House tax plan released

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Jenizona

Jenizona

Senior Member
#21
Aug 8, 2015
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#21
Billyd said:
I know a several families that have passed large estates to their heirs. None have paid estate tax. Getting rid of that tax is just a "feel good" thing. If you have a large estate, get an estate attorney now.
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Hi, Billyd! Yes, the way they do that is by making an LLC (Limited Liability Corporation) with their heirs as partners. Usually, it splits up the total value of the property, and everyone gets a percentage. That way, when the owner dies, the total value of the owner's percentage is less than than the value needed to apply the estate tax.

Good point, thank you for mentioning it! Sadly, some people didn't get theirs or didn't know to get an estate attorney, and still lost their beautiful property.

Ever seen the musical "Oklahoma"? That was actually filmed right here in Southern Arizona (Sorry, Oklahoma!) On the Sharp's Ranch. The Sharp's Ranch was a huge, beautiful ranch that had been handed down through their family for generations. Sadly, they lost it when Mrs. Sharp died and they couldn't afford the taxes. So the government got it. Now it is "San Rafael State Park." Makes me sad, actually. :(

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Rafael_Ranch

https://azstateparks.com/san-rafael/
 
S

Society

Guest
#22
#22
Jenizona said:
Yes, I do, actually... and it applies to ranches and farms as well, whether or not the family has enough assets to cover the outrageous taxes assessed at the ranch owner's death. Don't you think it should go to the children instead of to the government? I do.
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The number of ranches and farms affected by the estate tax after exemptions is 0.6%, or half a percentage point. Whoop de do. Moreover no one can find a single family that had to sell all of or even a part of their farm to cover the tax among those in that 0.6%.

Jenizona said:
Hmm, it seems your numbers are wrong... it applies to estates worth more than 5.6 million or more. Not "10 million or more." According to the IRS website. If I'm wrong, please send a link with the correct information! Thank you!
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Well it's true that is is 5.6 if you are a single person, the vast majority are married and in families hence the higher threshold.
 
Jenizona

Jenizona

Senior Member
#23
Aug 8, 2015
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#23
Society said:
The number of ranches and farms affected by the estate tax after exemptions is 0.6%, or half a percentage point. Whoop de do. Moreover no one can find a single family that had to sell all of or even a part of their farm to cover the tax among those in that 0.6%.

Well it's true that is is 5.6 if you are a single person, the vast majority are married and in families hence the higher threshold.
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I just pointed out a family here in Southern Arizona that lost their ranch due to this. Maybe read the previous post.

But since you missed it, here it is again.

https://azstateparks.com/san-rafael/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Rafael_Ranch
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#24
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#24
Jenizona said:
Hi, Billyd! Yes, the way they do that is by making an LLC (Limited Liability Corporation) with their heirs as partners. Usually, it splits up the total value of the property, and everyone gets a percentage. That way, when the owner dies, the total value of the owner's percentage is less than than the value needed to apply the estate tax.

Good point, thank you for mentioning it! Sadly, some people didn't get theirs or didn't know to get an estate attorney, and still lost their beautiful property.

Ever seen the musical "Oklahoma"? That was actually filmed right here in Southern Arizona (Sorry, Oklahoma!) On the Sharp's Ranch. The Sharp's Ranch was a huge, beautiful ranch that had been handed down through their family for generations. Sadly, they lost it when Mrs. Sharp died and they couldn't afford the taxes. So the government got it. Now it is "San Rafael State Park." Makes me sad, actually. :(

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Rafael_Ranch

https://azstateparks.com/san-rafael/
Click to expand...
It's not the governments fault that they failed to properly plan for the succession of the business. Estate taxes have been taken care of by life insurance planning for decades. Kind of like folks who lose everything in a flood because they did not buy flood insurance or even the poor renter of an apartment who did not buy renters insurance and a fire consumed all their possessions.

Apologies for the rant but don't blame the government for personal failures. Be a good steward of the things God entrusts to you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jenizona

Jenizona

Senior Member
#25
Aug 8, 2015
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#25
notuptome said:
It's not the governments fault that they failed to properly plan for the succession of the business. Estate taxes have been taken care of by life insurance planning for decades. Kind of like folks who lose everything in a flood because they did not buy flood insurance or even the poor renter of an apartment who did not buy renters insurance and a fire consumed all their possessions.

Apologies for the rant but don't blame the government for personal failures. Be a good steward of the things God entrusts to you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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"It's not the governments fault that they failed to properly plan for the succession of the business." It's the government's fault that these taxes are being assessed in the first place... taxes have already been paid on these lands. They paid tax when they BOUGHT the land, and they pay property taxes on it EVERY YEAR. What, pray tell, is the logic in assessing such HUGE taxes when someone dies?? That makes zero sense at all.

To be forced to pay estate attorney fees to set up a corporation to protect the land you own from the government is ridiculous.

I am against estate taxes. Period.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#26
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#26
Jenizona said:
"It's not the governments fault that they failed to properly plan for the succession of the business." It's the government's fault that these taxes are being assessed in the first place... taxes have already been paid on these lands. They paid tax when they BOUGHT the land, and they pay property taxes on it EVERY YEAR. What, pray tell, is the logic in assessing such HUGE taxes when someone dies?? That makes zero sense at all.

To be forced to pay estate attorney fees to set up a corporation to protect the land you own from the government is ridiculous.

I am against estate taxes. Period.
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I'm not for estate taxes any more than I am for people dying but it is a reality that can and should be properly addressed.

2Co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#27
Jan 18, 2016
7,096
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#27
Judging from how the estate tax idea is being defended (for lack of a better term) it sounds as if it should have been called the "death tax for lazy/ignorant people".

If we agree that it is not fair for the government to stick a confiscatory tax on property that has already been taxed, simply because the owner dies.... but you can avoid that unfair tax if you are savvy enough to take advantage of the "tax avoidance procedures" allowed by the tax law, then it follows that this is a tax on lazy/ignorant people.

render unto Caesar, indeed.
 
Billyd

Billyd

Senior Member
#28
May 8, 2014
5,216
1,620
113
#28
Jenizona said:
Hi, Billyd! Yes, the way they do that is by making an LLC (Limited Liability Corporation) with their heirs as partners. Usually, it splits up the total value of the property, and everyone gets a percentage. That way, when the owner dies, the total value of the owner's percentage is less than than the value needed to apply the estate tax.

Good point, thank you for mentioning it! Sadly, some people didn't get theirs or didn't know to get an estate attorney, and still lost their beautiful property.

Ever seen the musical "Oklahoma"? That was actually filmed right here in Southern Arizona (Sorry, Oklahoma!) On the Sharp's Ranch. The Sharp's Ranch was a huge, beautiful ranch that had been handed down through their family for generations. Sadly, they lost it when Mrs. Sharp died and they couldn't afford the taxes. So the government got it. Now it is "San Rafael State Park." Makes me sad, actually. :(

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Rafael_Ranch

https://azstateparks.com/san-rafael/
Click to expand...
If you own a significant estate, when your will is probated, the vultures come out of the wood works. There is no value of your estate that is exempt from them. An estate attorney is a small expense to protect your estate from them.
 
Jenizona

Jenizona

Senior Member
#29
Aug 8, 2015
629
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#29
Billyd said:
If you own a significant estate, when your will is probated, the vultures come out of the wood works. There is no value of your estate that is exempt from them. An estate attorney is a small expense to protect your estate from them.
Click to expand...
I am in agreement... and I am still glad the Estate Tax -might- be going away. :-D
 
Billyd

Billyd

Senior Member
#30
May 8, 2014
5,216
1,620
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#30
hornetguy said:
Judging from how the estate tax idea is being defended (for lack of a better term) it sounds as if it should have been called the "death tax for lazy/ignorant people".

If we agree that it is not fair for the government to stick a confiscatory tax on property that has already been taxed, simply because the owner dies.... but you can avoid that unfair tax if you are savvy enough to take advantage of the "tax avoidance procedures" allowed by the tax law, then it follows that this is a tax on lazy/ignorant people.

render unto Caesar, indeed.
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Jenizona is correct. It's a ridiculous tax, and it actually adds little to the revenue of the government.

Your statement is also correct. It is full of loop holes designed to let the writers of the legislation's constituents avoid it. Unfortunately, it takes a lawyer to sort out the detailed actions to avoid it.
 
Billyd

Billyd

Senior Member
#31
May 8, 2014
5,216
1,620
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#31
Jenizona said:
I am in agreement... and I am still glad the Estate Tax -might- be going away. :-D
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I would rather they do away with the all the loopholes in the current tax laws. If they did that, the estate tax would effect the bill writers in the pocket book, and it would disappear in a heartbeat. Don't hold your breath, I don't believe either will happen.
 
Jenizona

Jenizona

Senior Member
#33
Aug 8, 2015
629
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#33
Society said:
Your links don't say the ranch was lost due to an inheritance tax.
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Yes, I know the family personally. The links were just to demonstrate that it used to be privately owned, and is now owned by the state.
 
S

Society

Guest
#34
#34
Jenizona said:
Yes, I know the family personally. The links were just to demonstrate that it used to be privately owned, and is now owned by the state.
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So? I don't know them and nothing you've provided backs up your claim. Both sites say it was purchased to be turned into a nature reserve and historical site.
 
Tommy379

Tommy379

Notorious Member
#35
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
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#35
Why do Canadians care about US tax laws?
 
Jenizona

Jenizona

Senior Member
#36
Aug 8, 2015
629
28
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#36
Society said:
So? I don't know them and nothing you've provided backs up your claim. Both sites say it was purchased to be turned into a nature reserve and historical site.
Click to expand...

Society, I grew up on a cattle ranch in southern Arizona. I'm very familiar with estate taxes. My own family formed a corporation to avoid having to pay these taxes. We were a neighboring ranch to the Sharps, and it's very sad that they lost their property to the "death taxes." Yes, I wish they had done something to avoid losing it.

So when I said, this morning,

Jenizona said:
Oh! Getting rid of the Estate Tax is in there!! Yeah, awesome!!! FINALLY!
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I was expressing genuine joy that this tax, which has personally affected my family and my friends, may finally be going away.

When you said:

Society said:
Do you even have a clue what the estate tax is or who it applies to? it effects families that are worth other 10 million or more. Only 2 out of every 1000 estates are even affected by it.
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I was kind of surprised because, yes, I am intimately familiar with the estate tax, and you seemed like you wanted to attack me for some reason, for being against it.

If you are in favor of the estate tax, you and I disagree.

I don't really owe you an explanation, and I don't really appreciate your rude tone throughout this discussion. What exactly would you like me to "prove"? That I was a rancher? How would you like me to prove that? Pics of me on the ranch? Do you want me to "prove" the Sharps lost their ranch due to the tax situation? How exactly would you like me to "prove" that? Pictures of Mrs. Sharp's will and a statement from the IRS about the taxes owed at death?

If you want to fight, look somewhere else. Seriously. Cut it out. Please.
 
M

mj007

Banned
#38
Feb 5, 2017
1,118
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#38
Tax bands in anything were created in history when computers were not around. It's about time that tax bands were replaced with formulaic tax on anything.

 
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