Westboro Baptist- Christian or not?

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smithbr8

Guest
#1
#1
I don't understand why other denominations can declare another one as not Christian. It's happening primarily with Catholics, but Westboro is another one. Everyone interprets the Bible differently. They are literalists. Why does that make them non-Christian? I don't agree with half of what they do, but I wouldn't go as far as to say they aren't Christians.
 
JimJimmers

JimJimmers

Senior Member
#2
Apr 26, 2012
2,584
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#2
Well, I can't say they're not saved, of course, but 1 John says, "He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love." I can say of a certainty that they do not know God, but God will judge where they spend eternity.
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#3
#3
You will know them by their fruit.

The fruit of Westboro is hatred and bigotry and arrogance.

Seems simple to me.
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#4
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
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#4
They are christian of the reformed tradition. Just doing a little overemphasizing on some particular sin/ners. God's wrath is real is upon ALL wicked souls.
 
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SpaceCowboy

Guest
#5
#5
There about as Christian as Ghengis Khan.
 
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River_W

Guest
#6
#6
I'm always really hurt when people say that I am not Christian because I identify as Catholic. I've been going to Catholic school since I was in kindergarten. I would not have learned about Jesus if it wan't for that. True, I don't agree with all the doctrine. The Vatican is run by conservative men and I go to a liberal, feminist, all women university that was founded by awesome Catholic nuns. But I don't answer to the Pope. I answer to Christ.

Now, the Westboro Baptist Church. I'll tell you that I don't think highly of them, but being Christian is about knowing the Lord--accepting Christ. Looking at their actions as a church, you could say they are not Christians. Their behavior is not Christ-like. However, you cannot judge the individual people of that church and what they know in their heart. That's never our place.

Christians are recognized by their fruit, yes, but sometimes even strong Christ loving individuals grow bitter fruit because of ignorance.

In Christ,
River

smithbr8 said:
I don't understand why other denominations can declare another one as not Christian. It's happening primarily with Catholics, but Westboro is another one. Everyone interprets the Bible differently. They are literalists. Why does that make them non-Christian? I don't agree with half of what they do, but I wouldn't go as far as to say they aren't Christians.
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rainacorn

Guest
#7
#7
I agree we cannot judge their hearts. However, I think your language is too soft and misses something very important.

Their behavior isn't just 'not Christ-like' it is ANTI-CHRIST. It goes directly against Jesus' plea for compassion and loving your neighbors and even your enemies. They are contrary to putting God ahead of all things. They are dripping with pride and they hide behind the American constitution, NOT the Word of God.

Westboro destroys Christianity from the inside. We need to call it out for what it is. What fellowship can light have with darkness?
 
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SpaceCowboy

Guest
#8
#8
rainacorn said:
Westboro destroys Christianity from the inside.
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I agree with you, except for this. These people are a gross perversion of Christianity but they will never destroy it.

They will bow with the rest of us when it's all said and done.
Glory be to God.
 
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starfield

Senior Member
#9
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
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#9
They are correct that God hates sin but is that all there is to our Heavenly Father? He hates sin but is also a merciful, forgiving, and loving Father that sent His Son to pay the penalty for sin and bring redemption to mankind (this is a message they hold back). They cast hatred on innocent people, is that a mark of a true disciple of Christ? Not all that says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of God but those that do the will of the Father. Frankly speaking, their doctrine will definitely harden the hearts of sinners. Satan is using them to slander Christianity.
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#11
#11
starfield said:
They are correct that God hates sin but is that all there is to our Heavenly Father? He hates sin but is also a merciful, forgiving, and loving Father that sent His Son to pay the penalty for sin and bring redemption to mankind (this is a message they hold back). They cast hatred on innocent people, is that a mark of a true disciple of Christ? Not all that says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of God but those that do the will of the Father. Frankly speaking, their doctrine will definitely harden the hearts of sinners. Satan is using them to slander Christianity.
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Agreed. They don't say God hates sin, they say God hates sinners.

That should ring as immediately false to all believers.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#12
#12
rainacorn said:
Agreed. They don't say God hates sin, they say God hates sinners.

That should ring as immediately false to all believers.
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I guess the Psalmist was wrong?

Psalm 5

3 In the morning, Lord, you hear my voice;
in the morning I lay my requests before you
and wait expectantly.
4 For you are not a God who is pleased with wickedness;
with you, evil people are not welcome.
5 The arrogant cannot stand
in your presence.
You hate all who do wrong;
6 you destroy those who tell lies.
The bloodthirsty and deceitful
you, Lord, detest.
 
Ritter

Ritter

Banned
#13
Jul 25, 2005
2,417
34
0
#13
I have not delved deep into their theology, but it appears to me that they are a cult.
 
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FrankensteinGirls

Banned
#14
Aug 8, 2010
531
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#14
They are a hate group and nothing more.
I' ve watched some documentaries on them, they justified their beliefs with some verse ( i need to look it up again to find it) but I remember it seemed to be taken out of context with what the whole message was.

The Doc I've most recently was called "Fall From Grace" it's on netflix
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#15
#15
jimmydiggs said:
I guess the Psalmist was wrong?

Psalm 5

3 In the morning, Lord, you hear my voice;
in the morning I lay my requests before you
and wait expectantly.
4 For you are not a God who is pleased with wickedness;
with you, evil people are not welcome.
5 The arrogant cannot stand
in your presence.
You hate all who do wrong;
6 you destroy those who tell lies.
The bloodthirsty and deceitful
you, Lord, detest.
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We don't have to be slaves to sin anymore, brother. Jesus died for the sins of the world.

All have sinned and fallen short. All have a chance for redemption through Christ.

I won't speculate on the meaning of what you posted since it could potentially derail, but I will say that my understanding of the Christian message is not a list of individuals that God hates, but rather one of hope and love.

Perhaps I'm wrong there, but I really don't think so.

Sidenote- I'd be interested to hear more about your understanding of God hating individuals. Perhaps create another thread so you can explain your point of view and how it works within the truth and purpose of Christ?
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#16
#16
rainacorn said:
not a list of individuals that God hates
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There is at least one list in scripture. (in addition to psalm 5:5 of course)

Proverbs 6:16-19

16 There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
 
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kayem77

Guest
#17
#17
I watched an interview on the Tyra Banks Show with three girls from the WBC. I don't know who in their right mind would say they have a Christian attitude. They go to a Christian church, they read the Bible (maybe?) but I don't see the fruit.....I'll let Scripture explain why we doubt their faith. Of course, God will judge their hearts but I think the Bible is really clear about what God expects from us:

If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.1 John 1:6

But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him. 1John 2:11

If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.1 John 4:20

Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.Luke 6:44

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23
 
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episcopotic

Guest
#18
#18
The point, for me, is never to identify whether someone is Christian. The word didn't come into popular use until Antioch, apparently, and the earliest Christians didn't call themselves Christians. If you have to be Christian to get into heaven, they're all in hell, because when they got to heaven and God asked if they were Christian, the word hadn't been used yet.

If a person says they're Christian, that's enough for me. It's not what their salvation is based on and is, at best, good for demographic purposes. Religious affiliation means almost nothing.

So these Christians might be lukewarm, faithful, African, apostate, bigoted, nearly perfect, violent, loving, very sinful, less sinful, Australian, lying, or Dutch - and how fortunate it is that we have these adjectives - but none of this makes them a Christian or not a Christian. It's the wrong question.

Anybody who looks at WBC sees. It doesn't need to be categorized and we don't need to worry about their religious affiliation. They say they're Christian. What are the other adjectives?
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#19
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
83
#19
Truth is hate for those that hate the truth.
 
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