The collapse of America
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Hi @Cameron143
Sure, and that's really what I thought you were likely seeking when you first asked, but I was wary of your methods. Other than how James says it, I've always considered 'true' religion to be loving God with all of our being. To sing with joy and thanksgiving the praises of His awesome power, wisdom and love. And to strive to live as He asks His children to live. To honor His word as the truth that it is... in all things that it speaks of.
The Scriptures declare that the heavens declare the glory of God. I believe that!! I believe that 10,000 years ago there was nothing that existed in all of this realm in which we live. No planets, stars, galaxies, asteroids, comets or space dust. Then in a span of 6 rotations of the new planet that God spoke into existence as the very first physical form in all of the universe that we see and can't see, He created a place for a creature that He would create to live in the realm of His creating. Now, I only say that because I believe that that's the belief of all born again believers who practice 'true' religion.
The ones who are indwelled with God's Holy Spirit to guide them and teach them in all sin and righteousness. The Holy Spirit indwelling someone, who enlightens the understanding of God's testimony to us.
Sure, and that's really what I thought you were likely seeking when you first asked, but I was wary of your methods. Other than how James says it, I've always considered 'true' religion to be loving God with all of our being. To sing with joy and thanksgiving the praises of His awesome power, wisdom and love. And to strive to live as He asks His children to live. To honor His word as the truth that it is... in all things that it speaks of.
The Scriptures declare that the heavens declare the glory of God. I believe that!! I believe that 10,000 years ago there was nothing that existed in all of this realm in which we live. No planets, stars, galaxies, asteroids, comets or space dust. Then in a span of 6 rotations of the new planet that God spoke into existence as the very first physical form in all of the universe that we see and can't see, He created a place for a creature that He would create to live in the realm of His creating. Now, I only say that because I believe that that's the belief of all born again believers who practice 'true' religion.
The ones who are indwelled with God's Holy Spirit to guide them and teach them in all sin and righteousness. The Holy Spirit indwelling someone, who enlightens the understanding of God's testimony to us.
James was on to something. True religion is the practice of caring for the weakest and most helpless among us. In his day, that was orphans and widows. In our day, it is the unborn.
In the OT, God is continually chiding His people because they draw near to Him with their lips when their hearts remain far from Him. They enjoyed the outward pretense and show of religious exercise, but never actually connected this with the unburdening of others burdens. They were fine afflicting themselves so long as there was no real cost involved.
I say all this because of your nonchalant attitude towards abortion. In the US alone, over 60 million babies have been aborted. If an authoritarian leader had killed this many of his own people, we would label it genocide. We would assign them an ignomanious place in history. It's little wonder then that God has left this nation in such a perilous condition.
Maybe now abortion won't just seem wrong to you.
In the OT, God is continually chiding His people because they draw near to Him with their lips when their hearts remain far from Him. They enjoyed the outward pretense and show of religious exercise, but never actually connected this with the unburdening of others burdens. They were fine afflicting themselves so long as there was no real cost involved.
I say all this because of your nonchalant attitude towards abortion. In the US alone, over 60 million babies have been aborted. If an authoritarian leader had killed this many of his own people, we would label it genocide. We would assign them an ignomanious place in history. It's little wonder then that God has left this nation in such a perilous condition.
Maybe now abortion won't just seem wrong to you.
If you look at many cults they do not take care of widows and orphans, all the money goes to the cult leader. However, they are separate and "unspotted by the world". On the other hand there are many denominations that have soup kitchens and do charitable work but their members have season tickets to football games, belong to the country club and are "spotted by the world".
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Morning @Cameron143
I believe that aborting a pregnancy is killing a viable human being. Because of that, I wouldn't expect any born again believer to seek one or to put themselves in a position where they might need to seek one. But we're talking about the world here and the way that people will go in it. According to the Scriptures, all that we're seeing 'out there in the world' is exactly what God has warned us that we will be seeing. Yet, God's word doesn't encourage us to go out there and stop the world from sinning. God's word encourages us to have mercy and compassion on them, just as His Son did. Remember the part that we are to grow to be more like him, the Son? Did Jesus ever say to his followers, "Now, go out there and condemn the world for their sinful ways."
I believe that God asks us not to concern ourselves so much with the sinful, unrighteous things that the world does, but to show mercy and compassion on them and teach them about His salvation. That if we can show a sinner God's salvation, and they accept it, then we have won a heart for Jesus. And, I believe that's done better on a closer, more intimate relationship with a sinner, than creating headlines for the news media. Just railing at some group that they're sinning and to stop it doesn't do that.
So yes, I believe abortion is a sinful practice, but I know that as far as the overall world, that's what we should expect. From what I have gleaned from the Scriptures, as far as how believers are supposed to interact with the unbelieving majority of the world, we are to remain separated from them and their practices. That we should take every opportunity to calmly and rationally spread before their eyes and ears the message that God has for them. I just don't find any example in the Scriptures where it might be construed that God asks His children to go fight against sin in the world.
He tells us not to be a part of it and He tells us to share the love of His Son, Jesus with them. As far as a future child and human being not getting to live a life on the earth because their parent removed them from the womb, I'm going to leave that up to God. That will be His decision as to what to do with that now dead person.
What do you think? Are children automatically saved? Are they going to be with God when they are born, but then one day some sin separates them from Him and then they have to find their way back through Jesus? I'm willing to let God be God in the matter, but I'm wholly convicted that our assignment as His children is not to rail against the world and its sinful practices, but to tell the world about the mercy, grace, compassion and love that He has shown us through the giving of His Son for our sin.
So again, for me, whether or not abortions are legal isn't the issue. The issue is whether or not someone finds themselves in a position to need one and what that individual will do about it. For those people out there in the world who are considering such an action, rather than condemnation, God asks us to show love and compassion and tell them about His Son. That's how I see how the issue should be handled. I'm confident that there is no hope shown through the Scriptures that God's children are ever going to change the ways of the sinful world that surrounds us. But we can make a difference in the life of an individual who is practicing unrighteousness, if we can bring them to Jesus.
God bless you,
Ted
I believe that aborting a pregnancy is killing a viable human being. Because of that, I wouldn't expect any born again believer to seek one or to put themselves in a position where they might need to seek one. But we're talking about the world here and the way that people will go in it. According to the Scriptures, all that we're seeing 'out there in the world' is exactly what God has warned us that we will be seeing. Yet, God's word doesn't encourage us to go out there and stop the world from sinning. God's word encourages us to have mercy and compassion on them, just as His Son did. Remember the part that we are to grow to be more like him, the Son? Did Jesus ever say to his followers, "Now, go out there and condemn the world for their sinful ways."
I believe that God asks us not to concern ourselves so much with the sinful, unrighteous things that the world does, but to show mercy and compassion on them and teach them about His salvation. That if we can show a sinner God's salvation, and they accept it, then we have won a heart for Jesus. And, I believe that's done better on a closer, more intimate relationship with a sinner, than creating headlines for the news media. Just railing at some group that they're sinning and to stop it doesn't do that.
So yes, I believe abortion is a sinful practice, but I know that as far as the overall world, that's what we should expect. From what I have gleaned from the Scriptures, as far as how believers are supposed to interact with the unbelieving majority of the world, we are to remain separated from them and their practices. That we should take every opportunity to calmly and rationally spread before their eyes and ears the message that God has for them. I just don't find any example in the Scriptures where it might be construed that God asks His children to go fight against sin in the world.
He tells us not to be a part of it and He tells us to share the love of His Son, Jesus with them. As far as a future child and human being not getting to live a life on the earth because their parent removed them from the womb, I'm going to leave that up to God. That will be His decision as to what to do with that now dead person.
What do you think? Are children automatically saved? Are they going to be with God when they are born, but then one day some sin separates them from Him and then they have to find their way back through Jesus? I'm willing to let God be God in the matter, but I'm wholly convicted that our assignment as His children is not to rail against the world and its sinful practices, but to tell the world about the mercy, grace, compassion and love that He has shown us through the giving of His Son for our sin.
So again, for me, whether or not abortions are legal isn't the issue. The issue is whether or not someone finds themselves in a position to need one and what that individual will do about it. For those people out there in the world who are considering such an action, rather than condemnation, God asks us to show love and compassion and tell them about His Son. That's how I see how the issue should be handled. I'm confident that there is no hope shown through the Scriptures that God's children are ever going to change the ways of the sinful world that surrounds us. But we can make a difference in the life of an individual who is practicing unrighteousness, if we can bring them to Jesus.
God bless you,
Ted
I never said confront the world. More unborn babies are saved by pregnant women seeing their child while undergoing an ultrasound procedure than any other means. Setting up clinics and providing health-care saves lives.
There are many other ways to loosen bands and break bonds that hold people captive. Christians should be more creative.
Your premise that we are not to engage the world is in error. We are called to be salt and light. Do you put your candle under a bushel? Neither does Christ. In fact, we are told to let our light so shine that our works are so noticed that it leads to God being glorified.
The reason I brought up true religion is that true religion makes a difference in the lives of people. God calls us to help the most vulnerable amongst us. We aren't to go after the oppressors but relieve the oppressed. When we do this, don't worry, the oppressors will find us. By loving them, through us God will either deliver them or pour coals upon them. But God's people are called engage humanity.
There are many other ways to loosen bands and break bonds that hold people captive. Christians should be more creative.
Your premise that we are not to engage the world is in error. We are called to be salt and light. Do you put your candle under a bushel? Neither does Christ. In fact, we are told to let our light so shine that our works are so noticed that it leads to God being glorified.
The reason I brought up true religion is that true religion makes a difference in the lives of people. God calls us to help the most vulnerable amongst us. We aren't to go after the oppressors but relieve the oppressed. When we do this, don't worry, the oppressors will find us. By loving them, through us God will either deliver them or pour coals upon them. But God's people are called engage humanity.
Hi again @Cameron143
Right. And in much of my discussion here I'm not making comments concerning the thread discussion that are supposed to be taken as being made about you personally. I'm speaking in general terms of what I see happening within the believing community over the sin and unrighteousness that is swallowing up the people living in the world today. So please understand that many comments aren't to be taken personally that I'm saying that 'you' are like these descriptions that I give.
This is a forum where people discuss their thoughts and ideas. This particular thread is discussing the collapse of America. What I see across America is that the body of believers get themselves tied up in loud proclamations of condemnation for the sin that the world is practicing. And while I agree with the 'sin that the world is practicing part', I think that God asks His children to be like His Son. To understand that what we're seeing overall concerning the direction of the world, is exactly how the Scriptures describe to us the direction of the world. To understand that what we're seeing is a body of people who, just as in Jesus' day, are like sheep without a shepherd.
The world is full of people who refuse to honor God with their lives and how they live. Rather, they are constantly seeking to satisfy the lusts of their flesh; the desires of their eyes; the tickling of their ears. And this is exactly what the Scriptures tell us that the plight of man, overall, will be and has always been. But as we invent more ways to do evil, abortions, bombs, guns, great sexual immorality and disgusting practices of sexual deviances, the world, according to the Scriptures, is just going to get worse and worse.
As I think I explained before on this thread, but if not I'll repeat it, what I see in the Scriptures is that there will come a point that there is no longer anyone seeking after God; there is no longer a valuable number of people choosing to live a life of righteousness, according to God's instructions to us in living such lives. That a great time of tribulation of the saints will come to pass and at some point in that God is going to stand up and command His Son, "Son, go get my children!" At that point, this realm of creation will come to an end as we know it.
Jesus will come per his Father's command and standing among the clouds call for those who are righteous in his Father's sight, both living and the dead, and we will be raised from this earth to meet him in the clouds and taken to be safe with God. While God will then release His long pent-up wrath that He has held at bay through these days of His patience. Then will be the time that mankind attempts to hide among the rocks and crevices mourning that the day of God's wrath has come upon them. And it will be a terrible time for the unrighteous after the believers are taken out of harm's way. That day will come. God's word tells us that it will and I therefore believe that it will.
But today, as we live in this world, God asks us to not be a part of the wickedness and unrighteousness as far as practicing such things in our own personal lives. God asks us to show the same mercy and compassion on the lost that He is now showing them. God asks us to do what we can to proclaim the gospel of salvation for man that is available through His Son, Jesus. That's what I believe the assigned task of every believer is.
And let me be the first to agree that it's not something that I am able to practice in every moment of my life. But I know that it is what God asks of me. To be filled with mercy and compassion for the lost, just as His Son was. To do whatever I can do that is within my realm of influence to tell others about the love that God has shown all of us, through His Son.
And yes, we are called to be salt and light. We are to sprinkle the people of the earth with the knowledge of Jesus and who he is and we are to shine his light through us... to them. But as Jesus also said, his first work, and the light that we should be shining is that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save the world. That's the passage that few seem to continue reading after John 3:16.
God bless you,
Ted
Right. And in much of my discussion here I'm not making comments concerning the thread discussion that are supposed to be taken as being made about you personally. I'm speaking in general terms of what I see happening within the believing community over the sin and unrighteousness that is swallowing up the people living in the world today. So please understand that many comments aren't to be taken personally that I'm saying that 'you' are like these descriptions that I give.
This is a forum where people discuss their thoughts and ideas. This particular thread is discussing the collapse of America. What I see across America is that the body of believers get themselves tied up in loud proclamations of condemnation for the sin that the world is practicing. And while I agree with the 'sin that the world is practicing part', I think that God asks His children to be like His Son. To understand that what we're seeing overall concerning the direction of the world, is exactly how the Scriptures describe to us the direction of the world. To understand that what we're seeing is a body of people who, just as in Jesus' day, are like sheep without a shepherd.
The world is full of people who refuse to honor God with their lives and how they live. Rather, they are constantly seeking to satisfy the lusts of their flesh; the desires of their eyes; the tickling of their ears. And this is exactly what the Scriptures tell us that the plight of man, overall, will be and has always been. But as we invent more ways to do evil, abortions, bombs, guns, great sexual immorality and disgusting practices of sexual deviances, the world, according to the Scriptures, is just going to get worse and worse.
As I think I explained before on this thread, but if not I'll repeat it, what I see in the Scriptures is that there will come a point that there is no longer anyone seeking after God; there is no longer a valuable number of people choosing to live a life of righteousness, according to God's instructions to us in living such lives. That a great time of tribulation of the saints will come to pass and at some point in that God is going to stand up and command His Son, "Son, go get my children!" At that point, this realm of creation will come to an end as we know it.
Jesus will come per his Father's command and standing among the clouds call for those who are righteous in his Father's sight, both living and the dead, and we will be raised from this earth to meet him in the clouds and taken to be safe with God. While God will then release His long pent-up wrath that He has held at bay through these days of His patience. Then will be the time that mankind attempts to hide among the rocks and crevices mourning that the day of God's wrath has come upon them. And it will be a terrible time for the unrighteous after the believers are taken out of harm's way. That day will come. God's word tells us that it will and I therefore believe that it will.
But today, as we live in this world, God asks us to not be a part of the wickedness and unrighteousness as far as practicing such things in our own personal lives. God asks us to show the same mercy and compassion on the lost that He is now showing them. God asks us to do what we can to proclaim the gospel of salvation for man that is available through His Son, Jesus. That's what I believe the assigned task of every believer is.
And let me be the first to agree that it's not something that I am able to practice in every moment of my life. But I know that it is what God asks of me. To be filled with mercy and compassion for the lost, just as His Son was. To do whatever I can do that is within my realm of influence to tell others about the love that God has shown all of us, through His Son.
And yes, we are called to be salt and light. We are to sprinkle the people of the earth with the knowledge of Jesus and who he is and we are to shine his light through us... to them. But as Jesus also said, his first work, and the light that we should be shining is that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save the world. That's the passage that few seem to continue reading after John 3:16.
God bless you,
Ted
If God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, then if we're going to be like him, we aren't supposed to be condemning the world either. Leave that for God. He's got this. We believers need to be about the work that God has prepared for us to do since before the foundations of the world were set in place. To show God's love and mercy and compassion to all. To treat them as we would also like to be treated. To show them the way of peace.
And, as Jesus instructed each one of us. After we show them the way of peace, if they will accept it, then baptize them. Then begin teaching them to obey all that he has commanded us. Now, I consider that pronoun 'us' to be referring to believers. Jesus isn't telling the lost to go out and spread the good news of God's salvation. Jesus is asking those who have believed to go out and spread the good news of God's salvation.
And, as I have said many times here, if we do it the way that Jesus instructs us to do it, then for those who will accept the truth, that person will gain the indwelling Holy Spirit to then begin to convict them of sin and righteousness along with our efforts to teach them all the commands of Jesus and how righteous those commands are. Try doing it God's way.
Let the world go the way it's going to go. We can certainly pray for the world and our leaders to make godly decisions, but I believe the real work that God has prepared for His children is that we be an extension of His love to them.
Ted
And, as Jesus instructed each one of us. After we show them the way of peace, if they will accept it, then baptize them. Then begin teaching them to obey all that he has commanded us. Now, I consider that pronoun 'us' to be referring to believers. Jesus isn't telling the lost to go out and spread the good news of God's salvation. Jesus is asking those who have believed to go out and spread the good news of God's salvation.
And, as I have said many times here, if we do it the way that Jesus instructs us to do it, then for those who will accept the truth, that person will gain the indwelling Holy Spirit to then begin to convict them of sin and righteousness along with our efforts to teach them all the commands of Jesus and how righteous those commands are. Try doing it God's way.
Let the world go the way it's going to go. We can certainly pray for the world and our leaders to make godly decisions, but I believe the real work that God has prepared for His children is that we be an extension of His love to them.
Ted
Sounds like platitudes. So here is some shocking news for you -- the world is corrupting Christendom. According to you we should simply stand by and do nothing.
Daily Wire Reporter Megan Basham’s New Book, ‘Shepherds For Sale,’ Climbs Bestseller List After Release
Daily Wire Reporter Megan Basham’s New Book, ‘Shepherds For Sale,’ Climbs Bestseller List After Release
In “Shepherds for Sale: How Evangelical Leaders Traded the Truth for a Leftist Agenda,”
Basham “documents how progressive powerbrokers — from George Soros, to the founder of eBay, to former members of the Obama administration — set out to change the American church. Their goal: to co-opt evangelicals for political purposes.”
The book also documents how a megachurch pastor pushed fellow pastors to move their views on sexuality to the Left and how leftist talking points on climate change and “systemic racism” have crept into American churches.
Daily Wire Reporter Megan Basham’s New Book, ‘Shepherds For Sale,’ Climbs Bestseller List After Release
Daily Wire Reporter Megan Basham’s New Book, ‘Shepherds For Sale,’ Climbs Bestseller List After Release
In “Shepherds for Sale: How Evangelical Leaders Traded the Truth for a Leftist Agenda,”
Basham “documents how progressive powerbrokers — from George Soros, to the founder of eBay, to former members of the Obama administration — set out to change the American church. Their goal: to co-opt evangelicals for political purposes.”
The book also documents how a megachurch pastor pushed fellow pastors to move their views on sexuality to the Left and how leftist talking points on climate change and “systemic racism” have crept into American churches.
Hi @Nehemiah6
Uhhhh, no. The world was always foretold to be corrupt and 'Christendom" has always been warned to stay apart from such corruption. Friend, that's what the whole issue with temptation is all about for christians. We have times when we want what the world's got. That's a part of the 'persevering to the end' that Jesus spoke of. It's literally the account of the sower of the seed that lands on the ground where the desires of this world pull them away from their faith. And yes, Jesus said it would be so.
Uhhhh, no. The world was always foretold to be corrupt and 'Christendom" has always been warned to stay apart from such corruption. Friend, that's what the whole issue with temptation is all about for christians. We have times when we want what the world's got. That's a part of the 'persevering to the end' that Jesus spoke of. It's literally the account of the sower of the seed that lands on the ground where the desires of this world pull them away from their faith. And yes, Jesus said it would be so.
10 We are fools for Christ’s sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye have glory, but we have dishonor. 11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwelling-place; 12 and we toil, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we endure; 13 being defamed, we entreat: we are made as the filth of the world, the offscouring of all things, even until now.
This is where the rubber meets the road. Those worshiping the god of this world are "wise", they are "strong", they don't hunger or thirst, they are not naked, they wear expensive suits. They live in nice mansions, they don't have to support their ministry, they are not defamed, and they walk among the beautiful people. If you are following Jesus you will be on the same road that Paul and the apostles walked, it should be obvious that these Freemasons and Mega church pastors are on a very different road.
This is where the rubber meets the road. Those worshiping the god of this world are "wise", they are "strong", they don't hunger or thirst, they are not naked, they wear expensive suits. They live in nice mansions, they don't have to support their ministry, they are not defamed, and they walk among the beautiful people. If you are following Jesus you will be on the same road that Paul and the apostles walked, it should be obvious that these Freemasons and Mega church pastors are on a very different road.
Hi @Nehemiah6
Sure we can and should. But as God tells us to do it. Our conversations should be sprinkled with salt. We should not speak unkindly of someone. We certainly shouldn't hate, and while you likely tell yourself in your heart that you aren't 'hating' the person that you're referring to, you are certainly showing an unkind and disrespectful attitude towards someone just by making fun of their name. You honestly believe in your heart that Jesus could just as like have said to Nicodemus, "...well listen hear Mr. Nikadumbas", that his Father would have approved? Really?
Aren't you commissioned to strive to live as Jesus lived? Aren't you?
Look, we all fail from time to time. I've made disrespectful comments towards people in my lifetime, but when someone has ever called me on it, I know I'm in the wrong and shouldn't be displaying such behavior AND telling people I represent Jesus.
If you have an issue with someone's policies, practices or lifestyle, I believe a real born again believer would be able to just address the issue without all of the nasty name calling. You see, to me, that's a part of the world that we aren't to be a part of.
And let me finish by saying that not all of this complaint is against you personally.
God bless you,
Ted
Sure we can and should. But as God tells us to do it. Our conversations should be sprinkled with salt. We should not speak unkindly of someone. We certainly shouldn't hate, and while you likely tell yourself in your heart that you aren't 'hating' the person that you're referring to, you are certainly showing an unkind and disrespectful attitude towards someone just by making fun of their name. You honestly believe in your heart that Jesus could just as like have said to Nicodemus, "...well listen hear Mr. Nikadumbas", that his Father would have approved? Really?
Aren't you commissioned to strive to live as Jesus lived? Aren't you?
Look, we all fail from time to time. I've made disrespectful comments towards people in my lifetime, but when someone has ever called me on it, I know I'm in the wrong and shouldn't be displaying such behavior AND telling people I represent Jesus.
If you have an issue with someone's policies, practices or lifestyle, I believe a real born again believer would be able to just address the issue without all of the nasty name calling. You see, to me, that's a part of the world that we aren't to be a part of.
And let me finish by saying that not all of this complaint is against you personally.
God bless you,
Ted