Has a Thread discussing the Constitutionality of Shelter in Place been discussed?

[eternally-gratefull]

lets look at how things have been

The president wants to lock down our borders. he wants people to practice social distancing. and some other stuff. and he gets attacked for wanting to do it for gain.

The governor of New York defy's the call to social distancing, Attacking the president of not doing enough and blaming him, telling people to go out and live their lives as if nothing is happening

And now New York is the hardest his area in the country

Add New Orleans, who is sharply rising because they refused to cancel mardi gras, And california and washington state. who was hit hard, until they shut their cities and states down.

why do we not become part of the solution, not the problem, all this division at this time when we need to all come together, is just another sign of how low we as a society has fallen

 

[p_rehbein]

What about this? The greatest imperative in our lives is to be in relationship with God. We are to be love to the world. We are to be his representatives. How are we doing this if we jump up and down and demand our rights to ignore the needs and safety of others? The world already thinks we are self-entitled, condescending people. We need to act in love for others. We need to self distance. We need to prevent others from getting ill. We are most contagious before symptoms occur. We need to not be self-centered. We need to care about the vulnerable. We do not have the right to hurt them. It doesn't matter if we have the right to endanger others. We need to stop thinking only about ourselves. Do not tell the world that Jesus loves them and that we love Jesus, and then be uncaring. That is not OK. That is not behaviour from God. We need to stop our selfishness and repent. Model and caring and selfless attitude and then share your faith, otherwise our words are meaningless. Less of us and more of God. We have a chance during this pandemic to make a difference and be seen and different. It is up to us to lift up God or to confirm what the world thinks of us. It is up to us to do better.

Wow! Wayyyyyy off there dude............ My concern was not solely for myself, it was for all the peoples of the US. As well, when the Government takes upon itself the power to do one thing, it is wayyyy easier for them to do it again and again and again. We have a Constitution that protects ALL the people. This particular action has had a dramatic effect on Churches around the Country. Not ALL people have computers or access to Internet, so, while some may be able to worship in such a way, not ALL can, and those that are left out surely have a cause to question this "action."

You must have some personal issues with me to have made your comment directed in such a "personal" way...........that's ok, no matter to me............but, goodness, reading comprehension is a wonderful thing to practice.

The BASE question is was this Shelter in Place Constitutional. There are Laws that are NOT Constitutional and have been overturned upon appeal...........so, just saying "it's the Law" does not make it Constitutional. IF that were so, we would still have slavery and dem durn wemmens wouldn't be able to vote............. But, then, I suspect you might think the slaves and them wemmesn wuz jest being selfish huh?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think people forget. Each state has made their decision to do what they deem appropriate in their state

trump did not force Ohio churches to close. The State of Ohio has however enacted command which says nothing of ten or more people should be opened. However, if a church wishes to open their doors, they state would not come after them (the US Govt has no authority to do that anyway)

however, if churches wish to place their people. and their families. and in turn other people they come in contact in danger by refusing to abide by what the governor wishes. Well lets just say that church has some serious questions to answer. especially if it is found people die because that church did not wish to do what so many other churches around the nation has done.

People need to remember, the church represents God. And if people see the church doing something that puts people in danger, It reflects on how they percieve God, since they see the church as representing God

 

[Billyd]

God will hold every church accountable for its negligence in providing for the safety of its members.

I can foresee many lawsuits against churches who do not employ safety rules, and someone gets covid19. How many churches are in a position to pay significant judgements.

 

[p_rehbein]

Why do you think they are being irresponsible wanting to congregate to worship and praise God? EVERYDARNDAY, Walmart and other Box Stores are full of customers, and so are many other places. People are out bike riding, jogging, playing all sorts of sports, working, traveling, shopping and many other activities. Guess God will just have to strike down the whole world........

As for Christians/Churches, it's NOT that they want to have services without precautions, it's THAT the Government is trying to shut down Church Services, and/or Regulate Services.

SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

Anyone remember that? Funny how when it suits the Government, they can do as they wish and refuse the Church to be involved in State activities, and then when they wish reverse themselves and jump into Church activities.

More than a few Congregations arouInd the Country are not accepting Regulation of freedom of worship. ONE STATE, Kansas has taken a more serious action........

Kansas lawmakers overturn order limiting religious gatherings ...

I see it here, and all around the Country on my TV, watching Christians/citizens running around doing all sorts of things without concern for Shelter in Place, and they aren't calling anyone selfish or for God to condemn them, yet, when it comes to having Services to worship God..............they ARE all upset over people wanting to do that...

go figure........

 

[JohnR7]

The trick is that the government has to give good evidence and reasoning for such a call.

No they don't, they can do whatever they want. The only power we have is to not re elect them. Usually they are about to retire so the threat not to re elect them is not much of a threat. Our local mayor is pretty young and he wants to be re elected so he is careful not to get people upset with him.

The first passover was 3333 years ago. In the Bible they do quarantine sick people. They have been doing this for at least 3333 years now. But I have never heard of a quarantine on healthy people and I think that is an abuse of the law. There was a real plague at the first passover and we have a real plague now we are dealing with. So that does change thing for when passover was symbolic and people were not really dieing.

 

[JohnR7]

My wife works at meijer, a department/grocery store.. Its crazy what she sees every day..

My wife worked as a cashier in grocery store many years ago and I made her quit. Just because of this situation here that people travel all over the world and there is no protection for the cashier not to get exposed to all sorts of sickness. I hear now they are starting to put up some plastic shields and making an attempt to try to protect them.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

No they don't, they can do whatever they want. The only power we have is to not re elect them. Usually they are about to retire so the threat not to re elect them is not much of a threat. Our local mayor is pretty young and he wants to be re elected so he is careful not to get people upset with him.

The first passover was 3333 years ago. In the Bible they do quarantine sick people. They have been doing this for at least 3333 years now. But I have never heard of a quarantine on healthy people and I think that is an abuse of the law. There was a real plague at the first passover and we have a real plague now we are dealing with. So that does change thing for when passover was symbolic and people were not really dieing.

No they don't, they can do whatever they want.

Maybe in your country. But in America our Constitution separates power.

But I have never heard of a quarantine on healthy people and I think that is an abuse of the law.

Try reading about America's response to the Spanish Flu. There was quarantines and misdemeanors to jail times up to 7 days for breaking it.

As for whatever else you said. I see no correlation to the subject.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My wife worked as a cashier in grocery store many years ago and I made her quit. Just because of this situation here that people travel all over the world and there is no protection for the cashier not to get exposed to all sorts of sickness. I hear now they are starting to put up some plastic shields and making an attempt to try to protect them.

Yeah they did, plus wearing face masks

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do you think they are being irresponsible wanting to congregate to worship and praise God? EVERYDARNDAY, Walmart and other Box Stores are full of customers, and so are many other places. People are out bike riding, jogging, playing all sorts of sports, working, traveling, shopping and many other activities. Guess God will just have to strike down the whole world........

As for Christians/Churches, it's NOT that they want to have services without precautions, it's THAT the Government is trying to shut down Church Services, and/or Regulate Services.

SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

Anyone remember that? Funny how when it suits the Government, they can do as they wish and refuse the Church to be involved in State activities, and then when they wish reverse themselves and jump into Church activities.

More than a few Congregations arouInd the Country are not accepting Regulation of freedom of worship. ONE STATE, Kansas has taken a more serious action........

Kansas lawmakers overturn order limiting religious gatherings ...

I see it here, and all around the Country on my TV, watching Christians/citizens running around doing all sorts of things without concern for Shelter in Place, and they aren't calling anyone selfish or for God to condemn them, yet, when it comes to having Services to worship God..............they ARE all upset over people wanting to do that...

go figure........

View attachment 214274

They did the same thing in the early 1900’s with the Spanish flue,

walmart is open, but they are supposed to be maintaining distance, if people do not do it it is on them, that is not really possible in a church, where you are all put together, well unless you have a tiny church, with a few members in a big building.

we Have something they did not I thought on Zoom last night, and sunday we will have one our leaders speak online, they did not have that possibility, and they survived, and guess what, the churches survived to

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No they don't, they can do whatever they want. The only power we have is to not re elect them. Usually they are about to retire so the threat not to re elect them is not much of a threat. Our local mayor is pretty young and he wants to be re elected so he is careful not to get people upset with him.

The first passover was 3333 years ago. In the Bible they do quarantine sick people. They have been doing this for at least 3333 years now. But I have never heard of a quarantine on healthy people and I think that is an abuse of the law. There was a real plague at the first passover and we have a real plague now we are dealing with. So that does change thing for when passover was symbolic and people were not really dieing.

Lookup the spanish flu pandemic, this is not the first time

 

[Desdichado]

State and local quarantine measures are a-okay constitutionally. Federal measures are a little less clear-cut. If Trump were to issue a shelter-in-place order for something like COVID19, it would probably violate the amendments mentioned by the OP and, additionally, the 10th Amendment.

 

[JohnR7]

Maybe in your country. But in America our Constitution separates power.

The constitution was designed to protect the church from the government. No one church can become the state church like we see in other countries. The Roman church not only wants to dominate that country they want to dominate the world with their doctorine. I do not have any problem with what they believe but I know there are people that do.

 

[JohnR7]

State and local quarantine measures are a-okay constitutionally.

I do not think they have the power to quarantine healthy people. They have always quarantined the sick in order to protect the healthy. Althogh my brother remembers in 1949 they did quarantine healthy children to protect them from polio. After the vaccine people with polio were no longer considered to be a risk and my dad use to take us to visit with one of his polio patients.

 

[JohnR7]

Lookup the spanish flu pandemic, this is not the first time

It is always difficult to predict the future. It is always easier to look back on what they should have done. In the case of the spanish flu the soldiers returning from the war should have been quarantined for a month or so to be sure they did not spread the flu. The problem we have now is that people do a lot of traveling and that is starting to become a problem. Also they like to gather in large groups for sporting events and concerts and this is of concern to people.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

The constitution was designed to protect the church from the government. No one church can become the state church like we see in other countries. The Roman church not only wants to dominate that country they want to dominate the world with their doctorine. I do not have any problem with what they believe but I know there are people that do.

How is this relevant to the title of the thread or what I said? I may have missed something.

 

[Absolutely]

What kind of law is needed that churches are "essential entities " and not banned in the future?
We do have the constitutional protection.
But banning services is overkill.
As is not targeting those most vulnerable.
80% of the population is at almost no risk of death.

What most do not realize is 1) they borrowed death numbers from non corona victims to hype the fear and panic.
2) the virus had a purpose
3) the fear made IT ALL POSSIBLE.
4)The death predictions were millions. Another fear factor.
5) ....and listen closely. They now have a precedent. This passive acceptance of your rights forsaken ESTABLISHES the dynamic to take more of your rights. You guys just agree to rights lost "for the greater good"
That gives THEM THE RIGHT to shut down/close churches FOR THE FEAR OF INFLATED DEATH TOLL TO EVERY FLU OR MANUFACTURED CRISIS!!!

YOU SUBMITTED TO A PRE EMPTIVE FALSE PREDICTION OF MASSIVE MILLIONS DEAD.

Now china/democratic deep state sees how well this works.
This was/is a prototype. It worked like a charm.

 

[Absolutely]

The deception over america is great.

Look at them buying room fulls of toilet paper.
This country better wake up.

 

[Susanna]

What kind of law is needed that churches are "essential entities " and not banned in the future?
We do have the constitutional protection.
But banning services is overkill.
As is not targeting those most vulnerable.
80% of the population is at almost no risk of death.

What most do not realize is 1) they borrowed death numbers from non corona victims to hype the fear and panic.
2) the virus had a purpose
3) the fear made IT ALL POSSIBLE.
4)The death predictions were millions. Another fear factor.
5) ....and listen closely. They now have a precedent. This passive acceptance of your rights forsaken ESTABLISHES the dynamic to take more of your rights. You guys just agree to rights lost "for the greater good"
That gives THEM THE RIGHT to shut down/close churches FOR THE FEAR OF INFLATED DEATH TOLL TO EVERY FLU OR MANUFACTURED CRISIS!!!

YOU SUBMITTED TO A PRE EMPTIVE FALSE PREDICTION OF MASSIVE MILLIONS DEAD.

Now china/democratic deep state sees how well this works.
This was/is a prototype. It worked like a charm.

It must be thrilling to have it all figured out, without carrying any responsibilities for the outcome like our leaders have to.

 

[EleventhHour]

It must be thrilling to have it all figured out, without carrying any responsibilities for the outcome like our leaders have to.

Wow .. you really hit the nail on the head in that post.