Pope Francis to Christians: Our common Baptism unites us

[calibob]

I will put for this for you to consider: God has always urged us to establish our core beliefs and doctrine on the word of two or three witnesses. Scripture references:

John 8:17 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."

Matt. 18:16 "But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established."

2 Cor. 13:1 "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

We know, or at least suspect, the early church messed with a lot of scripture. Adding, subtracting and changing things to fit their agenda. I believe that was the antichrist movement working against us. Matt. 28:19 was one instance of Jesus mentioning baptizing this way. What if He did not say that? What is the name of the Holy Spirit? Do you know?

All I know, as I pointed out in my testimony, that God had me go back to the church He let me join to seek re-baptism. He pointed out that they failed to take authority in the name of Jesus. By taking the name of Jesus, they are acting as the proxy of Jesus. We need to understand that fact before baptizing anyone in water. This obviously means something to God.

Jesus never physically baptized anyone, didn't even seem to promote it during His ministry. Since His ascension, He distributes the HS to believers. Jesus even submitted to water baptism to set an example. Water baptism points to the real baptism of the HS. The Apostles even did it during their ministry.

I take the less that popular stance that Baptism by emersion, should be voluntary by and for adults, in public. After we have reached the age of accountability. Childhood dedications are also an outward sign that we have dedicated our children to the Lord like circumcision used to mean. I strongly believe that in such cases people should be re-baptized just as you did Deade. I shows we have rejected sin as our bodies reject the water (or else they would dissolve) and our sins are washed away.

I'm sure Deade knows where Colorado Lagoon in Naples Ca. is.
We had an outdoor service, a group Baptism and a picnic. Followed by a sing-a-long and Volleyball game. We had a blessed day and did some witnessing and answered some questions too. We didn't wear robes or goofy hats. The men wore cut offs and t shirts. The ladies dressed about the same with bathing suit tops beneath. California Casual yet respectable.

 

[Wansvic]

It is true that one has a choice. One can follow man, or one can follow Christ. It is clearly recorded, and there is no doubt what Christ commanded about how to baptize individuals.

People simply have to choose.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Scriptures regarding Jesus' name:

“I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.” John 5:43 (Father)

“O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.” John 17:25-26

“And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.” Colossians 3:17 (Son)

“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26 (Holy Ghost)

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12

 

[Waggles]

Christians are baptized by the Spirit..

NO - Christians are commanded to be baptized in water and in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rasputin_OZ]

What is the name of the Holy Spirit? Do you know?

Good question

only name all three have ever been known as is Eloheem.

Jehovah Father.
Jesus son

So what is Holy Spirit name

 

[Waggles]

We know, or at least suspect, the early church messed with a lot of scripture. Adding, subtracting and changing things to fit their agenda. I believe that was the antichrist movement working against us. Matt. 28:19 was one instance of Jesus mentioning baptizing this way. What if He did not say that? What is the name of the Holy Spirit? Do you know?

What are you saying here, Deade?? That the scriptures are unreliable. Can't believe what you read?
Mark 16:15-20 is not true !!
Ivan Panin who applied Bible Numerics [what Jewish scholars call gematria] to the New Testament Greek (the mathematical seal
of God to his word) confirms the authenticity of Mathew 28:19

And in hundreds of gifts of prophecy that I have heard spoken to us by God never never ever have I heard God correct us on the
incorrect application of Matthew 28:19.
We baptized as per scripture and we confess our faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour.
Seems OK with God our Father.

 

[Rasputin_OZ]

Acts 2:38 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Rasputin_OZ]

What are you saying here, Deade?? That the scriptures are unreliable. Can't believe what you read?
.

some people to choose to only believe the scriptures that agree with their doctrine and how they see God.

 

[Deade]

What are you saying here, Deade?? That the scriptures are unreliable. Can't believe what you read?
Mark 16:15-20 is not true !!
Ivan Panin who applied Bible Numerics [what Jewish scholars call gematria] to the New Testament Greek (the mathematical seal
of God to his word) confirms the authenticity of Mathew 28:19

And in hundreds of gifts of prophecy that I have heard spoken to us by God never never ever have I heard God correct us on the
incorrect application of Matthew 28:19.
We baptized as per scripture and we confess our faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour.
Seems OK with God our Father.

What I say is that scripture has been messed with. If you don't believe that compare the following:

KJV: 1 John 5:6-8 "This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

ESV: 1 John 5:6-8 "This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree."

There are other modern translations that keep this scripture to the original without trying to read in doctrine. If you think KJV or any translation is perfect, you are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Rasputin_OZ]

What does the Tindale bible say for those verses.

What does the Bishop bible say.

 

[p_rehbein]

Whatever , do not attack me for misreading what you said.

Too touchy.......wasn't attacking.........just clarifying.........

 

[p_rehbein]

The word establishes that water baptisms were done in Jesus' name. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul)
Interestingly, not one record of the use of the titles.

The Word establishes what Christ said. As I stated earlier, people can choose. To follow man or to follow Christ.

I personally don't think it matters either way, as long as one is baptized. As I stated in my first comment here, it is true that not ALL people are baptized "in the name of Jesus." Many, many are baptized as Christ stated in Matthew. That was the only point. Folks just get carried away trying to be right about stuff I guess, and don't properly read comments, or don't understand them.

Still, for me, my family, and my Church, we baptized as Christ said to. It's not like someone will go to hell if they are baptized different than someone else.

 

[Waggles]

There are other modern translations that keep this scripture to the original without trying to read in doctrine. If you think KJV or any translation is perfect, you are in for a rude awakening.

You strongly implied that the original Greek texts were messed with and adulterated.
Thus, Ivan Panin when translating the Greek text noticed the variations to the placement of wording in the texts.
He knew of the arithmetic values given to the Greek alphabet and discovered [similar to the Jewish scholars for the Hebrew texts]
that the word of God was sealed by consistent arithmetical values for each word, placement of words, and verses.
Thus Ivan Panin is able to prove the validity of the original texts for Mark 16:15-20.
In Panin's Numeric English New Testament 1John 5:7 is omitted and also in my copy of the ESV it also is omitted.
The original texts are God given and reliable for all doctrine and teaching.

But I noticed you did not answer me on my sharing of what God has to say to us through the gift of prophecy.
Never ever, no not once, has God the Father spoken to us on the need to correct what we say when we water baptise people.
We operate the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit decently and in order and God truly speaks to us - again we have never been corrected
by God to amend our baptism rites.
So I am free to believe that HQ does not have a problem.

 

[Deade]

Never ever, no not once, has God the Father spoken to us on the need to correct what we say when we water baptise people.

So, you are telling me that wasn't God directing me to seek for re-baptism. Do your people take take authority in the name of Jesus or do they Father-Son-Holy Ghost?

 

[Waggles]

So, you are telling me that wasn't God directing me to seek for re-baptism. Do your people take take authority in the name of Jesus or do they Father-Son-Holy Ghost?

what God said to you is between God and you.
What God says to me in my church is between God and us.
I cast no aspersions on anybody else's directions given to them by God.
I only share what God does not say in to us in the gift of prophecy in our church.

 

[Adstar]

NO - Christians are commanded to be baptized in water and in the Holy Spirit.

No.. Christians are not commanded to be baptized in water.. John the baptist even declared that the Baptism of Jesus would not be a water baptism and so it came true on the day of Pentecost.. Have a read of the Gospel and believe it Waggles..

 

[Deade]

what God said to you is between God and you.
What God says to me in my church is between God and us.
I cast no aspersions on anybody else's directions given to them by God.
I only share what God does not say in to us in the gift of prophecy in our church.

That has always been my contention as God deals with each one of us in His own way. That is why I don't speculate on the likes of WOF ministers. I did that once and the HS told me to stop. I figured God could be working, with them, in a different way. All I know is how God deals with me and I share that.

Matt. 10:27 "What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops."

 

[Waggles]

No.. Christians are not commanded to be baptized in water.

You are just plain wrong.

 

[Wansvic]

The Word establishes what Christ said. As I stated earlier, people can choose. To follow man or to follow Christ.

I personally don't think it matters either way, as long as one is baptized. As I stated in my first comment here, it is true that not ALL people are baptized "in the name of Jesus." Many, many are baptized as Christ stated in Matthew. That was the only point. Folks just get carried away trying to be right about stuff I guess, and don't properly read comments, or don't understand them.

Still, for me, my family, and my Church, we baptized as Christ said to. It's not like someone will go to hell if they are baptized different than someone else.

I share this information because I truly believe that what is recorded in the bible is there for a reason. The desire I have is to be obedient to God's word and share it in hopes of helping others.

Many churches do baptize using the titles. My earlier point is that this is not the way the apostles and early church performed baptisms. The scripture you quote in Matt 28:19 specifies the use of a singular name: baptizing in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. What is the name?

I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. However, after seeing that the name of Jesus was used exclusively in every instance in the word I was re-baptized in the name of Jesus. Paul expressed the need for Ephesus disciples to be baptized in the name of Jesus. (Acts 19:1-6) Evidently there is importance in the way one is water baptized.

 

[Wansvic]

No.. Christians are not commanded to be baptized in water.. John the baptist even declared that the Baptism of Jesus would not be a water baptism and so it came true on the day of Pentecost.. Have a read of the Gospel and believe it Waggles..

You do realize that water baptism along with the infilling of the Holy Ghost is consistently referenced. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul, 8:35-40 Eunuch, 16:28-33 Jailer and family) Also, Paul referred to water baptism in his epistles and was still commanding it be done 25 years after the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 19:1-6)

 

[dcontroversal]

FALSE..............end of story!