Pope Proclaims Antichrist

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M

MarkMulder

Guest
#1
" [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition;
[SUP] 4 [/SUP]Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God."

[2 Thessalonians 2: 3-4]


[video=youtube;6Jc61xBfcGI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jc61xBfcGI[/video]
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
#2
" [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition;
[SUP] 4 [/SUP]Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God."

[2 Thessalonians 2: 3-4]
You are aware that what they are saying is this

May the Morning Star which never sets
find this flame still burning:
Christ, that Morning Star,
who came back from the dead,

and shed his peaceful light on all mankind,
your Son, who lives and reigns for ever and ever.

Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat:
ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum,
Christus Filius tuus qui,
regressus ab inferis,
humano generi serenus illuxit,
et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum.

Somehow I don't think Satan came back from the dead.
:rolleyes:
 
K

kenthomas27

Guest
#3
SaraM777 is right. Lucifer was mentioned ONCE in the bible in Isaiah 14:12 and referred to as the morning star or Venus and by the way, the word lucifer is Greek so a little bit of something got lost in KJV translation to begin with.

Now if you're reading Paradise Lost and watching Entertainment Tonight, the video made sense.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#4
Yeah lucifer doesn't actually stand for Satan...it literally just means morning star/light bringer. If you want to be technical the line in Isaiah 14 isn't even about Satan, but is about a babylonian king, whose name wqas just similar and thus when the biblw was translated from the original hebrew around 400 ad, his name be came Lucifer in latin and then since the kjv writers didnt use the original languages instread working from mostly translations its continued.

nice try though.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#5
The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell?
The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."
Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King").
The scholars authorized by ... King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated ... largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and --- ironically --- the Prince of Darkness.
So "Lucifer" is nothing more than an ancient Latin name for the morning star, the bringer of light. That can be confusing for Christians who identify Christ himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
 
M

MarkMulder

Guest
#6
You are aware that what they are saying is this

May the Morning Star which never sets
find this flame still burning:
Christ, that Morning Star,
who came back from the dead,

and shed his peaceful light on all mankind,
your Son, who lives and reigns for ever and ever.

Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat:
ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum,
Christus Filius tuus qui,
regressus ab inferis,
humano generi serenus illuxit,
et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum.
Do you even understand the Latin? Your translation is highly interpretative:
it doesn't say that Lucifer rose from the dead.
How about this text:

[SUP]"12 [/SUP]How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

[Isaiah 14:12]

Somehow I don't think Christ can be Lucifer,
because then it would be Him who weakened the nations
and was cut down for it. :rolleyes:




 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
#7
Do you even understand the Latin? Your translation is highly interpretative:
it doesn't say that Lucifer rose from the dead.
How about this text:

[SUP]"12 [/SUP]How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

[Isaiah 14:12]

Somehow I don't think Christ can be Lucifer,
because then it would be Him who weakened the nations
and was cut down for it. :rolleyes:





No but that is what THE PEOPLE IN THE VIDEO ARE SAYING that the cantor is saying something else, :rolleyes:

By way the whole thing is translated as such

Exult, let them exult, the hosts of heaven,
exult, let Angel ministers of God exult,
let the trumpet of salvation
sound aloud our mighty King's triumph!

Be glad, let earth be glad, as glory floods her,
ablaze with light from her eternal King,
let all corners of the earth be glad,
knowing an end to gloom and darkness.

Rejoice, let Mother Church also rejoice,
arrayed with the lightning of his glory,
let this holy building shake with joy,
filled with the mighty voices of the peoples.

(Therefore, dearest friends,
standing in the awesome glory of this holy light,
invoke with me, I ask you,
the mercy of God almighty,
that he, who has been pleased to number me,
though unworthy, among the Levites,
may pour into me his light unshadowed,
that I may sing this candle's perfect praises).

(Deacon: The Lord be with you.
People: And with your spirit.)
Deacon: Lift up your hearts.
People: We lift them up to the Lord.
Deacon: Let us give thanks to the Lord our God.
People: It is right and just.

It is truly right and just,
with ardent love of mind and heart
and with devoted service of our voice,
to acclaim our God invisible, the almighty Father,
and Jesus Christ, our Lord, his Son, his Only Begotten.

Who for our sake paid Adam's debt to the eternal Father,
and, pouring out his own dear Blood,
wiped clean the record of our ancient sinfulness.

These, then, are the feasts of Passover,
in which is slain the Lamb, the one true Lamb,
whose Blood anoints the doorposts of believers.

This is the night,
when once you led our forebears, Israel's children,
from slavery in Egypt
and made them pass dry-shod through the Red Sea.

This is the night
that with a pillar of fire
banished the darkness of sin.

This is the night
that even now throughout the world,
sets Christian believers apart from worldly vices
and from the gloom of sin,
leading them to grace
and joining them to his holy ones.

This is the night
when Christ broke the prison-bars of death
and rose victorious from the underworld.

Our birth would have been no gain,
had we not been redeemed.
O wonder of your humble care for us!
O love, O charity beyond all telling,
to ransom a slave you gave away your Son!

O truly necessary sin of Adam,
destroyed completely by the Death of Christ!

O happy fault
that earned for us so great, so glorious a Redeemer!

O truly blessed night,
worthy alone to know the time and hour
when Christ rose from the underworld!

This is the night
of which it is written:
The night shall be as bright as day,
dazzling is the night for me, and full of gladness.

The sanctifying power of this night
dispels wickedness, washes faults away,
restores innocence to the fallen, and joy to mourners,
drives out hatred, fosters concord, and brings down the mighty.

On this, your night of grace, O holy Father,
accept this candle, a solemn offering,
the work of bees and of your servants' hands,
an evening sacrifice of praise,
this gift from your most holy Church.

But now we know the praises of this pillar,
a flame divided but undimmed,
which glowing fire ignites for God's honour,
a fire into many flames divided,
yet never dimmed by sharing of its light,
for it is fed by melting wax,
drawn out by mother bees
to build a torch so precious.

O truly blessed night,
when things of heaven are wed to those of earth,
and divine to the human.

Therefore, O Lord,
we pray you that this candle,
hallowed to the honour of your name,
may persevere undimmed,
to overcome the darkness of this night.
Receive it as a pleasing fragrance,
and let it mingle with the lights of heaven.
May this flame be found still burning
by the Morning Star:
the one Morning Star who never sets,
Christ your Son,
who, coming back from death's domain,
has shed his peaceful light on humanity,
and lives and reigns for ever and ever.
Amen.

Exsultet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check it out that is NOT the only place where it is translated as such.
 
M

MarkMulder

Guest
#8
No but that is what THE PEOPLE IN THE VIDEO ARE SAYING that the cantor is saying something else, :rolleyes:

By way the whole thing is translated as such...

Check it out that is NOT the only place where it is translated as such.
Lol, and who do you think made those "translations?"
I went to a catholic school where they taught me Latin,
so I know full well what they're ACTUALLY trying to say. Again:

"Let no man deceive you by any means..."

[2 Thessalonians 2:3]

 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#9
Either you ignored it or failed to read it but your argument falls apart with a little research...

. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."
Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn."
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
589
113
#10
Just a bit of info that you need to consider, Christ is called "the day star" in 2Peter 1v19, translated in the Greek as "phospheros" and in the Latin Vulgate as "lucifer"...

In Isaiah 14v12, the Devil (before) his fall is referred to as "lucifer" (KJV), which the Greek Septuagint translate as "phospheros" and the Latin Vulgate as "lucifer", the Hebrew is "heylel"

To try and say that the Pope is claiming to be the Antichrist is tripe!

Get a life young sir! :p
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#11
Mark, :cool:
Still taking selfies? Just a new camera?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#12
Actually the old testament was translated from Hebrew, and the new testament was translated from Greek. The Apocrypha books were translated from Greek and Latin which these books were not accepted in the bible do to issues that arose from them.


Yeah lucifer doesn't actually stand for Satan...it literally just means morning star/light bringer. If you want to be technical the line in Isaiah 14 isn't even about Satan, but is about a babylonian king, whose name wqas just similar and thus when the biblw was translated from the original hebrew around 400 ad, his name be came Lucifer in latin and then since the kjv writers didnt use the original languages instread working from mostly translations its continued.

nice try though.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#13
yes hebrew into latin which is why it goes from Helal to Lucifer...
 
Mar 21, 2011
1,515
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#14
What's this thread about? More lying? More bearing false witness against your neighbour?

Can we have 1 day, when the 10 commandments aren't thrown out the window in order to falsely accuse someone of being the Anti-Christ?