"... the stupidity of the American voter..."

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TheAristocat

TheAristocat

Senior Member
#1
Oct 4, 2011
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#1
ObamaCare architect says lack of transparency helped law pass, cites 'stupidity of the American voter' | Fox News

So from what I gather, the democrats were calling it a tax in the political sphere and telling the public that it wasn't a tax. Because if it weren't a tax, then it would have never passed. Because it would have been deemed unconstitutional since it is effectively the government forcing the American public to buy a product. Can't have it both ways, democrats. Is it a tax or is it unconstitutional?
 
TheAristocat

TheAristocat

Senior Member
#2
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
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#2
Basically, if the public thought it was a tax it wouldn't have passed. So the democrats were telling their party members it wasn't, so they'd be alright with it. And if it weren't a tax, then the government wouldn't have allowed it to pass, because it'd be illegal. So legally it had to be considered a tax. So either the democrats were lying to their constituents or else they're undermining the Constitution and lying to the Supreme Court. Lack of transparency, double talk, and undermining the Constitution. So, the usual?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#3
Jul 31, 2013
36,670
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from what i understand, the title of the news article doesn't really reflect the content.

he argues that if the mandate had been had been clearly seen as taxation, "the stupidity of the American people (call it whatever you want)" would have led them to kill the bill.

in other words, the law is a good thing to have, but the people not understanding it would have prevented it from being enacted. he's not saying that it was able to pass because the people are "stupid" - but that people not not comprehending it would try to kill it out of their "stupidity"

this line of thought is sort of born out by all the anti-obamacare propaganda like RFID chips, death panels, etc. -- all the totally unfounded rumors and fearmongering that's been going on since it was enacted.

this guys comments are edited and lack context. i'm not sure from what's presented here we're getting the real gist of what he's trying to say. more sensationalizing from an agenda-driven news outlet IMO. i hate how deceptive that site's article titles are - deliberate misrepresentation of the news.

i mean, what the guy is saying doesn't appear to be great news or anything, but he's not saying what the title of the article implies.
 
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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4
Jul 31, 2013
36,670
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#4
TheAristocat said:
So, the usual?
Click to expand...
lack of substantive reporting, sensationalizing a sound-bite to misrepresent an argument, stirring up an emotional response against the healthcare reform en toto instead of making intellectual arguments against its contents -- yeah, the usual.
 
H

Human

Banned
#5
Oct 30, 2014
1,150
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#5
TheAristocat said:
ObamaCare architect says lack of transparency helped law pass, cites 'stupidity of the American voter' | Fox News

So from what I gather, the democrats were calling it a tax in the political sphere and telling the public that it wasn't a tax. Because if it weren't a tax, then it would have never passed. Because it would have been deemed unconstitutional since it is effectively the government forcing the American public to buy a product. Can't have it both ways, democrats. Is it a tax or is it unconstitutional?
Click to expand...
Once a proposed gov't expenditure from tax becomes legislated, it is not considered to be the public's purchase of a product but an expenditure from tax. If Obamacare were a case of people being forced to buy a product, then by the same logic you could say free state education is tax payers being 'forced to buy children's educations', or that gov't road maintenance is people being 'forced to buy bitumen', or that running water is people 'being forced to pay for copper pipes', and while technically it is true, would you rather you didn't have roads, water and somewhat affordable healthcare?

I'd rather a government paved the way for universal healthcare by subsidizing health insurance via tax than, say, bought billions of dollars of deadly weapons every year!! To use your 'buying a product' logic, in that vein - your government forces you to buy the deaths of hundreds of thousands every year mate!

Sort your priorities out!
 
TheAristocat

TheAristocat

Senior Member
#6
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
26
0
#6
posthuman said:
from what i understand, the title of the news article doesn't really reflect the content.

he argues that if the mandate had been had been clearly seen as taxation, "the stupidity of the American people (call it whatever you want)" would have led them to kill the bill.

in other words, the law is a good thing to have, but the people not understanding it would have prevented it from being enacted. he's not saying that it was able to pass because the people are "stupid" - but that people not not comprehending it would try to kill it out of their "stupidity"

this line of thought is sort of born out by all the anti-obamacare propaganda like RFID chips, death panels, etc. -- all the totally unfounded rumors and fearmongering that's been going on since it was enacted.

this guys comments are edited and lack context. i'm not sure from what's presented here we're getting the real gist of what he's trying to say. more sensationalizing from an agenda-driven news outlet IMO. i hate how deceptive that site's article titles are - deliberate misrepresentation of the news.

i mean, what the guy is saying doesn't appear to be great news or anything, but he's not saying what the title of the article implies.
Click to expand...
In other words, the American people are stupid, and they need to be tricked into voting for what they really want.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#7
Jul 31, 2013
36,670
13,128
113
#7
TheAristocat said:
In other words, the American people are stupid, and they need to be tricked into voting for what they really want.
Click to expand...
it's a cutting observation, but not entirely untrue.
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#8
Apr 18, 2013
9,348
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#8
My first inclination is to defend the intelligence of the American voter...

but, well, I might be on slippery ground.

: )
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#9
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#9
These things have a way of coming home to roost. The lawmakers are the first folks to feel the discontent of the "stupid" voters. The courts will no doubt have more opportunities to render decisions as to the validity of the law. The more the "stupid" voters suffer under the law the more intense to repercussions.

God has said that they will profess themselves to be wise but He will make fools out of them.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Billyd

Billyd

Senior Member
#10
May 8, 2014
5,051
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#10
Look at the politicians that we continually elect and reelect. I don't like the word stupid (prefer uneducated), and rest my case.
 
S

Susanna

Guest
#11
#11
Well, the voter's haven't got much of a choice when it comes down to business...it is either the donkey or the elephant...
 
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