GOP Presidential Nomination

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GodIsSalvation

Banned
#981
Dec 18, 2013
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#981
Desdichado said:
Your analysis has a few underlying flaws.

1. The general consensus is that Cruz is eligible.

2. The races in the midwest already seem to be messing with your observed trend. Iowa broke for Cruz. Minnesota broke for Rubio. Oklahoma is hard to peg, but it's arguably midwestern and dashed for Cruz.

3. The West is politically mixed. Regardless, the next leg of the trail largely involves closed primaries where the ideological makeup of the state doesn't matter as much as the ideological makeup of the party.

4. What on earth makes Kasich the strongest candidate of the bunch? He has not even come within striking distance of winning a state. Don't fall back on his record. Nobody cares. That isn't even factoring in fundraising capability and activist mobilization.

I could see his supporters possibly breaking for Trump. Possibly Rubio. Definitely not Cruz.

5. It seems to me that hammering Trump for being...well what he is happens to be working. These things happen in cycles. Cruz had his turn between Iowa and Nevada. Now it looks like Trump has his.


Overall, we agree. Trump is either getting nominated or we get a brokered convention. I suppose I just don't see as easy a path to the nomination as you do. That and I happen to think the Cruz-Rubio duo will make for potent opposition.
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1. Consensus doesn't change the facts and the fact is Crus is a natural born Canadian. Add on top of this fact his own party hates him because he backstabs them and Cruz has no hope even if the convention brokered.

2. My bad, when I say Midwest I mean the Great Lakes. I see those states as the Plains states. Nevertheless Cruz won those states by lying and fraudulent methods. As for Minnesota lol, it's no surprise Trump lost there, it's Little Mecca after all.

3. True and good point.

4. His record is what makes him best indeed. Aside from that just his management style as shown in the campaign proves he's the only one that can reunite the disparate factions of the GOP by peace. Trump can reunite them by strength. The fact Kasich doesn't have big bucks is because he's not a bought off puppet like Cruz and Rubio. That's why Cruz and Rubio are ahead, they're paid off puppets.

5. This I disagree with most, Trump has been dominant the entire time. Even where he has lost he's still come close enough to take a fair portion of delegates, but where he has won he blown out the polls.

Indeed as is oft the case we agree to the ends, but merely not the means lol. I don't think Cruz and Rubio will team up, Cruz is a natural viper, him and Rubio have all ready bit at each other before, I expect they will again.

Lol I guess this is where we enter the Harry Potter allusion for Marco Potter and Cruzdemort:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqwpHjMBwuM
[video=youtube;rqwpHjMBwuM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqwpHjMBwuM[/video]

"Neither can live (politically) while the other survives"
 
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G

GodIsSalvation

Banned
#982
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
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#982
Desdichado said:
Incidentally I'm really glad I started this thread. 2016 is the nomination cycle of nomination cycles. It started out with a crowded field, had a complex winnowing process, and forced political observers, scientists, strategists, and the citizenry to come to grips with their underlying assumptions about well...everything from practical politics to philosophy of governance.

Every election cycle is a crucible or exorcist of some sort. But this one is exception and it has really only just begun.
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I'm glad you made this too, my favorite thread on CC for sure. Politics, high literature allusions, and Christian perspective. What's not to love? Lol and Sir Sirk is even back!
 
Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#983
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
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#983
My gut tells me that after he secures the nomination tonight he will start showing us how he will govern. My theory is that he has been intentionally bombastic because he knew that it was the only way to beat the media at their own game. Once his standing is solidified he will show us that he is not unreasonable as well as a good negotiator. His employees love him...he is generous and he knows how to cut thru all the crap and make things happen. He has the media right where he has always wanted them...eating out if his hand.
 
Desdichado

Desdichado

Senior Member
#984
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
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#984
GodIsSalvation said:
1. Consensus doesn't change the facts and the fact is Crus is a natural born Canadian. Add on top of this fact his own party hates him because he backstabs them and Cruz has no hope even if the convention brokered.

2. My bad, when I say Midwest I mean the Great Lakes. I see those states as the Plains states. Nevertheless Cruz won those states by lying and fraudulent methods. As for Minnesota lol, it's no surprise Trump lost there, it's Little Mecca after all.

3. True and good point.

4. His record is what makes him best indeed. Aside from that just his management style as shown in the campaign proves he's the only one that can reunite the disparate factions of the GOP by peace. Trump can reunite them by strength. The fact Kasich doesn't have big bucks is because he's not a bought off puppet like Cruz and Rubio. That's why Cruz and Rubio are ahead, they're paid off puppets.

5. This I disagree with most, Trump has been dominant the entire time. Even where he has lost he's still come close enough to take a fair portion of delegates, but where he has won he blown out the polls.

Indeed as is oft the case we agree to the ends, but merely not the means lol. I don't think Cruz and Rubio will team up, Cruz is a natural viper, him and Rubio have all ready bit at each other before, I expect they will again.

Lol I guess this is where we enter the Harry Potter allusion for Rubio Potter and Cruzdemort:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqwpHjMBwuM
[video=youtube;rqwpHjMBwuM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqwpHjMBwuM[/video]

"Neither can live (politically) while the other survives"
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1. Consensus doesn't matter in politics? I guess I don't have to vote or convince anyone of anything. Thanks! Where's my cave?

2. It can't even be proven that Cruz had a direct hand in the Iowa curfuffle. Texas, Oklahoma, and Alaska were won on his appeal as a consistent, anti-establishmentarian conservative.

3. Thanks.

4. Kasich can't raise funds because he isn't largely seen as a viable candidate. The relationship between donor and donee is not as simple as puppet/puppet-master. It's more analogous to horse racing in both positive and negative aspects.

5. A poetic student of history like yourself knows full well that there are times the mighty fall. I think that this is the weakest part of the cycle for Trump. If he can weather it, he's earned the nomination.

6. Back to the point about Cruz. Hostile takeovers of conventions are definitely possible even with party big wig opposition. I've seen it happen more than once at the state-level. You have to be organized in lobbying and mobilizing activists. Cruz is clearly the best with the activist base. You know, the people who will actually go to Cleveland on their own dime and live off of Ramen because the cause demands it.

Trump wouldn't be as prepared. But there are still ways he can win a convention. I will not say how, because, again, I don't want to give Trumpkins any ideas.


I value our online friendship greatly. It's nice to spar intelligently on the particulars of things.
 
Desdichado

Desdichado

Senior Member
#985
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
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#985
Sirk said:
My gut tells me that after he secures the nomination tonight he will start showing us how he will govern. My theory is that he has been intentionally bombastic because he knew that it was the only way to beat the media at their own game. Once his standing is solidified he will show us that he is not unreasonable as well as a good negotiator. His employees love him...he is generous and he knows how to cut thru all the crap and make things happen. He has the media right where he has always wanted them...eating out if his hand.
Click to expand...
Dude! This makes my night!
 
Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#986
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
113
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#986
Desdichado said:
Dude! This makes my night!
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It'll be interesting to see if we see a different side of Trump tonight. He has thoroughly exposed all the rats in the GOP. They will attack him but it will only make him stronger.
 
Desdichado

Desdichado

Senior Member
#987
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
113
#987
Sirk said:
It'll be interesting to see if we see a different side of Trump tonight. He has thoroughly exposed all the rats in the GOP. They will attack him but it will only make him stronger.
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He was being attacked from a different direction at the last debate, but Romney reset the clock today in a bad way.

It was weak, came across as petty, and backfired on the anti-Trump cause.

Like I said though, we may be entering an Anti-Trump mini-season where a continual barrage may harm the colossus. Especially if more things like Trump University, Polish illegals, etc. come out.
 
G

GodIsSalvation

Banned
#988
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
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#988
Desdichado said:
He was being attacked from a different direction at the last debate, but Romney reset the clock today in a bad way.

It was weak, came across as petty, and backfired on the anti-Trump cause.

Like I said though, we may be entering an Anti-Trump mini-season where a continual barrage may harm the colossus. Especially if more things like Trump University, Polish illegals, etc. come out.
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Lol I saw Mitt's stuff earlier. Pretty rich for Romney of all people to call anyone a phony when he believes in a phony false prophet influenced by a phony angel that claimed to decipher some phony gold plates in a phony language creating one of phoniest false religions this side of history.

Lol I like how every pagan is scared to hell that we might nominate Trump.
 
Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#989
Mar 2, 2016
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#989
This guy on my Facebook feed who is a friend and has a Dr by his name posted the Romney statement as if he is some champion of conservative causes. The guy has more in common with Hillary than he does any conservative causes. I think Trump thrives on the controversy leveled at him.
 
G

GodIsSalvation

Banned
#990
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
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#990
Sirk said:
This guy on my Facebook feed who is a friend and has a Dr by his name posted the Romney statement as if he is some champion of conservative causes. The guy has more in common with Hillary than he does any conservative causes. I think Trump thrives on the controversy leveled at him.
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I agree. It's not so much even the controversy levelled at him, but Trump basically exposes all the malefactors in American politics whether he intends to or not. He really doesn't have to say too much, they do it themselves. It's like when he talked about banning islam and in that moment every traitor in America lifted up their voice in protest. Reminded me of the usurper Athaliah and her cries of treason. Good advice from Jehoiada; have her forth without the ranges and slay any man that follows her.
 
Desdichado

Desdichado

Senior Member
#991
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
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#991
What makes Romney a phony is that he essentially endorsed Trump when Trump endorsed him in 2008. He praised Trump's business acumen and command of world affairs. Now that Trump is on another team, he is suddenly Satan. Give me a break.

This is why nobody trusts things associated with the name "Republican."
 
Desdichado

Desdichado

Senior Member
#992
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
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#992
I happen to dislike Trump now. But Romney? Way higher on Des' crap list.
 
G

GodIsSalvation

Banned
#993
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
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#993
Well just finished watching that debate. Lol wow they did a big hit job on Trump, and I think it was a little effective, they kinda stumped him. So it seems Megyn Kelly is the only one that can stump the Trump. I noticed it seems indeed the Rubio-Canadian Pact has been signed as you theorized sir Desdichado. Didn't see them go at it besides indirectly with Cruz slighting Rubio on the Gang of 8 stuff. Nevertheless wow they might as well be allies, little Marco and Cruzdemort basically hari kari'd themselves.

I think my servant Kasich did well tonight. Frankly with how badly Trump, Rubio, and Cruz exposed themselves as either total liars, backstabbers, grossly incompetent, or major flip floppers I'd say anyone who doesn't vote Kasich is either paid off or doesn't have the mental capacity to legally make decisions.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#994
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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#994
GIS. when you talk Kasich you sound alot like some of those fellows in BDF that claim sinlessness.:) Now come clean with Kasich, surely there is some dirt under his nails.
 
G

GodIsSalvation

Banned
#995
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
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#995
crossnote said:
GIS. when you talk Kasich you sound alot like some of those fellows in BDF that claim sinlessness.:) Now come clean with Kasich, surely there is some dirt under his nails.
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Lol I never claimed he was sinless, or maybe a better term be politically negative. For his personal side of things the biggest problem would be Kasich is remarried, albeit him and his ex spouse are said to be on good terms and did not have children together. Though obviously that's not going to be a big factor in America, especially with one like Trump prevailing.

In terms of his biggest political fallibility, I am pretty sure I mentioned it earlier in this topic or another, but I basically do not like Kasich's position of allying with the muslims or trying to form the "Arab" coalition they keep talking about to defeat the Islamic State. Which of course I would view as essentially creating a caliphate bigger and more horrible than the Islamic State. Kasich's not the only one with that view though, virtually all the candidates of both sides have echoed this terrible idea.

Aside from that Kasich did try to break down the unions, but that's a pretty conservative position so I reckon most ya'll wouldn't see that as a fault and I cannot fault Kasich for that because he put it up to a referendum and the people said no and he respected the will of the people and has not tried it again.

That's about all I am aware of that's negative about Kasich.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#996
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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#996
GodIsSalvation said:
Lol I never claimed he was sinless, or maybe a better term be politically negative. For his personal side of things the biggest problem would be Kasich is remarried, albeit him and his ex spouse are said to be on good terms and did not have children together. Though obviously that's not going to be a big factor in America, especially with one like Trump prevailing.

In terms of his biggest political fallibility, I am pretty sure I mentioned it earlier in this topic or another, but I basically do not like Kasich's position of allying with the muslims or trying to form the "Arab" coalition they keep talking about to defeat the Islamic State. Which of course I would view as essentially creating a caliphate bigger and more horrible than the Islamic State. Kasich's not the only one with that view though, virtually all the candidates of both sides have echoed this terrible idea.

Aside from that Kasich did try to break down the unions, but that's a pretty conservative position so I reckon most ya'll wouldn't see that as a fault and I cannot fault Kasich for that because he put it up to a referendum and the people said no and he respected the will of the people and has not tried it again.

That's about all I am aware of that's negative about Kasich.
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Re: the Union thingy, I am sort of a union guy myself as I see it as a check and balance mechanism on corporate greed. I do realize Unions can get out of hand as well... so a strong union and a strong corporation is ideal.
 
G

GodIsSalvation

Banned
#997
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
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#997
crossnote said:
Re: the Union thingy, I am sort of a union guy myself as I see it as a check and balance mechanism on corporate greed. I do realize Unions can get out of hand as well... so a strong union and a strong corporation is ideal.
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I agree thisi s my position on unions as well. That's why personally I'd see it as a negative for him for trying that, but again I have to give him a little credit, he put it to a referendum and then respected the will of the people for refusing him by ballot. It is kind of a good example why I like Kasich, he is very servant minded and understands the role of government in America. While he does take the stereotypical conservative positions and works to advance the conservative agenda, Kasich also has an open-handed approach to governance and unlike Bush and Obama he will respect the will of the people.
 
A

AuntieAnt

Guest
#999
#999
Recap of the 3 Amigos Debate:


[video=youtube;m2PhIUrvxEg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2PhIUrvxEg[/video]
 
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