C
Something to think about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG7nSiiHphk
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C
First kill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdn3bIfP7fk
K
Watched the first few minutes.Terrible to see what war does,its sad.Have family in the military myself. Im grateful there are people that go in my place to defend the country.Its sad to see young men disabled but they sign on and this is what happens in war.As far as Bush,he's in the past and not head of anything.Honestly couldnt be bothered to watch long enough to see your point.We get it,some people hated Bush.Obama has had to get involved in war too and many young people have come back disabled.Sad but a fact of war.
A few things strike me about the recent conflicts, though (Iraq, Afghanistan).
1. Bush said during Iraq, and I quote, ''God would tell me 'Go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan, go and end the tyranny in Iraq''. In making this statement, Bush has made these wars religiously motivated of sorts. He's, deliberately or inadvertantly, made this conflict not just a secular or political conflict, but a religious conflict. So I can understand why Middle-Eastern Muslims view this is a crusade and respond to it as such (killing Christians just because they are Christians, etc). I don't condone it, but I can understand it.
2. Bush invaded Afghanistan on the back of 9/11, to kill the terrorists. None of the 9/11 bombers were Afghans, and they were trained in Pakistan. That's kind of like the British Army invading Germany to wipe out the Irish IRA bombers responsible for the attacks in England.
3. Bush spoke of Saddam Hussein's tyranny against his people, in that he killed almost half a million people (about 300,000 of which were killed in the war against Iran, initiated by Iraq, a war which the US openly and publicy supported, then used against Hussein, citing the mass casualties thereof). Iraq, at this point, has suffered anywhere between 500,000 and 1,100,000 excess deaths due to Bush's war,depending on the source material, of which less than 50,000 are combatant deaths. That means Bush has directly or indirectly instigated more civilian deaths than Saddam Hussein ever did. Iraq, in this respect, is no better off. That doesn't include the many deaths in Afghanistan, either.
4. Perhaps most alarmingly, the 'kill list' (America's list of targets) at the beginning of the war was less than a hundred. Now it is in the thousands, and includes boys not even out of their teens yet. There have also been verifiable reports (see ''Dirty Wars'') of children and pregnant women being murdered, and of US soldiers plotting to cover up the blatant murders. If you want answers as to why this kill list has increased, and extremism has become more prevalent, and more young men join these organizations, look no further than incidents like these.
It is, of course, the nature of war for their to be casualties, but Kaylagirl, this war benefits nobody. Not you sitting at home as an American (who the Middle Eastern world wrongly assumes is just as careless and violent and unrelenting as any of those who perpetrate heinous acts out there in Afghanistan and Iraq, just as tyrannical as the people who sanction such operations); not your children in their future lives growing up; not the Muslims in America who were victims of smashed shopfronts and brutal beatings after 9/11; not the young American men out there who think they're fighting for justice and peace; not the men and women of Afghanistan and Iraq who've suffered American brutality, Hussein's brutality and extremist's brutality; not the young men in Iraq and Afghan who feel they have no choice but to sign up and oppose the American interests in these countries; not the world at large who watch this; not the average citizen of both America and Afghanistan who is bombarded with propaganda; not the families of victims of 9/11, many of whom oppose using their loved ones' deaths as justification to murder hundreds of thousands of innocents.
It benefits only those who would benefit from war; those who make money from its perpetuation; those who gain power through such violent means; those who need this war to continue for either financial, political or egotistical reasons. This is evidenced in that the kill list has increased, anti-Americanism has increased, anti-Islamism has increased, international laws have been violated, many innocents have died, and propaganda to my eyes has won out over common sense.
1. Bush said during Iraq, and I quote, ''God would tell me 'Go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan, go and end the tyranny in Iraq''. In making this statement, Bush has made these wars religiously motivated of sorts. He's, deliberately or inadvertantly, made this conflict not just a secular or political conflict, but a religious conflict. So I can understand why Middle-Eastern Muslims view this is a crusade and respond to it as such (killing Christians just because they are Christians, etc). I don't condone it, but I can understand it.
2. Bush invaded Afghanistan on the back of 9/11, to kill the terrorists. None of the 9/11 bombers were Afghans, and they were trained in Pakistan. That's kind of like the British Army invading Germany to wipe out the Irish IRA bombers responsible for the attacks in England.
3. Bush spoke of Saddam Hussein's tyranny against his people, in that he killed almost half a million people (about 300,000 of which were killed in the war against Iran, initiated by Iraq, a war which the US openly and publicy supported, then used against Hussein, citing the mass casualties thereof). Iraq, at this point, has suffered anywhere between 500,000 and 1,100,000 excess deaths due to Bush's war,depending on the source material, of which less than 50,000 are combatant deaths. That means Bush has directly or indirectly instigated more civilian deaths than Saddam Hussein ever did. Iraq, in this respect, is no better off. That doesn't include the many deaths in Afghanistan, either.
4. Perhaps most alarmingly, the 'kill list' (America's list of targets) at the beginning of the war was less than a hundred. Now it is in the thousands, and includes boys not even out of their teens yet. There have also been verifiable reports (see ''Dirty Wars'') of children and pregnant women being murdered, and of US soldiers plotting to cover up the blatant murders. If you want answers as to why this kill list has increased, and extremism has become more prevalent, and more young men join these organizations, look no further than incidents like these.
It is, of course, the nature of war for their to be casualties, but Kaylagirl, this war benefits nobody. Not you sitting at home as an American (who the Middle Eastern world wrongly assumes is just as careless and violent and unrelenting as any of those who perpetrate heinous acts out there in Afghanistan and Iraq, just as tyrannical as the people who sanction such operations); not your children in their future lives growing up; not the Muslims in America who were victims of smashed shopfronts and brutal beatings after 9/11; not the young American men out there who think they're fighting for justice and peace; not the men and women of Afghanistan and Iraq who've suffered American brutality, Hussein's brutality and extremist's brutality; not the young men in Iraq and Afghan who feel they have no choice but to sign up and oppose the American interests in these countries; not the world at large who watch this; not the average citizen of both America and Afghanistan who is bombarded with propaganda; not the families of victims of 9/11, many of whom oppose using their loved ones' deaths as justification to murder hundreds of thousands of innocents.
It benefits only those who would benefit from war; those who make money from its perpetuation; those who gain power through such violent means; those who need this war to continue for either financial, political or egotistical reasons. This is evidenced in that the kill list has increased, anti-Americanism has increased, anti-Islamism has increased, international laws have been violated, many innocents have died, and propaganda to my eyes has won out over common sense.
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K
I really cant speak with intelligence on this subject and what I dont know I shut up about.I wasn't living in the US during much of these issues and really would have to look into it further.But I do know when it comes to dealing with the middle east there is no simple answer.Being a Christian I dont believe there will be an answer until Christ returns. But as they say,war is hell and theres no getting around that fact.
K
Yes this is a sad situation where those who claim to be Christian want to rush into things without worrying about the consequences, and try to use Christ as to support their decisions. Bush has been caught in a number of shaky things and decisions revolving around 911 and the war on terror.
Here we can see him at two separate times making a statement that he saw the first plane hit the towers, when he was at a school and there was no video footage of the first plane hitting;
Here we can see him at two separate times making a statement that he saw the first plane hit the towers, when he was at a school and there was no video footage of the first plane hitting;
President Bush has stated on two occasions that he saw a plane hit World Trade Center 1:
[TABLE="width: 600"]
[TR]
[TD]Occasion 1:
President Bush Holds Town Hall Meeting
[CNN, Aired December 4, 2001]QUESTION: One thing, Mr. President, is that you have no idea how much you've done for this country, and another thing is that how did you feel when you heard about the terrorist attack?
BUSH: Well... (APPLAUSE)
Thank you, Jordan (ph).
Well, Jordan (ph), you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."
But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower. America's under attack."
RealMedia video download of comment
Occasion 2:
President Holds Town Hall Forum on Economy in California
[whitehouse.gov, January 5, 2002]
"I was sitting there, and my Chief of Staff -- well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on..." [whitehouse.gov]
WMA download of comment
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Occasion 1:
President Bush Holds Town Hall Meeting
[CNN, Aired December 4, 2001]QUESTION: One thing, Mr. President, is that you have no idea how much you've done for this country, and another thing is that how did you feel when you heard about the terrorist attack?
BUSH: Well... (APPLAUSE)
Thank you, Jordan (ph).
Well, Jordan (ph), you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."
But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower. America's under attack."
RealMedia video download of comment
Occasion 2:
President Holds Town Hall Forum on Economy in California
[whitehouse.gov, January 5, 2002]
"I was sitting there, and my Chief of Staff -- well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on..." [whitehouse.gov]
WMA download of comment
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
He's also a victim of his self-centered political diatribe that needs someone to blame personally for his terrible, horrible condition.
Wonder what difference it would have made for him had he not left the VA system because he didn't like the way they treated him.
Wonder if his attitude had anything to do with his perception of the way the VA treated him.
Wonder what difference it would have made for him had he not left the VA system because he didn't like the way they treated him.
Wonder if his attitude had anything to do with his perception of the way the VA treated him.
V
The irony is that the video is from an organization that calls itself "Democracy Now" when, in reality, that is the last thing the socialist/Marxist group actually wants.
I have great sympathy for Tomas Young, he being a fellow native Missourian and from Kansas City, which is my more or less adopted hometown after having been born in north Missouri. I, too, voluntarily served in the military. I made a 20-year career out of it, and suffered the consequences of my decisions. But I didn't turn on my country and my comrades because I didn't come out of it well. True, I am not paralyzed, but I suffered 20+ years of PTSD before I agreed with my fellow officers, my family, and several at the VA that, yes, I did indeed have some issues as the result of flying combat helicopters from Vietnam to Desert Storm.
I got help, I moved on. It was not the Army's fault I suffered PTSD. It isn't George W. Bush's fault, Dick Cheney's fault, or the Army's fault Young was paralyzed. I have to question the maturity and intellect of a young man who chooses to go to war, doesn't like the outcome of his volunteerism, and comes up with the "F" word as a response to those he imagines "made him that way."
When one serves in the military, one accepts the realities of serving in combat. A person must understand what he is volunteering to do, if he is going to volunteer to go into the military. War isn't the romantic, manhood-making event Hemingway made it out to be. It is ugly, frightening -- and necessary.
If one makes a lightly-reasoned decision to serve and then doesn't like the outcome, well ... tragically, that's too danged bad. There are only two rules of war -- 1) young men die, and 2) no one can change rule one. If one doesn't understand that, then one shouldn't volunteer to go to war.
I have great sympathy for Tomas Young, he being a fellow native Missourian and from Kansas City, which is my more or less adopted hometown after having been born in north Missouri. I, too, voluntarily served in the military. I made a 20-year career out of it, and suffered the consequences of my decisions. But I didn't turn on my country and my comrades because I didn't come out of it well. True, I am not paralyzed, but I suffered 20+ years of PTSD before I agreed with my fellow officers, my family, and several at the VA that, yes, I did indeed have some issues as the result of flying combat helicopters from Vietnam to Desert Storm.
I got help, I moved on. It was not the Army's fault I suffered PTSD. It isn't George W. Bush's fault, Dick Cheney's fault, or the Army's fault Young was paralyzed. I have to question the maturity and intellect of a young man who chooses to go to war, doesn't like the outcome of his volunteerism, and comes up with the "F" word as a response to those he imagines "made him that way."
When one serves in the military, one accepts the realities of serving in combat. A person must understand what he is volunteering to do, if he is going to volunteer to go into the military. War isn't the romantic, manhood-making event Hemingway made it out to be. It is ugly, frightening -- and necessary.
If one makes a lightly-reasoned decision to serve and then doesn't like the outcome, well ... tragically, that's too danged bad. There are only two rules of war -- 1) young men die, and 2) no one can change rule one. If one doesn't understand that, then one shouldn't volunteer to go to war.
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