Israel Declares War

[Underwhosewings]

 

[HeIsHere]

Romans 11:25-27

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

Paul was writing to the believers in Rome and the surrounding area of his day, hence the title "Letter to the Romans" see that word YOU, he was writing about what was in their future but our past.

See that word Israel is was ancient Israel not present day Israel.

I really do believe Paul was not a liar.

In conclusion,
I side with truth
and not delusion!

Have a good day Mr. Gideon.

 

[Needevidence]

Israel is not a Christian nation and no one should imagine that it is. Israel exists because God willed it so. Israel is plain evidence that God can keep His promises in spite of every obstacle being placed in the way. Israel should have been stillborn. Hardly any military, an airforce of obsolete aircraft and no Navy defeated 5 invading Arab armies. As prophesied, Israel is the nation "born in one day".

Palestinians were not driven out. 20% of Israel's population is Arab. They have the same rights as any other Israeli citizen. Palestinians left at the behest of the 5 enemies of Israel. The idea was that they would return as soon as Israel was destroyed. 75 years later, Palestinians are still waiting. Why? Because God has seen to it that Israel remains a visible testimony to His power.

Romans 11:25-27

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

Does the Deliver come from Zion or come to Zion?

Isaiah 59:20-21: “The Redeemer will **come to** Zion, to those in **Jacob who repent** of their sins,” declares the LORD.

Hebrew 12:22 - But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,


If Canaan is to be given forever - what happens when Jesus comes back do Christians become Jews or Jews becoem christians?

Gen 17:8 - Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”


OR is it taken away, therefore not everlasting

Matt 21:43 - Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

[Cameron143]

My conversation with you is over.

No political resolution comes in a vaccuum, the understanding of history is essential.

That's too bad. My comments aren't against you personally, merely to inform you of another view. History has its place for understanding, but it also provides different perspectives. And it too often repeats itself; especially the negative aspects. And that's because people aren't actually interested in solving past failures, but simply bemoaning them. All you have put forth is more of the same. If this was the solution, things would have changed. Yet nothing has.
There are points in time when change is possible...points of inflection, where God allows circumstances to change. In the Bible, we see many of these as well as in history. One notable example is Esther...for such a time as this. We are in such a time. May God be pleased to raise up people of vision for our time.

 

[Adelia]

And don’t forget how Biden betrayed America by abandoning billions of dollars worth of military equipment to Muslim savages in Afghanistan,

BREAKING: The Taliban Asks Iran for Passage Across Country to Assist Hamas in Annihilation of Israel – After Joe Biden Armed Taliban with $80 Billion in US Weapons and Supplies

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/10/breaking-taliban-asks-iran-passage-israel-assist-hamas/

Over a span of 20 years, the U.S. spent more than $80 billion to train and equip military forces in Afghanistan. However, this number does not reflect the value of the equipment that was left behind after the catastrophic American withdrawal from the area. Billions of dollars worth of equipment was removed or demilitarized by the U.S. military before leaving Afghanistan. It is estimated that the total value was closer to $10 billion.

 

[Smoke]

No... to expect others to do for you what is required of you but you refuse to do.

The conversation was being against conscription was it not? Then a scenario was brought up where if there as an enemy attack, that person against conscription wanting to be defended even though he didn't have any "burden" supposedly.

If I misunderstood or misread the scenario, my apologies. I can go back and quote. Under this scenario, someone being against conscription could still demand to be defended without being a hypocrite because he/she pays taxes. Your counter was that people who don't pay taxes but still get defended... but that has nothing to do with the point I'm making. The guy still has a financial burden and has been paying into the armed services. That isn't a hypocrite.

I brought up the comparison of me personally being against social security and Medicare. I doubt it'll be there for me when I'm old enough to utilize it. So while I'm personally against these social services but I'm still paying into it and will for as long as I live/work in the US. Would I be a hypocrite for being against social security/Medicare but utilize the service when I'm old enough because I've been paying into it?

 

[Smoke]

Sure. Just convince Hamas. But that will never happen. So come up with something that works.
I don't really care about the past. I don't care about assigning blame. I only care about dealing with the here and now, and fixing the problem. A cease fire won't happen. So, do you have a solution that works, or just more useless rhetoric?
Either you want a real solution, or just a continuation of the same.

When we refuse to acknowledge the past and remedy it in present, we can't expect anything but "a continuation of the same".

 

[cv5]

Agree, absolutely it will take an act of divine deliverance from the false tenets of dispensationalism/Darbyism which denies audience relevance and the more than obvious time stamps.

Here you go....

Gen 17:7
And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Gen 17:8
And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

 

[Needevidence]

Here you go....

Gen 17:7
And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

What about when Jesus comes back will everyone be Jewish or Christian?

Matt 21:43 - Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

[Magenta]

The conversation was being against conscription was it not? Then a scenario was brought up where if there as an enemy attack, that person against conscription wanting to be defended even though he didn't have any "burden" supposedly.

If I misunderstood or misread the scenario, my apologies. I can go back and quote. Under this scenario, someone being against conscription could still demand to be defended without being a hypocrite because he/she pays taxes. Your counter was that people who don't pay taxes but still get defended... but that has nothing to do with the point I'm making. The guy still has a financial burden and has been paying into the armed services. That isn't a hypocrite.

I brought up the comparison of me personally being against social security and Medicare. I doubt it'll be there for me when I'm old enough to utilize it. So while I'm personally against these social services but I'm still paying into it and will for as long as I live/work in the US. Would I be a hypocrite for being against social security/Medicare but utilize the service when I'm old enough because I've been paying into it?

Your social services add-on has zero to do with this topic and in no way compares. The topic as you call it was simply
a question I asked, like wondering out loud, if a person against conscription would cry foul IF those defending then
refused to defend them when they refused to do their part of defending when required. All this about taxes being paid
in support etc are not part of the topic either but things you have added looking for loop holes so you can disagree.

 

[Underwhosewings]

Judges 11:23-24,27 KJV
So now the LORD God of Israel hath dispossessed the Amorites from before his people Israel, and shouldest thou possess it?

[24] Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? So whomsoever the LORD our God shall drive out from before us, them will we possess.

[27] Wherefore I have not sinned against thee, but thou doest me wrong to war against me: the LORD the Judge be judge this day between the children of Israel and the children of Ammon.

 

[cv5]

What about when Jesus comes back will everyone be Jewish or Christian?

Post SC, Jews will have already been saved. Gentiles born during the millennium will need to be saved.

The millennial reign is all about......salvation of the souls of men.
Same mandate as today. Same mandate as before the flood. Same mandate as in the OT.

Salvation.

BTW, there are no "Christians" per se after the rapture. The Church age is over.

 

[Ted01]

Here you go....

Gen 17:7
And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Gen 17:8
And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

And here you go:

Deut. 28:15-68 (ESV)

15 “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you. 16 Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock. 19 Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.

20 “The Lord will send on you curses, confusion, and frustration in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly on account of the evil of your deeds, because you have forsaken me. 21 The Lord will make the pestilence stick to you until he has consumed you off the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease and with fever, inflammation and fiery heat, and with drought[a] and with blight and with mildew. They shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And the heavens over your head shall be bronze, and the earth under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will make the rain of your land powder. From heaven dust shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

25 “The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them. And you shall be a horror to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 And your dead body shall be food for all birds of the air and for the beasts of the earth, and there shall be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, and with tumors and scabs and itch, of which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of mind, 29 and you shall grope at noonday, as the blind grope in darkness, and you shall not prosper in your ways.[b] And you shall be only oppressed and robbed continually, and there shall be no one to help you. 30 You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall ravish her. You shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it. You shall plant a vineyard, but you shall not enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox shall be slaughtered before your eyes, but you shall not eat any of it. Your donkey shall be seized before your face, but shall not be restored to you. Your sheep shall be given to your enemies, but there shall be no one to help you. 32 Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, while your eyes look on and fail with longing for them all day long, but you shall be helpless. 33 A nation that you have not known shall eat up the fruit of your ground and of all your labors, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually, 34 so that you are driven mad by the sights that your eyes see. 35 The Lord will strike you on the knees and on the legs with grievous boils of which you cannot be healed, from the sole of your foot to the crown of your head.

36 “The Lord will bring you and your king whom you set over you to a nation that neither you nor your fathers have known. And there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone. 37 And you shall become a horror, a proverb, and a byword among all the peoples where the Lord will lead you away. 38 You shall carry much seed into the field and shall gather in little, for the locust shall consume it. 39 You shall plant vineyards and dress them, but you shall neither drink of the wine nor gather the grapes, for the worm shall eat them. 40 You shall have olive trees throughout all your territory, but you shall not anoint yourself with the oil, for your olives shall drop off. 41 You shall father sons and daughters, but they shall not be yours, for they shall go into captivity. 42 The cricket[c] shall possess all your trees and the fruit of your ground. 43 The sojourner who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. 44 He shall lend to you, and you shall not lend to him. He shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

45 “All these curses shall come upon you and pursue you and overtake you till you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes that he commanded you. 46 They shall be a sign and a wonder against you and your offspring forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things, 48 therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you. 49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the end of the earth, swooping down like the eagle, a nation whose language you do not understand, 50 a hard-faced nation who shall not respect the old or show mercy to the young. 51 It shall eat the offspring of your cattle and the fruit of your ground, until you are destroyed; it also shall not leave you grain, wine, or oil, the increase of your herds or the young of your flock, until they have caused you to perish.

52 “They shall besiege you in all your towns, until your high and fortified walls, in which you trusted, come down throughout all your land. And they shall besiege you in all your towns throughout all your land, which the Lord your God has given you. 53 And you shall eat the fruit of your womb, the flesh of your sons and daughters, whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemies shall distress you. 54 The man who is the most tender and refined among you will begrudge food to his brother, to the wife he embraces,[d] and to the last of the children whom he has left, 55 so that he will not give to any of them any of the flesh of his children whom he is eating, because he has nothing else left, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemy shall distress you in all your towns. 56 The most tender and refined woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because she is so delicate and tender, will begrudge to the husband she embraces,[e] to her son and to her daughter, 57 her afterbirth that comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears, because lacking everything she will eat them secretly, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemy shall distress you in your towns.

58 “If you are not careful to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, the Lord your God, 59 then the Lord will bring on you and your offspring extraordinary afflictions, afflictions severe and lasting, and sicknesses grievous and lasting. 60 And he will bring upon you again all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. 61 Every sickness also and every affliction that is not recorded in the book of this law, the Lord will bring upon you, until you are destroyed. 62 Whereas you were as numerous as the stars of heaven, you shall be left few in number, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God. 63 And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you. And you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it.

64 “And the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known. 65 And among these nations you shall find no respite, and there shall be no resting place for the sole of your foot, but the Lord will give you there a trembling heart and failing eyes and a languishing soul. 66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you. Night and day you shall be in dread and have no assurance of your life. 67 In the morning you shall say, ‘If only it were evening!’ and at evening you shall say, ‘If only it were morning!’ because of the dread that your heart shall feel, and the sights that your eyes shall see. 68 And the Lord will bring you back in ships to Egypt, a journey that I promised that you should never make again; and there you shall offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer.”

 

[ZNP]

Your social services add-on has zero to do with this topic and in no way compares. The topic as you call it was simply
a question I asked, like wondering out loud, if a person against conscription would cry foul IF those defending then
refused to defend them when they refused to do their part of defending when required. All this about taxes being paid
in support etc are not part of the topic either but things you have added looking for loop holes so you can disagree.

In other words if you are against conscription you have no standing to expect others to volunteer to go and fight to defend you.

 

[Needevidence]

Post SC, Jews will have already been saved. Gentiles born during the millennium will need to be saved.

The millennial reign is all about......salvation of the souls of men.
Same mandate as today. Same mandate as before the flood. Same mandate as in the OT.

Salvation.

BTW, there are no "Christians" per se after the rapture. The Church age is over.

And your evidence is? & what about when Jesus speaks to the Jews and say - Matt 21:43 - Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

[Magenta]

In other words if you are against conscription you have no standing to expect others to volunteer to go and fight to defend you.

I wondered if someone against conscription would expect others to defend them when they themselves refuse to defend their country/countrymen from foreign attack. Then taxes and feminism and hypocrisy were added to the mix. LOL. I found I could not agree with there being no hypocrisy on the part of a libertarian simply because they pay taxes that support the military. My question was not about monetary support; it was whether a libertarian would expect to be defended by others when they refuse to do their part defending others.

 

[Magenta]

My conversation with you is over.

@Cameron143 do you believe them this time? I have lost track of how many times they have told you this! .

 

[cv5]

And your evidence is? & what about when Jesus speaks to the Jews and say - Matt 21:43 - Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

You fail to be able to concatenate these passages? Tragic. Glad I understand how they fit together.

 

[cv5]

And here you go:

Deut. 28:15-68 (ESV)

15 “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you. 16 Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock. 19 Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.

20 “The Lord will send on you curses, confusion, and frustration in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly on account of the evil of your deeds, because you have forsaken me. 21 The Lord will make the pestilence stick to you until he has consumed you off the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease and with fever, inflammation and fiery heat, and with drought[a] and with blight and with mildew. They shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And the heavens over your head shall be bronze, and the earth under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will make the rain of your land powder. From heaven dust shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

25 “The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them. And you shall be a horror to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 And your dead body shall be food for all birds of the air and for the beasts of the earth, and there shall be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, and with tumors and scabs and itch, of which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of mind, 29 and you shall grope at noonday, as the blind grope in darkness, and you shall not prosper in your ways.[b] And you shall be only oppressed and robbed continually, and there shall be no one to help you. 30 You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall ravish her. You shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it. You shall plant a vineyard, but you shall not enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox shall be slaughtered before your eyes, but you shall not eat any of it. Your donkey shall be seized before your face, but shall not be restored to you. Your sheep shall be given to your enemies, but there shall be no one to help you. 32 Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, while your eyes look on and fail with longing for them all day long, but you shall be helpless. 33 A nation that you have not known shall eat up the fruit of your ground and of all your labors, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually, 34 so that you are driven mad by the sights that your eyes see. 35 The Lord will strike you on the knees and on the legs with grievous boils of which you cannot be healed, from the sole of your foot to the crown of your head.

36 “The Lord will bring you and your king whom you set over you to a nation that neither you nor your fathers have known. And there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone. 37 And you shall become a horror, a proverb, and a byword among all the peoples where the Lord will lead you away. 38 You shall carry much seed into the field and shall gather in little, for the locust shall consume it. 39 You shall plant vineyards and dress them, but you shall neither drink of the wine nor gather the grapes, for the worm shall eat them. 40 You shall have olive trees throughout all your territory, but you shall not anoint yourself with the oil, for your olives shall drop off. 41 You shall father sons and daughters, but they shall not be yours, for they shall go into captivity. 42 The cricket[c] shall possess all your trees and the fruit of your ground. 43 The sojourner who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. 44 He shall lend to you, and you shall not lend to him. He shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

45 “All these curses shall come upon you and pursue you and overtake you till you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes that he commanded you. 46 They shall be a sign and a wonder against you and your offspring forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things, 48 therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you. 49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the end of the earth, swooping down like the eagle, a nation whose language you do not understand, 50 a hard-faced nation who shall not respect the old or show mercy to the young. 51 It shall eat the offspring of your cattle and the fruit of your ground, until you are destroyed; it also shall not leave you grain, wine, or oil, the increase of your herds or the young of your flock, until they have caused you to perish.

52 “They shall besiege you in all your towns, until your high and fortified walls, in which you trusted, come down throughout all your land. And they shall besiege you in all your towns throughout all your land, which the Lord your God has given you. 53 And you shall eat the fruit of your womb, the flesh of your sons and daughters, whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemies shall distress you. 54 The man who is the most tender and refined among you will begrudge food to his brother, to the wife he embraces,[d] and to the last of the children whom he has left, 55 so that he will not give to any of them any of the flesh of his children whom he is eating, because he has nothing else left, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemy shall distress you in all your towns. 56 The most tender and refined woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because she is so delicate and tender, will begrudge to the husband she embraces,[e] to her son and to her daughter, 57 her afterbirth that comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears, because lacking everything she will eat them secretly, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemy shall distress you in your towns.

58 “If you are not careful to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, the Lord your God, 59 then the Lord will bring on you and your offspring extraordinary afflictions, afflictions severe and lasting, and sicknesses grievous and lasting. 60 And he will bring upon you again all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. 61 Every sickness also and every affliction that is not recorded in the book of this law, the Lord will bring upon you, until you are destroyed. 62 Whereas you were as numerous as the stars of heaven, you shall be left few in number, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God. 63 And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you. And you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it.

64 “And the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known. 65 And among these nations you shall find no respite, and there shall be no resting place for the sole of your foot, but the Lord will give you there a trembling heart and failing eyes and a languishing soul. 66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you. Night and day you shall be in dread and have no assurance of your life. 67 In the morning you shall say, ‘If only it were evening!’ and at evening you shall say, ‘If only it were morning!’ because of the dread that your heart shall feel, and the sights that your eyes shall see. 68 And the Lord will bring you back in ships to Egypt, a journey that I promised that you should never make again; and there you shall offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer.”

A lot of words that you evidently do not understand. Tragic.
Back to the books for you!

 

[Needevidence]

You fail to be able to concatenate these passages? Tragic. Glad I understand how they fit together.

Yep, I understand you have no evidence to back up what you say, many thanks