've never handled one before, thats when a lot of them get hurt with them.

As for guns in general... If guns kill people, then spoons made Rosie Odonnel fat.
 
V

Voldemort

Guest
#36
#36
Born_Again said:
Weapons safety education is important and can be taught to children. I have no problem with that. Its when they get curious about the guns because they've never handled one before, thats when a lot of them get hurt with them.

As for guns in general... If guns kill people, then spoons made Rosie Odonnel fat.
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I fully agree about the importance of gun safety. Part of gun safety should be not to let children fire automatic weapons considering the potential danger from recoil. With semi-auto weapons, there is no danger other than a deeply bruised child. With automatic weapons, such as an uzi, the recoil could be stronger than the child. That's why it's a different category than semi auto weapons.
 
J

jennymae

Guest
#37
#37
Voldemort said:
I fully agree about the importance of gun safety. Part of gun safety should be not to let children fire automatic weapons considering the potential danger from recoil. With semi-auto weapons, there is no danger other than a deeply bruised child. With automatic weapons, such as an uzi, the recoil could be stronger than the child. That's why it's a different category than semi auto weapons.
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Yes, that is the problem. Automatics goes up like a rocket whenever you are firing it if you aint capable of handling it.
 
Born_Again

Born_Again

Senior Member
#38
Nov 15, 2014
1,585
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#38
jennymae said:
Yes, that is the problem. Automatics goes up like a rocket whenever you are firing it if you aint capable of handling it.
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I will agree. If the child cant handle a fully auto recoil, there should be enough sense to not let the fire it. A regular handgun wouldnt be as bad. There are many young children who can handle a rifle or shot-gun.

The first time I fired a fully auto it rocketed up because I didnt have a firm grip. But I was also pointing it down range. I was also with a bunch of cops LOL We were qualifying on them to carry them in our patrol cars.
 
R

renewed_hope

Guest
#39
#39
Voldemort said:
You do make some good points.

However, I don't think wearing kevlar would have stopped the bullet from penetrated his head. The girl told her family that she was uncomfortable shooting the weapon and that she had bruises from shooting it (shoulder stock). Hindsight is 20/20, but I agree that the fault isn't with the gun range.

1.) no common sense age legislation for firing automatic weapons
2.) the instructor didn't exercise extreme caution and safety measures
3.) the family ignored the 9 year old girls complaints of shooting/not wanting to shoot

All of those excuses won't bring the man back and are independent from the gun range. I pray for the family, but I don't think they have a case.
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Okay I agree with the few people who said this man could have prevented his own death by wearing the proper safety equipment. What do I mean by this? Well like BA mentioned the Kevlar vest, but don't they usually where a helmet and use something to cover their ears to protect them from damaging their hearing? Well, he needid to be fully protected and do his part for his safety. I think the only way they would even have a case is if the shooting range didn't have rules for their employees to wear protective equipment and/or provided it for them while teaching people how to use a gun.

I do send my condolences, but gun control needs to be taken with the greatest responsibility. I grew up around them, but I never got taught how to use them and that's probably a good thing with how accident prone I am lol
 
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