Israel Declares War

[Smoke]

I have absolutely no idea at all whether it is justifiable or not. I am no mans judge.

You don't have to judge them. You just have to not be a coward and declare what God has declared. I'll help you out:

Commandment #6: Thou shalt NOT murder.
Commandment #8: Thou shalt NOT steal.

You probably use the same excuse about not being a judger of man when/if a homosexual person asks you if you think homosexuality is a sin. The truth is, you aren't judging anyone when you say it's a sin. God Himself said it's a sin. You're supposed to be a disciple and representative of Him... not cater to the feelings of people who do not believe as we Christians do.

 

[cv5]

You are saying you don't know if it's justifiable for Jews and/or Israelis to murder and steal homes and possessions from the Palestinians that live within Israel?

What am saying is I cannot judge whether or not these accusations you make are true. Because I am not an eyewitness to anything that is happening over there. Furthermore every man is accountable for his own sins. And God (not me) will be his Judge.

So there you have it buddy. If you so choose to continually shreik foul play in some fit of righteous indignation go right ahead. But if you want me to join in with you......you are wasting your time.

 

[cv5]

You don't have to judge them. You just have to not be a coward and declare what God has declared. I'll help you out:

Commandment #6: Thou shalt NOT murder.
Commandment #8: Thou shalt NOT steal.

You probably use the same excuse about not being a judger of man when/if a homosexual person asks you if you think homosexuality is a sin. The truth is, you aren't judging anyone when you say it's a sin. God Himself said it's a sin. You're supposed to be a disciple and representative of Him... not cater to the feelings of people who do not believe as we Christians do.

You go right ahead and keep all the commandments you can. And good luck with that. You'll end up a few fig leaves short. Trust me.

 

[Smoke]

What am saying is I cannot judge whether or not these accusations you make are true. Because I am not an eyewitness to anything that is happening over there. Furthermore every man is accountable for his own sins. And God (not me) will be his Judge.

So there you have it buddy. If you so choose to continually shreik foul play in some fit of righteous indignation go right ahead. But if you want me to join in with you......you are wasting your time.

Fine, I've posted the videos and if you refuse to watch them, then let me ask you a hypothetical question... IF it's true that Israel is murdering, displacing, and forcing Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem out of their homes so they can populate them with Israeli families, would you say it's justifiable because "God gave Israel the land"?

Even the biggest Israel apologists here acknowledge this is going on over there. They just think it's justifiable because God gave the land to Israel. Some even use the fact that neighboring Arab countries attacked Israel as reason for their terroristic behavior. Their interpretation is that their homes and possession are included with the promise land which is what I said is insanity.

 

[cv5]

Fine, I've posted the videos and if you refuse to watch them, then let me ask you a hypothetical question... IF it's true that Israel is murdering, displacing, and forcing Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem out of their homes so they can populate them with Israeli families, would you say it's justifiable because "God gave Israel the land"?

Even the biggest Israel apologists here acknowledge this is going on over there. They just think it's justifiable because God gave the land to Israel. Some even use the fact that neighboring Arab countries attacked Israel as reason for their terroristic behavior. Their interpretation is that their homes and possession are included with the promise land which is what I said is insanity.

Who made me the judge in Gaza. Or Israel? Nobody.

I have no authority, no omniscient knowledge, cannot read the thoughts or intents of the heart, therefore any opinion of mine is NOT VALID regarding this matter.

 

[Gideon300]

Wrong again, they were forced out of their homes, driven out, so yes some preferred to have a tent over their heads and left rather that live on the streets.

Says you. Funny how 2 million Arabs still live in Israel with all the rights of citizens. My research says differently. My sources include Derek Prince, who was living in Jerusalem when independence was declared. He had Israeli soldiers billeted in his home. The officer in charge told him about the miraculous victories won by the IDF, including a platoon of Egyptian soldiers surrendering to two Israelis.

 

[Gideon300]

You seem to be contradicting yourself - it’s OK for Israel to take back the land which they have had no control for centuries - why should others not get their land back - it all comes down to power / influence - British mandate and influence at the time. UN also give them the right to self-determination & the right to armed struggle against occupation - I presume you agree to that!


Ishamel - arguably he is also the seed of Abraham - so they should also be entitled to the land - if promised (albeit that’s a misreading of the text)

In principle, you are right. Mexico should immediately take back the land stolen by America, American Indians should be handed back all their lands, Canada likewise and all the other historical land grabs should be reversed. Of course, that won't happen. Neither should it. The difference is that there never has been a Palestine. Palestine was simply a province of Turkey for about 400 years and under Muslim rule before that.

Israel is a legally constituted nation. You don't have to like it, any more than you have to like Mexico being robbed of its territory. It is what it is. The original plan was for both Palestinian and Israeli states. It was the five Arab nations that refused to accept the UN's decision and declared war as the ink was drying on Israel's declaration of independence. I think it telling that no one came to Israel's aid. The rest of the world pretty much washed their hands of the situation. America at least recognised Israel and some nations, including France, gave material help. God does not need the help of men. He did what He promised in spite of man.

Ishmael was not the promised son. The land was not promised to him.

 

[Needevidence]

In principle, you are right. Mexico should immediately take back the land stolen by America, American Indians should be handed back all their lands, Canada likewise and all the other historical land grabs should be reversed. Of course, that won't happen. Neither should it. The difference is that there never has been a Palestine. Palestine was simply a province of Turkey for about 400 years and under Muslim rule before that.

Israel is a legally constituted nation. You don't have to like it, any more than you have to like Mexico being robbed of its territory. It is what it is. The original plan was for both Palestinian and Israeli states. It was the five Arab nations that refused to accept the UN's decision and declared war as the ink was drying on Israel's declaration of independence. I think it telling that no one came to Israel's aid. The rest of the world pretty much washed their hands of the situation. America at least recognised Israel and some nations, including France, gave material help. God does not need the help of men. He did what He promised in spite of man.

Ishmael was not the promised son. The land was not promised to him.

Israel was never a country, there was a nation/people called ‘Israel’

Philistines lived in the land of Canaan around 1175 BC and Palestine is mentioned in the ancient Greek in 5th century BCE. See Wikipedia ‘timeline of the name Palestine’

Either way, at best neither had a country.

UN doesn’t make it legitimate, its all to do with who holds power – so the powerful like you cited get their own way – that doesn’t justify it. UN says Israel is an apartheid state, illegally occupying territories, building settlements in land not recognised, committing genocide now but what can they do, nothing, because Ameria wont let them. America attacked Iraq even though some permanent members in the security council vetoed the invasion, yet they went ahead and done it with its UK poodle. So if they do what we want thats fine, if not we do it anyway.

What real legitimacy do they have!

Gen: says ‘thy seed’

It is also widely accepted that Genesis was written hundreds of years after Moses lived, so if the Israelites wrote it there could be bias.

Jesus said; Matt 12:34 - O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Jeremiah 8:8
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

 

[ZNP]

Massive Oil and Gas Reserves Discovered Under Gaza – Israel Grants Development Licenses

Since the war started, Israel has already awarded a dozen oil and gas exploration licenses in Palestine to six different Big Oil companies, including BP.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/massive-oil-gas-reserves-discovered-under-gaza-israel-fast-news-3fjtf

We should know by now that when both political parties in the U.S. show bipartisan support, something deeply sinister is happening behind the scenes. We should also know that when a superpower starts using human rights as a justification for their actions, there’s always an ulterior motive. Remember Saddam Hussein’s “weapons of mass destruction”?
Four years ago, the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) published a report on “the unrealized potential of Palestinian oil and gas reserves.” The report estimates these reserves could generate “hundreds of billions of dollars” for whoever develops them. It also criticizes Israel for preventing Palestinians from developing those resources as a way to alleviate their massive poverty. You can read it here.
OKDoomer reports: It just so happens that the U.S. is now proposing an international coalition of western governments to preside over Gaza once Israel pushes its 2 million inhabitants into Egypt. There’s similar plans underway for the West Bank.
Since the war started, Israel has already awarded a dozen gas exploration licenses to six different oil companies, including BP. They’re going to explore exactly where those Palestinian oil reserves are located, off the coast.
Let’s face it, this plan comes straight out of the disaster capitalism playbook, and it hits right in the middle of a global energy crisis exacerbated by war. When it comes to geopolitics, there’s no such thing as a coincidence.
It’s not just about oil and gas, either.
As Richard Medhurst explains, there’s a wide range of economic and logistical incentives for the U.S. and Israel to depopulate Gaza, including the construction of a canal alternative to the Suez, allowing them to dominate maritime trade and giving them key military advantages. The preferred canal route runs right through the middle of Gaza. They’ve been planning this project for decades, and now they have a great moral cover story. All of this looks like a repeat of the Iraq invasion, with western countries antagonizing a rogue actor until they do something that seems to warrant an extreme response.
Likewise, the war in Ukraine has nothing to do with democracy, human rights, or even Russian aggression.
It’s about natural gas.
The U.S. and Russia have been fighting for dominance of Ukraine for at least ten years. Ukraine sits on Europe’s second-largest natural gas reserve. Russia has also exported natural gas to the EU through pipelines across Ukraine. Months after Russia’s invasion, a pro-Ukrainian group sabotaged the Nord Stream pipelines that carried natural gas from Russia to Germany. Now Germany is signing 20-year deals to import liquefied natural gas from the U.S. On a side note, liquefied natural gas is “way worse than coal.”
Before all of this, Joe Biden’s son just happened to find a way onto the board at one of Ukraine’s largest natural gas companies.
Now do you get it?
Once you see the facts, you can’t deny it. Sure, you want to deny the facts. But then you look at world history. You look at U.S. history in particular. You come to understand that every single war we’ve ever fought was about resources or influence, or both. Even when there’s a human motive, it’s always the presence of resources and fossil fuels that tip superpowers over into violence. Why else would our leaders spend hundreds of billions of dollars on these wars, and literally no other human rights need, like hunger?
Freedom and democracy are always a cover story.

 

[cv5]

You seem to be contradicting yourself - it’s OK for Israel to take back the land which they have had no control for centuries - why should others not get their land back - it all comes down to power / influence - British mandate and influence at the time. UN also give them the right to self-determination & the right to armed struggle against occupation - I presume you agree to that!


Ishamel - arguably he is also the seed of Abraham - so they should also be entitled to the land - if promised (albeit that’s a misreading of the text)

Ishmael got the boot.

Gen 21:8
And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned.
Gen 21:9
And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
Gen 21:10
Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

 

[Gideon300]

Israel was never a country, there was a nation/people called ‘Israel’

Philistines lived in the land of Canaan around 1175 BC and Palestine is mentioned in the ancient Greek in 5th century BCE. See Wikipedia ‘timeline of the name Palestine’

Either way, at best neither had a country.

UN doesn’t make it legitimate, its all to do with who holds power – so the powerful like you cited get their own way – that doesn’t justify it. UN says Israel is an apartheid state, illegally occupying territories, building settlements in land not recognised, committing genocide now but what can they do, nothing, because Ameria wont let them. America attacked Iraq even though some permanent members in the security council vetoed the invasion, yet they went ahead and done it with its UK poodle. So if they do what we want thats fine, if not we do it anyway.

What real legitimacy do they have!

Gen: says ‘thy seed’

It is also widely accepted that Genesis was written hundreds of years after Moses lived, so if the Israelites wrote it there could be bias.

Jesus said; Matt 12:34 - O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Jeremiah 8:8
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

Either the word of God is true or it is not. You can't cherry pick the bits that suit you and ignore the rest. God's covenant was initially with Abraham. The covenant is in Genesis 12:2, God would make Abraham a great nation. According to the Oxford Dictionary a nation is "a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory."

God gave Abraham a land, see Genesis 17:1-8. It was the land of Canaan. It is much more territory than Israel occupies today.

If you can overcome your prejudice and doubt and unbelief, you will find the truth in God's word. Modern Israel is restored according to God's will and God's promise. It is a miracle that Israel was not still born. But God has this to say: “Before she was in labor, she gave birth; before she was in pain, she delivered a boy. Who has heard of such as this? Who has seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be delivered in an instant? Yet as soon as Zion was in labor, she gave birth to her children." (Isaiah 66:7 & 8).

 

[cv5]

Israel was never a country, there was a nation/people called ‘Israel’

Read the Bible much? Or is it more of a belief problem. I think the latter.

Anyways, God DID create the nation Israel. Eventually to be ruled over by the Greater David, Jesus Messiah Himself.

Gen 12:2
And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Gen 46:3
And he said, I am God, the God of thy father: fear not to go down into Egypt; for I will there make of thee a great nation:

2Sa 7:23
And what one nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods?

Oh and BTW, God made ISHMAEL the progenitor of a "great nation" as well. Do you only deny Jacob and yet advocate for Ishmael?

Gen 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

 

[Smoke]

Who made me the judge in Gaza. Or Israel? Nobody.

I have no authority, no omniscient knowledge, cannot read the thoughts or intents of the heart, therefore any opinion of mine is NOT VALID regarding this matter.

I said "IF" meaning it's a hypothetical given these sins are occuring.

See, you just proved my point. You're not a judge in saying murder and stealing is a sin and thus, it's NOT justifiable to murder Palestinians and steal their homes/personal possessions. God is the judge and has said these are sins. Why use such a lame excuse as saying you're not the judge when you're just repeating what God has said about murder and stealing? Is this going over your head or are you just wanting to discuss in bad faith?

 

[Smoke]

Massive Oil and Gas Reserves Discovered Under Gaza – Israel Grants Development Licenses

Since the war started, Israel has already awarded a dozen oil and gas exploration licenses in Palestine to six different Big Oil companies, including BP.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/massive-oil-gas-reserves-discovered-under-gaza-israel-fast-news-3fjtf

We should know by now that when both political parties in the U.S. show bipartisan support, something deeply sinister is happening behind the scenes. We should also know that when a superpower starts using human rights as a justification for their actions, there’s always an ulterior motive. Remember Saddam Hussein’s “weapons of mass destruction”?
Four years ago, the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) published a report on “the unrealized potential of Palestinian oil and gas reserves.” The report estimates these reserves could generate “hundreds of billions of dollars” for whoever develops them. It also criticizes Israel for preventing Palestinians from developing those resources as a way to alleviate their massive poverty. You can read it here.
OKDoomer reports: It just so happens that the U.S. is now proposing an international coalition of western governments to preside over Gaza once Israel pushes its 2 million inhabitants into Egypt. There’s similar plans underway for the West Bank.
Since the war started, Israel has already awarded a dozen gas exploration licenses to six different oil companies, including BP. They’re going to explore exactly where those Palestinian oil reserves are located, off the coast.
Let’s face it, this plan comes straight out of the disaster capitalism playbook, and it hits right in the middle of a global energy crisis exacerbated by war. When it comes to geopolitics, there’s no such thing as a coincidence.
It’s not just about oil and gas, either.
As Richard Medhurst explains, there’s a wide range of economic and logistical incentives for the U.S. and Israel to depopulate Gaza, including the construction of a canal alternative to the Suez, allowing them to dominate maritime trade and giving them key military advantages. The preferred canal route runs right through the middle of Gaza. They’ve been planning this project for decades, and now they have a great moral cover story. All of this looks like a repeat of the Iraq invasion, with western countries antagonizing a rogue actor until they do something that seems to warrant an extreme response.
Likewise, the war in Ukraine has nothing to do with democracy, human rights, or even Russian aggression.
It’s about natural gas.
The U.S. and Russia have been fighting for dominance of Ukraine for at least ten years. Ukraine sits on Europe’s second-largest natural gas reserve. Russia has also exported natural gas to the EU through pipelines across Ukraine. Months after Russia’s invasion, a pro-Ukrainian group sabotaged the Nord Stream pipelines that carried natural gas from Russia to Germany. Now Germany is signing 20-year deals to import liquefied natural gas from the U.S. On a side note, liquefied natural gas is “way worse than coal.”
Before all of this, Joe Biden’s son just happened to find a way onto the board at one of Ukraine’s largest natural gas companies.
Now do you get it?
Once you see the facts, you can’t deny it. Sure, you want to deny the facts. But then you look at world history. You look at U.S. history in particular. You come to understand that every single war we’ve ever fought was about resources or influence, or both. Even when there’s a human motive, it’s always the presence of resources and fossil fuels that tip superpowers over into violence. Why else would our leaders spend hundreds of billions of dollars on these wars, and literally no other human rights need, like hunger?
Freedom and democracy are always a cover story.

I appreciate your objectivity and posting this. You're one of the few who I may not agree with on everything, but you don't deny the historical facts or injustices to the Palestinian people.

 

[Smoke]

At least queers will not be putting their lives at risk if they go to Israel.

True, they are ONLY putting their eternal salvation at risk. You're right, how wonderful of Israel blessing LGBT like the pope.

 

[cv5]

I said "IF" meaning it's a hypothetical given these sins are occuring.

See, you just proved my point. You're not a judge in saying murder and stealing is a sin and thus, it's NOT justifiable to murder Palestinians and steal their homes/personal possessions. God is the judge and has said these are sins. Why use such a lame excuse as saying you're not the judge when you're just repeating what God has said about murder and stealing? Is this going over your head or are you just wanting to discuss in bad faith?

Wrong. Again.

Each individual who transgresses will be judged by God. Each man is guilty of his own sin.
THEREFORE each INDIVIDUAL case must be adjudicated on the basis of its own evidence.

I do not possess this evidence. Neither am I a witness.

Therefore I CANNOT MAKE A VALID JUDGEMENT...! I am useless in that regard.

However Jesus, the Great Rememberer, Omniscient God, Who sees ALL and knows ALL, even the intent of the heart, can Himself ONLY BE THE ONE TO JUDGE.

Jhn 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:27
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

But hey.....if you want to barge into the Trinity and take over that job.....knock yourself out man.

 

[Smoke]

Wrong. Again.

Each individual who transgresses will be judged by God. Each man is guilty of his own sin.
THEREFORE each INDIVIDUAL case must be adjudicated on the basis of its own evidence.

I do not possess this evidence. Neither am I a witness.

Therefore I CANNOT MAKE A VALID JUDGEMENT...! I am useless in that regard.

However Jesus, the Great Rememberer, Omniscient God, Who sees ALL and knows ALL, even the intent of the heart, can Himself ONLY BE THE ONE TO JUDGE.

Jhn 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:27
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

But hey.....if you want to barge into the Trinity and take over that job.....knock yourself out man.

You clearly don't know what a hypothetical scenario is. I provided the given and yet you keep playing dumb. Do you know what a hypothetical scenario is?

"I do not possess this evidence"... I provided you a scenario where we assume certain points. If you need me to DM you what this is, let me know.

 

[Smoke]

Wrong again, they were forced out of their homes, driven out, so yes some preferred to have a tent over their heads and left rather that live on the streets.

It's just as ignorant as telling holocaust survivors that the holocaust was all fake.

There are living Jews alive today who testify they were given the homes of Palestinians that were forcibly kicked out. One in particular wrote about his extreme guilt he experienced growing up because of that. I'm sure @Gideon300 would either call the Jewish man a liar and/or a "self-hating Jew". He might have us believe they volunteered to be murdered too.

 

[cv5]

You clearly don't know what a hypothetical scenario is. I provided the given and yet you keep playing dumb. Do you know what a hypothetical scenario is?

"I do not possess this evidence"... I provided you a scenario where we assume certain points. If you need me to DM you what this is, let me know.

Oh and another thing:

God allots both Ishmael and all other peoples land and a nation. But you say Israel will never obtain THEIR allotted inheritance, and this by explicit covenant?

Act 17:26
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

What I think is that you, @HeIsHere , @tobewholeagain and @Moses_Young are fostering extreme prejudice against a peculiar people and nation more so than any other.

 

[cv5]

You clearly don't know what a hypothetical scenario is. I provided the given and yet you keep playing dumb. Do you know what a hypothetical scenario is?

"I do not possess this evidence"... I provided you a scenario where we assume certain points. If you need me to DM you what this is, let me know.

You can hypothetically think you are The Judge all day long friend. No skin off my nose.