Israel Declares War

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ZNP

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Before... there was a big Zionist push for an Israeli nation in the 1920's (before to, just not well structured - but they did get the Balfour Declaration). Anyway it grew in the 30's, and boomed at the conclusion of WWII.
The Palestine Mandate of 1922 that went into effect in 1923 gave a portion of the land to Israel and in 1948 the UN voted to allow the Jews to move to Israel and form a nation.
 

Magenta

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The neighbors are not all hateful, that is untrue, and the tensions in the area are tied to larger geopolitical issues.
Who said they were all hateful? That just looks like something you read into what was said, though it was not there.
 

Cameron143

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The neighbors are not all hateful, that is untrue, and the tensions in the area are tied to larger geopolitical issues.
I didn't say they were all hateful. And geopolitical issues do come into play.
 

Ted01

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There is no nation called Palistine. So who's land was taken?
I think that idea is misguided. Like it or not, Hadrian coined the term and named the region Palestine... as a snub... but he did have authority to do that. The Ottomans (Turks) kinda' let it live on... and they ruled the region from around the 14th century.
 

HeIsHere

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The Palestine Mandate of 1922 that went into effect in 1923 gave a portion of the land to Israel and in 1948 the UN voted to allow the Jews to move to Israel and form a nation.
Yeah and Britain made false assurances along the way to both sides so let's not make it so cut and dry.
 

HeIsHere

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Ted01

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Those are written into Islam's so-called "holy" books.
Yeah, you're right.
Look, I'm not pro-Palestine, and certainly anti-Islam... but I try to look at these things from a more historical approach.
I have no idea about eschatology and want whatever God wants. Historically, Israel has come through some things that I can't explain without considering God's hand in it.
Still, from a humanitarian point of view... Israel has been pretty ugly in the past and the two things leave me conflicted.
 

Ted01

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The Palestine Mandate of 1922 that went into effect in 1923 gave a portion of the land to Israel and in 1948 the UN voted to allow the Jews to move to Israel and form a nation.
Okay... how much land did each allow for?
 

ZNP

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Yeah and Britain made false assurances along the way to both sides so let's not make it so cut and dry.
My point is that it is not cut and dry and showing statistics from 2008 is misleading as there was a whole lot of history that is relevant from 1923 on.
 

Ted01

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I think that idea is misguided. Like it or not, Hadrian coined the term and named the region Palestine... as a snub... but he did have authority to do that. The Ottomans (Turks) kinda' let it live on... and they ruled the region from around the 14th century.
I should add to this... the Ottoman Empire was defeated in WWI by Britain mostly... but they got help by the local Arabs with the promise to give them land/nation for their help.
Then Britain changed their mind and went for building Israel instead... after they defeated the Ottomans.
 

Ted01

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My point is that it is not cut and dry and showing statistics from 2008 is misleading as there was a whole lot of history that is relevant from 1923 on.
Earlier than that... see post #730.
 

ZNP

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Okay... how much land did each allow for?
It was a two state solution, but from 1948 on their have been terrorist attacks from each other trying to drive each other from the land. Meanwhile there has been a worldwide emigration to Israel of Jews from around the world and they outnumber Palestinians 4:1 to it is unreasonable to assume they should have the same amount of land. Israel has also turned many areas that were uninhabited into a garden (Negev Desert) so there is that as well.

They did seize the Golan Heights but that was after Syria tried to wipe them out using the heights to shoot down on them from. They seized this not just for self defence but because 30% of their watershed is based on control of those heights and to protect their water supply they need that. National boundaries are supposed to make sense, giving an enemy that tried to wipe you out control of your water supply does not make sense.
 

ZNP

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I should add to this... the Ottoman Empire was defeated in WWI by Britain mostly... but they got help by the local Arabs with the promise to give them land/nation for their help.
Then Britain changed their mind and went for building Israel instead... after they defeated the Ottomans.
You should also add that Turkey is aligned with Israel's enemies because they would like to have control of Israel again.
 

Ted01

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It was a two state solution, but from 1948 on their have been terrorist attacks from each other trying to drive each other from the land. Meanwhile there has been a worldwide emigration to Israel of Jews from around the world and they outnumber Palestinians 4:1 to it is unreasonable to assume they should have the same amount of land. Israel has also turned many areas that were uninhabited into a garden (Negev Desert) so there is that as well.

They did seize the Golan Heights but that was after Syria tried to wipe them out using the heights to shoot down on them from. They seized this not just for self defence but because 30% of their watershed is based on control of those heights and to protect their water supply they need that. National boundaries are supposed to make sense, giving an enemy that tried to wipe you out control of your water supply does not make sense.
I couldn't disagree with any of this, even if I wanted to... which I don't.

But can you, for a moment, try to think of the Palestinian perspective?

They were promised a nation for helping in the overthrow of the Ottomans.
They were denied the promise in favor of growing sentiment for a nation for Israel... prompted in large part to "Darbyism".
Further treated poorly by Zionists to the point that they battled both Zionists and the British.
Further mistreated when Israel defied the UN's plan by taking more land than was allocated by force, and forcibly removing the Palestinians.

And ever since 1948 Israel continues to take more land... most through winning battles against it... and they've pushed the Palestinians into the West Bank, Golan Heights, and Gaza.
 

Ted01

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You should also add that Turkey is aligned with Israel's enemies because they would like to have control of Israel again.
Yeah, I agree that Turkey is anti-Israel/pro- Palestine... I'd tend to think that they do this because of their Islamic bend and their weirdly aggressive peoples... throughout history, anyway.
 

Ted01

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As far as I am concerned you can go back to King David and Goliath.
I think that too far.

I used to think that there was a Philistine connection too. Hadrian supposedly thought this too.
But I've come to believe that the Philistines were long dead and absorbed into other tribes long ago... including the Samaritans and Eudaemons (Herod's people prophesied to die out).
 

ZNP

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I couldn't disagree with any of this, even if I wanted to... which I don't.

But can you, for a moment, try to think of the Palestinian perspective?

They were promised a nation for helping in the overthrow of the Ottomans.
They were denied the promise in favor of growing sentiment for a nation for Israel... prompted in large part to "Darbyism".
Further treated poorly by Zionists to the point that they battled both Zionists and the British.
Further mistreated when Israel defied the UN's plan by taking more land than was allocated by force, and forcibly removing the Palestinians.

And ever since 1948 Israel continues to take more land... most through winning battles against it... and they've pushed the Palestinians into the West Bank, Golan Heights, and Gaza.
The Palestinian perspective is my perspective. I was a wild olive tree and I was grafted into the olive tree. I do not support the tree, but rather the tree and root support me. If the Palestinians embraced this attitude they could have and would have been grafted into Israel, but they rejected it. Obviously, that does not refer to all Palestinians as there are some who are Pastors and preachers and have been saved. So instead they have taken the approach that Gamaliel warned against saying "if this is of man it will fall apart, but if it is of God you cannot fight it otherwise you will find yourself fighting with God".

My advice to the Palestinians, be humbled under the mighty hand of God.
 

ZNP

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I personally think this war is a warning to Christians, I was taught that Gaza, the land that the Philistines lived in, represented "halfway Christians" in type. Meaning they were halfway between Israel and Egypt (the world).

So I believe we are about to see not only the rapture but also the complete annihilation of the apostate church.