Iran attacks Israel, sends hundreds of drones, missiles

[JohnDB]

Show me one scholar who says Revelation was written before 70 AD.

I say it was an earlier date....so:
Me.
Circulation was a bit delayed but internal evidence suggests it as well as historical evidence.

Many people believe it was written all in one sitting....I do not. I also do not believe that John's hand held the pen. (Paper was expensive. Ink wasn't cheap either. And young eyes would be needed for the small print that LONG letters like this would be written in)

The labor of writing is tedium that takes time....a good bit of it. And John's old eyes (even if he was the youngest Apostle) would already be too far gone to write. Not to mention the tortures he had already endured....his hands would have been worthless for writing precision at this point.

It likely took at least a week (if not two or three) for an apprentice on the prison island to write the volume out carefully so it could be read clearly by ALL the recipients. (7 churches)

Then there's the matter of getting the letter off the island. They don't let prisoners out of prison for good behavior.

So....a date of 65-66 AD but delivered and circulated a couple years later is not out of the question. Circulation would have been almost immediate after leaving the Island.

What I personally find is that a macro as well as micro view of prophesy is necessary to understand. Writing prophets usually stick to one task of the three. Exhortation, forthtelling, or foretelling. John does not. He engages in all three. (Unique)

Then there's the formula for future telling of near, mid, and far....humm....

GLTY.

 

[ZNP]

I say it was an earlier date....so:
Me.
Circulation was a bit delayed but internal evidence suggests it as well as historical evidence.

Many people believe it was written all in one sitting....I do not. I also do not believe that John's hand held the pen. (Paper was expensive. Ink wasn't cheap either. And young eyes would be needed for the small print that LONG letters like this would be written in)

The labor of writing is tedium that takes time....a good bit of it. And John's old eyes (even if he was the youngest Apostle) would already be too far gone to write. Not to mention the tortures he had already endured....his hands would have been worthless for writing precision at this point.

It likely took at least a week (if not two or three) for an apprentice on the prison island to write the volume out carefully so it could be read clearly by ALL the recipients. (7 churches)

Then there's the matter of getting the letter off the island. They don't let prisoners out of prison for good behavior.

So....a date of 65-66 AD but delivered and circulated a couple years later is not out of the question. Circulation would have been almost immediate after leaving the Island.

What I personally find is that a macro as well as micro view of prophesy is necessary to understand. Writing prophets usually stick to one task of the three. Exhortation, forthtelling, or foretelling. John does not. He engages in all three. (Unique)

Then there's the formula for future telling of near, mid, and far....humm....

GLTY.

Great so the basis for this doctrine is that this is what you want to believe. Reminds me of the book of Judges where everyone did what was right in their own eyes.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I do not have to see it, I can trust the words of Christ Jesus which are quite clear along with a bit of common sense.

Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near." - Revelation 1:1-3

And there are many more time stamps throughout the NT, in fact I doubt one can really understand the NT since Jesus and the apostles state it over and over again, what was going to happen in their lifetime.

Admittedly it can be a mystery at times.
What I learned about prophesy that often helps is one rule of interpretation.

Prophecies often have duel fulfillment.

There is normally an imminent fulfillment. We can see some of those NT warnings fulfilled already in historical accounts 70 AD . Jesus described many details in the gospels...ie Matthew 24.
At the same time He described things that could not take place solely there; nor at the time of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem. There is yet to be a worldwide tribulation and heavenly events. Jesus, the Son of man, is yet to return.

On the other hand, some pseudo christian groups tried to use different methods to reconcile the supposed "contradictions."
Some religions, falsely held to dates of the second coming, as you rightly pointed out. One example of the biggest religion I know of, has an official title for their false prophesy. If you have any 7th Day Adventist friends or family, you can ask them what they know about "The Great Disappointment." This is what happened when one guy who claimed to be a special prophet of God set a date for the Lord's return. Then the lies got bigger and more complex to deceive his followers.
It would take a while to describe their complex stories that don't explain the actual real prophecies of Jesus.

Spiritual and physical death were already examples of duel fulfillment from the first prophecy in Genesis.
From there we see many more to base our understanding of the tribulation, Lord's return/ wrath of God passages on duel fulfillment.
Even though many pastors agree with duel fulfillment, they tend to shut down and revert to their denominational background when it comes to future events like rapture and second coming of Christ.
It's our nature to be closed minded on strongly held beliefs (right or wrong.)
That goes doubley for pastors.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

What?

I'm sorry I was laughing.
I had just pictured little Gary Coleman incredulous look on his face say, "What choo talkin' bout Willis?"
😄

 

[Texasgal]

You can see heavily the influence of the service and the real world experience that allows in your analysis. My curiosity is I believe I read that you where once upon a time a squid so curious what your rate was?

Well, I’m not enlisted so the accurate word would be rank.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Tucker and Congresswoman Marjorie Greene discuss Israel lobby manipulation < of American "representatives."

Is this so Americans can be blessed by this arrangement?
What do you think about APAC influences?

 

[stilllearning]

Well, I’m not enlisted so the accurate word would be rank.

Just curious to your mos as when I read your comments seems like you have experience in the handling and dissemination of information. So reads to me like you may have come from a background of intel or public affairs or something along those lines.

 

[Eli1]

He visited other countries as Secretary of State so I am quite sure he had worldly view beyond the borders of the USA.

The first oil was drilled in Pennsylvania few years after the death of Adams.

The USA realized the importance of oil in the grand scheme of industrialization and need for the control of oil supplies.
I find it interesting that the monsters only seem to exist when they present an economic advantage for the USA and its, shall we say, its "proxy" state.

After all Biden did state the USA would have to invent an "proxy state" (my words) if it did not exist.
This is the reality of the world we live, I see no point in dressing it up to be something else.

Lady, the only thing you "see" is red.
An Empire doesn't need your approval or your childish tantrums.

 

[Eli1]

Truth.

“Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.” —Galatians 3:7

Lady, you wouldn't know truth from your elbow.
You think that the Trump assassination attempt was fake among other entertaining fringe comments you say here.
Imagine trying to talk "truth" to people with your mindset.
You're clueless.

 

[Texasgal]

Just curious to your mos as when I read your comments seems like you have experience in the handling and dissemination of information. So reads to me like you may have come from a background of intel or public affairs or something along those lines.

I don’t think I should go into details. Publicizing rank makes it’s possible to pin you down.

 

[stilllearning]

I don’t think I should go into details. Publicizing rank makes it’s possible to pin you down.

Fair enough

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I do not have to see it, I can trust the words of Christ Jesus which are quite clear along with a bit of common sense.

Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near." - Revelation 1:1-3

And there are many more time stamps throughout the NT, in fact I doubt one can really understand the NT since Jesus and the apostles state it over and over again, what was going to happen in their lifetime.

I got off on a tangent with an example of the Millerites Great Disappointment < in a previous post on false prophecies. One of the world's most common christian-like religions you'll find in many places was a false prophetess who had gone into a catatonic state and claimed to have thousands of visions including Christ's return. The founder of the religion also had visions and false prophesies. The era was known for many of the false prophesies that we find ourselves speaking against. If you want to listen to the sermon, scroll back to the very beginning since the link starts part way through. I think you'll find some good sound doctrine that most pastors choose to not discuss.

 

[JohnDB]

Iran hollers "UNCLE" and gets rid of their enriched uranium....

Winder how much deuterium and Tritium they have.


https://x.com/dogeai_gov/status/1938764801825448018

 

[HeIsHere]

Show me one scholar who says Revelation was written before 70 AD.

There is plenty of published scholarship as well a Christian scholar wrote the definitive book on the subject.

 

[HeIsHere]

I got off on a tangent with an example of the Millerites Great Disappointment < in a previous post on false prophecies. One of the world's most common christian-like religions you'll find in many places was a false prophetess who had gone into a catatonic state and claimed to have thousands of visions including Christ's return. The founder of the religion also had visions and false prophesies. The era was known for many of the false prophesies that we find ourselves speaking against. If you want to listen to the sermon, scroll back to the very beginning since the link starts part way through. I think you'll find some good sound doctrine that most pastors choose to not discuss.

Yes, I read about her years ago, back then I found it fascinating but now I find it frustrating that people fall for this nonsense I understand better how people perceive the Christian faith.

The mind is so impressionable, I guess that is way were are warned to take heed.

 

[HeIsHere]

Admittedly it can be a mystery at times.
What I learned about prophesy that often helps is one rule of interpretation.

Prophecies often have duel fulfillment.

There is normally an imminent fulfillment. We can see some of those NT warnings fulfilled already in historical accounts 70 AD . Jesus described many details in the gospels...ie Matthew 24.
At the same time He described things that could not take place solely there; nor at the time of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem. There is yet to be a worldwide tribulation and heavenly events. Jesus, the Son of man, is yet to return.

On the other hand, some pseudo christian groups tried to use different methods to reconcile the supposed "contradictions."
Some religions, falsely held to dates of the second coming, as you rightly pointed out. One example of the biggest religion I know of, has an official title for their false prophesy. If you have any 7th Day Adventist friends or family, you can ask them what they know about "The Great Disappointment." This is what happened when one guy who claimed to be a special prophet of God set a date for the Lord's return. Then the lies got bigger and more complex to deceive his followers.
It would take a while to describe their complex stories that don't explain the actual real prophecies of Jesus.

Spiritual and physical death were already examples of duel fulfillment from the first prophecy in Genesis.
From there we see many more to base our understanding of the tribulation, Lord's return/ wrath of God passages on duel fulfillment.
Even though many pastors agree with duel fulfillment, they tend to shut down and revert to their denominational background when it comes to future events like rapture and second coming of Christ.
It's our nature to be closed minded on strongly held beliefs (right or wrong.)
That goes doubley for pastors.

I think the concept of "world wide" can be debated from scripture.
I think my main concern is how a futurist eschatology has given Christians an out... it becomes "well this is God's will and nothing we can do to stop it" except for the fact it already happened and in fact it is a forced eschatology/counterfeit.

Along with the problematic beleif that there are people who are exceptional, that is just wrong according to the NT.

I guess we disagree here, that's okay, but if you look up Law of Liberty on You Tube,

( am not going to post the link, I am sparing people getting triggered, lol)

he talks about how Baptist churches have been overtaken by Calvinism and Dispensationalism in the last 50 to 100 years.

It is something to be aware of.

This was in the comments.... sad but true >>> Evangelicals have become Warvangelicals.

 

[ZNP]

There is plenty of published scholarship as well a Christian scholar wrote the definitive book on the subject.

I asked for a link from a scholarly source providing evidence that Revelation was written before 70 AD which addresses all the evidence that John was exiled to Patmos during the reign of Domitian and wrote Revelation at the end of Domitian's reign as the church father's have written. The source I was given was a complete joke. The guy said this was so because it fit with his doctrinal teaching, admitting that if it were not so it would debunk his doctrine.

 

[HeIsHere]

I asked for a link from a scholarly source providing evidence that Revelation was written before 70 AD which addresses all the evidence that John was exiled to Patmos during the reign of Domitian and wrote Revelation at the end of Domitian's reign as the church father's have written.

As in all things it is a matter of evidence, I think the evidence is more weighted in favor of the earlier writing.

You know when I started questioning the lies I had been fed and sadly accepted, about dispensationalism I took a step back and did my own research.
It really does give a strong sense of satisfaction.

 

[HeIsHere]

I think the concept of "world wide" can be debated from scripture.
I think my main concern is how a futurist eschatology has given Christians an out... it becomes "well this is God's will and nothing we can do to stop it" except for the fact it already happened and in fact it is a forced eschatology/counterfeit.

Along with the problematic beleif that there are people who are exceptional, that is just wrong according to the NT.

I guess we disagree here, that's okay, but if you look up Law of Liberty on You Tube,

( am not going to post the link, I am sparing people getting triggered, lol)

he talks about how Baptist churches have been overtaken by Calvinism and Dispensationalism in the last 50 to 100 years.

It is something to be aware of.

This was in the comments.... sad but true >>> Evangelicals have become Warvangelicals.

*belief*

 

[HeIsHere]

I asked for a link from a scholarly source providing evidence that Revelation was written before 70 AD which addresses all the evidence that John was exiled to Patmos during the reign of Domitian and wrote Revelation at the end of Domitian's reign as the church father's have written. The source I was given was a complete joke. The guy said this was so because it fit with his doctrinal teaching, admitting that if it were not so it would debunk his doctrine.

Kenneth L. Gentry makes a very good argument, I think his book is now open source so it can be found online.

I am pretty sure you will work to refute what he writes, but then that is your choice.