New Zealand spy agency caught using NSA surveillance tools for political purposes

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p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#2
Sep 4, 2013
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The most surprising and disturbing thing about this is that New Zealand ACTUALLY HAS a SPY AGENCY.........seriously?

Other than Australia, they are like a zillion miles from ANYWERE, who they got to spy on? Unless 'dem trouble making Ausies like Tintin are plotting an invasion..........Hmm,
 
Chainhand

Chainhand

Senior Member
#3
Jun 1, 2013
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#3
Every Democratically elected government has an excellent motive to spy on their own citizens.
 
Chainhand

Chainhand

Senior Member
#5
Jun 1, 2013
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#5
p_rehbein said:
The most surprising and disturbing thing about this is that New Zealand ACTUALLY HAS a SPY AGENCY.........seriously?
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I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not... New Zealand has had a communications spying agency since 1977.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#6
Sep 4, 2013
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Chainhand said:
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not... New Zealand has had a communications spying agency since 1977.
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Initially, my comment was 1/2 sarcasm and 1/2 serious. It's not like New Zealand is in imminent danger of invasion is it? Or, are you privy to some secret intelligence of an evil plot that would suggest such?

1) Spy Agencies, such as the CIA, NSA, NIA are usually established to spy on Foreign Governments/Militaries, not citizens. That is far more akin to a Secret Police than a Spy Agency.

2) You are a young man from America are you not? Why, at your age, all this concern about New Zealand?

3) Now, I will say, in all honesty, this comment of yours is very disturbing in so very many ways:

Every Democratically elected government has an excellent motive to spy on their own citizens.

If YOU are being serious, oh goodness................
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#7
Jan 25, 2015
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#7
p_rehbein said:
Initially, my comment was 1/2 sarcasm and 1/2 serious. It's not like New Zealand is in imminent danger of invasion is it? Or, are you privy to some secret intelligence of an evil plot that would suggest such?
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The only invasion that New Zealand (and Aussie) should worry about is from illegal Chinese and other Eastern Countries.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#8
Sep 4, 2013
30,213
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#8
GandalfTheWhite said:
The only invasion that New Zealand (and Aussie) should worry about is from illegal Chinese and other Eastern Countries.
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So, they aren't any better that the US when it comes to protecting their borders from the invasion of illegal aliens? Still, they need a Spy Agency to do that?

:)

I think they ought to keep an eye on Tintin and his clan............they may have nefarious plots 'n' plans in the works.
 
Chainhand

Chainhand

Senior Member
#9
Jun 1, 2013
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#9
p_rehbein said:
1) Spy Agencies, such as the CIA, NSA, NIA are usually established to spy on Foreign Governments/Militaries, not citizens. That is far more akin to a Secret Police than a Spy Agency.
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They are established to spy, yes. The NSA's internal documents reveal the agency's stated goal is to "Collect it all", and "Exploit it all". If you care to thumb through the raw leaked documents yourself and see the activities, terms and phrases they use when referring to citizens, I would love to hear your conclusions about what they are doing.

But, for the record, you used the term "secret police", not me. :)


p_rehbein said:
2) You are a young man from America are you not? Why, at your age, all this concern about New Zealand?
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I am, but don't take my word for it, people don't always mean what they say. I am interested in world events, and I like reading history and learning from past mistakes. Also my taxes helped pay for the surveillance tool in the article, which New Zealand is abusing.

p_rehbein said:
3) Now, I will say, in all honesty, this comment of yours is very disturbing in so very many ways:

Every Democratically elected government has an excellent motive to spy on their own citizens.

If YOU are being serious, oh goodness................
Click to expand...
Please don't allow me to disturb you.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#10
Sep 4, 2013
30,213
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#10
Chainhand said:
They are established to spy, yes. The NSA's internal documents reveal the agency's stated goal is to "Collect it all", and "Exploit it all". If you care to thumb through the raw leaked documents yourself and see the activities, terms and phrases they use when referring to citizens, I would love to hear your conclusions about what they are doing.

But, for the record, you used the term "secret police", not me. :)




I am, but don't take my word for it, people don't always mean what they say. I am interested in world events, and I like reading history and learning from past mistakes. Also my taxes helped pay for the surveillance tool in the article, which New Zealand is abusing.



Please don't allow me to disturb you.
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To late on that "disturbing me" thingy :) Are you looking at your comments? In your first statement here, you seem to be unhappy with what these folks from New Zealand are doing with spying on their own peoples, yet you make the statement that they "have an excellent motive" to do such as this. So I am confused as to whether you approve of their "spying" or disapproving of it. Glad you like to study History, and learn from it, there is a wealth of information to be gleaned from the pages of History.

Now, concerning "disturbing." Your comment appears to be one "approving" of the US Government having "an excellent motive to spy" on it's citizens. If so, then, yes, you are invoking the mental image of "secret police." And that should be disturbing to all Americans.............or New Zealanders for that matter. If you actually believe the US Government should be spying on it's citizens, then you may not have learned as much from History as you should have.
 
Chainhand

Chainhand

Senior Member
#11
Jun 1, 2013
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OK, I get where you are coming from.

I said excellent motive rather than excellent reason, no, I definitely do not approve of domestic spying.

I think we are on the same page.

A commenter in another thread said that the whistleblowers needed to be jailed before anyone else could be pursued and implied that no laws had been broken yet by the NSA.

So when you said that the most interesting thing about the article was that New Zealand has a spy agency, I thought you were being dismissive of the article.
 
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