The Shortage, Are You Preparing?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,903
5,634
113
Lots of people will fake things like this just to get people to view their videos and generate income for themselves. There are also many videos on utube showing how these things are faked.

Just remember if it seems to good to be true it probably is.
Here is the question I have, we need a battery to store energy from solar and wind. Why don't they use this power for electrolysis, splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,857
1,565
113
lol, give me just a good old bees wax candle and a camp fire who needs the stuff from Babylon...
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,633
7,664
113
He has allowed us to use the energy He put into the creation of His atomic particles nuclear power generation, perhaps releasing the hydrogen he bound together with oxygen can be a part of His kindness to us as well, I recall some experiments with fuel cells that used ethanol from corn rather that burning it for power which was inefficient, using the hydrogen in the fuel cell and getting away from an internal combustion engine tripled the efficiency.
 

Handyman62

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2021
593
263
63
Rural South Carolina
Here is the question I have, we need a battery to store energy from solar and wind. Why don't they use this power for electrolysis, splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen?
You can certainly make hydrogen & oxygen from solar and as shittim brought up hydrogen can be used in fuel cells. But fuel cells as far as I know were only commercially produced for large scale applications.

Years ago fuel cells looked pretty promising and in fact can be designed to use pretty much any combustible fuel. Fuel cells could have been used in cars by this time but the sticking point was always in how to make it safe for cars to drive around with such highly volatile hydrogen fuel plus having to build new fueling stations.

That was a bogus excuse since fuel cells can use gasoline and no need for new filling stations either. If cleaner air had actually been the goal then fuel cells would now be common place.

For those who are enterprising enough I remember that you could download plans for building a fuel cell
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,903
5,634
113
You can certainly make hydrogen & oxygen from solar and as shittim brought up hydrogen can be used in fuel cells. But fuel cells as far as I know were only commercially produced for large scale applications.

Years ago fuel cells looked pretty promising and in fact can be designed to use pretty much any combustible fuel. Fuel cells could have been used in cars by this time but the sticking point was always in how to make it safe for cars to drive around with such highly volatile hydrogen fuel plus having to build new fueling stations.

That was a bogus excuse since fuel cells can use gasoline and no need for new filling stations either. If cleaner air had actually been the goal then fuel cells would now be common place.

For those who are enterprising enough I remember that you could download plans for building a fuel cell
I looked into this, electrolysis is less efficient than batteries. However they are doing research on making hydrocarbons from renewable energy.

Apparently it is very tough and expensive to store hydrogen.
 

Handyman62

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2021
593
263
63
Rural South Carolina
I looked into this, electrolysis is less efficient than batteries. However they are doing research on making hydrocarbons from renewable energy.

Apparently it is very tough and expensive to store hydrogen.
There's no getting around that generating and storing electricity no matter how you do it is expensive. My system cost me 12 grand and at what my local electric company currently charges it will take 10 years to break even if none of my equipment needs to be replaced before then.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,857
1,565
113
That's the issue with the electric cars,lawn mowers and trimmers in that at first they "appear to be green" because the owners are separated from the pollution and cant see it in their yard when they plug them in. Their plugged into this way away from us so we cant see it https://blog.arcadia.com/15-key-facts-statistics-power-plant-pollution/ and we outsource the manufacturing of Solar panels to China so we get a green solar panel but the Chinese created as much pollution making it as it will save. "Out of sight,Out of mind"...
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,903
5,634
113
That's the issue with the electric cars,lawn mowers and trimmers in that at first they "appear to be green" because the owners are separated from the pollution and cant see it in their yard when they plug them in. Their plugged into this way away from us so we cant see it https://blog.arcadia.com/15-key-facts-statistics-power-plant-pollution/ and we outsource the manufacturing of Solar panels to China so we get a green solar panel but the Chinese created as much pollution making it as it will save. "Out of sight,Out of mind"...
The big problem with electric vehicles is that it takes 3-4 hours to recharge them. That is a big problem for someone on a road trip. The obvious solution is to go back to what we did with horses. You would ride a horse for a day. Then switch out the horse for the next days ride. Already Tesla is talking about having recharge stations be "diners" where you stop to eat while the car is being recharged.

However, there is probably only one solution, either you swap out your batteries for those that are charged or you swap cars. The whole "you will own nothing and be happy". If I rent a car from "Hertz" I drive 8 hours to a diner. At the diner my car is swapped for another car. I'm only renting 1 car, it is just that it gets swapped repeatedly as I drive cross country. When you rent the car Hertz could have an algorithm. You say what your itinerary is and the AI plots the points where you would swap cars.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,857
1,565
113
The big problem with electric vehicles is that it takes 3-4 hours to recharge them. That is a big problem for someone on a road trip. The obvious solution is to go back to what we did with horses. You would ride a horse for a day. Then switch out the horse for the next days ride. Already Tesla is talking about having recharge stations be "diners" where you stop to eat while the car is being recharged.

However, there is probably only one solution, either you swap out your batteries for those that are charged or you swap cars. The whole "you will own nothing and be happy". If I rent a car from "Hertz" I drive 8 hours to a diner. At the diner my car is swapped for another car. I'm only renting 1 car, it is just that it gets swapped repeatedly as I drive cross country. When you rent the car Hertz could have an algorithm. You say what your itinerary is and the AI plots the points where you would swap cars.

Yes and in the end if China(or anyone else) manufactured the tires,plastics formed the glass heated and shaped the metals ect. and then you have to charge it up then it was no more green than anything else in the end. Don't get me wrong though I would rather be as clean/green as any, there just not as green as they appear. It's like as long as we can charge our laptops and phones we think it's green/clean because were separated from the places that make the electricity or other parts and so we don't see it when it's still there.

For instance using compost or potting soil in bags. Take a bag and dump it into a wheelbarrow and sift through it. You'll find small pieces of plastic,glass ect. Things like small pieces of lumber there's no telling what will be in each bag. We bag our trash and each week the big trash truck comes and picks it up and when the back gets full they compact it all together. And so all of the diapers,the lithium ion batteries, the oil from an oil change,old medicine ect. squishes out and soaks into everything in the back of the garbage truck.

When it gets full they go to a reclamation center and dump it out and it's sorted through. The aluminum in one pile, plastic in another and organic stuff in another. The batteries in another and steel in another ect.ect. and then they go to who recycles them. The organic matter that has all of those spooky liquids that came squishing out of the diapers,batteries and such are composted and we(I don't) then sprinkle it back into all the yards across the US. Mmmm,, good organic,home grown tomatoes anyone?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,903
5,634
113
Yes and in the end if China(or anyone else) manufactured the tires,plastics formed the glass heated and shaped the metals ect. and then you have to charge it up then it was no more green than anything else in the end. Don't get me wrong though I would rather be as clean/green as any, there just not as green as they appear. It's like as long as we can charge our laptops and phones we think it's green/clean because were separated from the places that make the electricity or other parts and so we don't see it when it's still there.

For instance using compost or potting soil in bags. Take a bag and dump it into a wheelbarrow and sift through it. You'll find small pieces of plastic,glass ect. Things like small pieces of lumber there's no telling what will be in each bag. We bag our trash and each week the big trash truck comes and picks it up and when the back gets full they compact it all together. And so all of the diapers,the lithium ion batteries, the oil from an oil change,old medicine ect. squishes out and soaks into everything in the back of the garbage truck.

When it gets full they go to a reclamation center and dump it out and it's sorted through. The aluminum in one pile, plastic in another and organic stuff in another. The batteries in another and steel in another ect.ect. and then they go to who recycles them. The organic matter that has all of those spooky liquids that came squishing out of the diapers,batteries and such are composted and we(I don't) then sprinkle it back into all the yards across the US. Mmmm,, good organic, home grown tomatoes anyone?
There are two problems with recycling: transportation cost and sorting costs. If you had a dumpster filled with aluminum cans it would be very economic to recycle them. Same is true of plastic, paper, glass and organic waste. You need 4 dumpsters. This could be done easily and practically for an apartment building. It could also be done practically for a farm. But it is not practical for the suburbs. For example, Larchmont, NY is a a wealthy suburb, they have 1.1 square miles of land and 5,864 people. That means you could have 10 complexes of 2,700,000 square feet each. Each complex of 600 people each would have room for a ten acre park, swimming pool, gym, a large community center, and apartments that are 2,000 square feet for families. I would recommend this complex be 5 stories high. It would be about 80-100,000 square feet not counting the amenities. So let's say 200,000 square feet counting your amenities. That leaves 2 million square feet for parks for each 600 people. On each floor in the hallway you have five slots where you can dump glass, paper, aluminum, plastic or organic. These chutes go down to the basement and fill up dumpsters. The Super is responsible for switching out dumpsters when they are full. Garbage trucks come by and pick them up. This could be done digitally, when a dumpster is full and is moved it alerts the waste management in the city that you have a full dumpster of glass, or paper, or whatever. Each complex could turn their organic waste into mulch for their parks. The Super would dump that each day and then cover with dirt. That would be about a quarter of a mile from the complex. Pick up of the renewables would be free as the value of the waste would pay for the pick up. If the recycling plant is centrally located in the town it is no more than half a mile from any complex. It would take them 5 minutes to pick up a dumpster filled with glass or aluminum or paper or plastic.

Several take aways -- recycling is only feasible if you plan for it when you build your community and if you have a reasonable population density. If you do those two things you can recycle all of your waste economically and efficiently. It saves resources, cuts the costs of waste management, and saves energy.

You will never have a successful recycling program if people are living in single dwelling homes in the suburbs.

This would however work on a farm as they would want to turn all their organics to mulch and probably wouldn't mind have a few dumpsters they fill up with Glass, paper, etc. Farmers have equipment where they could easily haul a dumpster filled with aluminum off to a recycling center that is five miles away. If they had a machine to crush the cans and glass you might take a year to fill up a dumpster. So once a year they go off to a site that handles 100 square mile area. Also, the farmer gets paid by the pound for the aluminum, glass, plastic and paper.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,628
2,212
113
You can certainly make hydrogen & oxygen from solar and as shittim brought up hydrogen can be used in fuel cells. But fuel cells as far as I know were only commercially produced for large scale applications.

Years ago fuel cells looked pretty promising and in fact can be designed to use pretty much any combustible fuel. Fuel cells could have been used in cars by this time but the sticking point was always in how to make it safe for cars to drive around with such highly volatile hydrogen fuel plus having to build new fueling stations.

That was a bogus excuse since fuel cells can use gasoline and no need for new filling stations either. If cleaner air had actually been the goal then fuel cells would now be common place.

For those who are enterprising enough I remember that you could download plans for building a fuel cell
Actually GM was working towards fuel cell cars and going to produce them. This is why gas stations started carrying pure ethanol as a fuel. The problem being that petroleum is pumped out of the ground and contaminants in the gasoline that otherwise will burn off will destroy the platinum laced fuel cell over time. Ethanol being used will allow the hydrogen conversion in fuel cells to last much longer and not degrade. Platinum is the key element here and the planet doesn't quite have enough being mined to go around. GM is also heavily invested in platinum mining because of this. They already were for the catalytic converters...

But all came to a halt for some reason...now the push is for stored electricity in vehicles and charging stations...which is a stop gap measure and a lousy one at that.

Ethanol is made in America from corn but the largest volumes globally are currently made in India and Brazil from sugar.

Fuel cell systems work and are safe enough to use regularly. Anybody can make a still and distill their own Ethanol. (If you can stand the smell)

The newer battery technology and electric motor technology which Elon Musk had pioneered with his team of engineers at Tesla motors will go a long way to help make these cars even better than ever.

But the main problem with most EVs to date is the lack of electricity generation....they must be capable of generating power or during disasters we are going to be in worse trouble. Electric grids go down during hurricanes...no one can charge a car. Things like this are major issues.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,628
2,212
113
And even if we stopped using so much gasoline for vehicles...we can't stop using petroleum products.

Petroleum is what makes so much today....from vitamins to fertilizers....products to packaging. Roads and tires...paint and keyboards. We aren't giving up these things anytime soon.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,903
5,634
113
Actually GM was working towards fuel cell cars and going to produce them. This is why gas stations started carrying pure ethanol as a fuel. The problem being that petroleum is pumped out of the ground and contaminants in the gasoline that otherwise will burn off will destroy the platinum laced fuel cell over time. Ethanol being used will allow the hydrogen conversion in fuel cells to last much longer and not degrade. Platinum is the key element here and the planet doesn't quite have enough being mined to go around. GM is also heavily invested in platinum mining because of this. They already were for the catalytic converters...

But all came to a halt for some reason...now the push is for stored electricity in vehicles and charging stations...which is a stop gap measure and a lousy one at that.

Ethanol is made in America from corn but the largest volumes globally are currently made in India and Brazil from sugar.

Fuel cell systems work and are safe enough to use regularly. Anybody can make a still and distill their own Ethanol. (If you can stand the smell)

The newer battery technology and electric motor technology which Elon Musk had pioneered with his team of engineers at Tesla motors will go a long way to help make these cars even better than ever.

But the main problem with most EVs to date is the lack of electricity generation....they must be capable of generating power or during disasters we are going to be in worse trouble. Electric grids go down during hurricanes...no one can charge a car. Things like this are major issues.
They are working on making hydrocarbons using renewable energy. This could be much better than a battery because it would make it much easier to fill up the cars on the move. Also we could store the energy much better than with batteries. When you think about renewable energy it is not simply on a daily cycle, but also a seasonal cycle. You might get twice the energy from solar in the summer than you would in the winter. So you would need to be able to store it up in the summer for the winter. Also, batteries don't work well when it gets very cold. Also, hydrocarbons are easier and cheaper to store than hydrogen gas.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,903
5,634
113
And even if we stopped using so much gasoline for vehicles...we can't stop using petroleum products.

Petroleum is what makes so much today....from vitamins to fertilizers....products to packaging. Roads and tires...paint and keyboards. We aren't giving up these things anytime soon.
There is no need to, that is the whole disingenuousness of this. You can recycle hydrocarbons.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,633
7,664
113
Looks to me all this tree hugging green revolution stuff gets us away from the Creators plan, He knows the end from the beginning and it is looking more and more that this is the last of the last days with many worshipping the Creation over the Creator, He has provided all we need to live for Him and allow us to fulfill His command to "take and hold" until our Lord and Saviors return.:):coffee:(y)
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,857
1,565
113
Looks to me all this tree hugging green revolution stuff gets us away from the Creators plan, He knows the end from the beginning and it is looking more and more that this is the last of the last days with many worshipping the Creation over the Creator, He has provided all we need to live for Him and allow us to fulfill His command to "take and hold" until our Lord and Saviors return.:):coffee:(y)
Yep unless they reason through how to live without electricity and without the stuff the big box stores sell they'll never make it through the first year. If they knew that then they would be talking about seed viability and creating compost and not how to bandage Babylon as fast as the Lord takes it apart. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/11-18.htm
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,903
5,634
113
Looks to me all this tree hugging green revolution stuff gets us away from the Creators plan, He knows the end from the beginning and it is looking more and more that this is the last of the last days with many worshipping the Creation over the Creator, He has provided all we need to live for Him and allow us to fulfill His command to "take and hold" until our Lord and Saviors return.:):coffee:(y)

There is a wonderful symmetry of the seals and trumpets, as you remove Jesus from the Earth with the various raptures you remove life from the earth and you discover what life without Jesus is like.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,903
5,634
113

  • Twenty-two China high-yield bond issuers, all related to the property sector, have either defaulted on their U.S. dollar-denominated bonds or deferred repayment with bond exchanges since the start of this year, Goldman Sachs analysts Kenneth Ho and Chakki Ting wrote in a report Friday.
  • “Given the pick up in stresses, we raise our FY22 China Property HY default rate forecast to 31.6% (from 19.0% previously), which was our previous bear case assumption,” the analysts said.
  • This month, Chinese authorities cut mortgage rates and a benchmark for those rates in an attempt to support the massive real estate sector.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/24/gol...al-estate-defaults-switches-to-bear-case.html

  • Worries about Evergrande’s ability to repay its debt and a total of $300 billion in liabilities has put global investors on edge about potential spillover into the rest of China’s real estate industry and economy.
  • A closer look at Evergrande revealed a company with many of the same problems as others in the Chinese property sector, but didn’t act as quickly to respond to government rules aimed at resolving those issues.
  • The company not only failed to address tighter regulation on debt levels, but was the biggest Chinese real estate issuer of overseas high-yield bonds.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/19/how...f-on-the-wrong-side-of-chinas-regulators.html