What Should Christians Think of Governments That Criminalize Homosexuality?

[ThomistColin]

The truth is, while gay marriage should be off the table (Honestly, marriage itself should be out of government hands since it is a religious institution), the criminalization of homosexuality is wrong. It should not be a crime to be a practicing homosexual. Just as it should not be a crime punishable by secular law to commit adultery. Personally, I don't believe the government should dictate what one does in the privacy of one's own home, as long as it does not inflict direct harm upon another. I dread the day our government allows religious law to be enforced upon people of other religions.

 

[Simona25]

What is to stop him from saying "Well, I find your open-air evangelism to be another thing that degrades the Russian Orthodox Church and therefore the Russian nation. Have fun in the salt mines."

Is this what a gay activist is facing if he transgresses that law? The salt mines? Come on!
As for the open-air evangelism, is rather the civilized UK that finds that agressive:

[video=youtube;F2vu9CI5Ij4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2vu9CI5Ij4[/video]

In France, femen activists (a group of hysterical topless women) go in churches, urinate and imitate an abortion (of Jesus Christ).

"On 20 December, witnesses say a bare-breasted Femen activist wearing a blue veil walked up to the altar of the famous Madeleine church in Paris where she then imitated an abortion, left a calf’s liver on the floor to represent a fœtus and then urinated, in front of about a dozen people, while a choir was rehearsing for Christmas."

Who funds Femen in France? asks MP after church abortion stunt - France - Ukraine - RFI

You are right. There is a thin line between banning the gay propaganda and persecuting the gays, just like there is a small line between having the "pride march" and pushing agressively a gay agenda.

 

[Simona25]

You are right. There is a thin line between banning the gay propaganda and persecuting the gays, just like there is a small line between having the "pride march" and pushing agressively a gay agenda.

However, I am still against gay propaganda although the devil has found a cleverer way to brainwash the masses through mass-media by presenting the sexual imorality as something cool and trendy.

 

[Simona25]

What is to stop him from saying "Well, I find your open-air evangelism to be another thing that degrades the Russian Orthodox Church and therefore the Russian nation. Have fun in the salt mines."

And one more thing: how come people no longer debate homosexuality from a medical point of view? Why is homosexuality just "another thing that degrades the Russian Orthodox Church" (or any other christian church?). Isn't any sin not only a transgression of God's law, but, by extension, a corruption of our nature, a bad-use of what God gave us and therefore unhealthy for the body and soul? Do our doctors encourage us to overeat and than stick our fingers in the throats to throw up? No. Why is different with homosexuality (or other sexual perversions/frustrations)? Why do doctors shut up?

 

[Percepi]

Banning gay propaganda?

In America, we support free speech.

If the government has the power to censor those who speak against God or God's will, then the government has the power to censor those who preach in favor of God or God's will.

 

[Desdichado]

And one more thing: how come people no longer debate homosexuality from a medical point of view? Why is homosexuality just "another thing that degrades the Russian Orthodox Church" (or any other christian church?). Isn't any sin not only a transgression of God's law, but, by extension, a corruption of our nature, a bad-use of what God gave us and therefore unhealthy for the body and soul? Do our doctors encourage us to overeat and than stick our fingers in the throats to throw up? No. Why is different with homosexuality (or other sexual perversions/frustrations)? Why do doctors shut up?

Because the empowerment of the Russian Orthodox Church is Putin's short-term goal, not public health.

 

[JimJimmers]

Oh yeah I remember that discussion I still think having the option to switch pornography on/off would be okay. But I agree with you. It's very difficult to establish a government in a secular world, because we all have different principles and morals, especially us Christians. My viewpoint is that Christians shouldn't use the government to judge things that are to be judged in the Church, and I mean things that aren't a direct threat for society. Should we speak against those things? Of course! But that's all we can do. We cannot force the State to punish adultery, homosexuality, lust, disobedience, idolatry, sorcery, etc. There wouldn't be anyone on the streets .

On the other hand, I also believe the Govt should stay out of the Church. And I agree that a free market should take care of those issues. Forcing someone to go against their conscience is unjust, and also a violation of freedom of religion, which to me is a violation of freedom of expression, which the Govt isn't supposed to deny to anyone, religious or not. Which is why I'm not so sure if I would support a ban on gay propaganda altogether. As with anything sexual though, I would agree that children are not to be exposed to those things, but that would go with everything, not just gay propaganda.

Thank you for your 2 cents

I fully agree that having the option to switch off pornography is okay, and in fact very desirable.

I agree with you, I don't think I could support a ban on gay propaganda. Not only would it violate free speech, in my estimation it would make gay propaganda much MUCH more desirable to children and young adults. In my area, when I was a teenager, a bunch of parents tried to get a Marilyn Manson concert banned, and it was the best thing they could have done for him. It seemed like every kid in Richmond wanted to see the concert that the oppressive adults didn't want them to see. (Just to be clear here, I didn't want to see it!) But I think that illustrates my point.

 

[Desdichado]

Is this what a gay activist is facing if he transgresses that law? The salt mines? Come on!
As for the open-air evangelism, is rather the civilized UK that finds that agressive:

[video=youtube;F2vu9CI5Ij4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2vu9CI5Ij4[/video]

In France, femen activists (a group of hysterical topless women) go in churches, urinate and imitate an abortion (of Jesus Christ).

"On 20 December, witnesses say a bare-breasted Femen activist wearing a blue veil walked up to the altar of the famous Madeleine church in Paris where she then imitated an abortion, left a calf’s liver on the floor to represent a fœtus and then urinated, in front of about a dozen people, while a choir was rehearsing for Christmas."

Who funds Femen in France? asks MP after church abortion stunt - France - Ukraine - RFI

You are right. There is a thin line between banning the gay propaganda and persecuting the gays, just like there is a small line between having the "pride march" and pushing agressively a gay agenda.

I don't know what exactly a gay activist or gay man experiences in Russia beyond perhaps historical precedent. We both agree on the line and, as you point out, the West has crossed the line in its own way.

Which is where you misread my interpretation. Just because I view Russia as a developing totalitarian state does not mean I do not see the same tendencies in the West expressed in different ways.

While with Putin we run the risk of more people being silenced because they do not conform to the Eurasianist vision, with Obama, Cameron, et all we run the risk of being silenced because we do not conform with the Secular-Progressive vision. It is an increasingly hard world to be a follower of Christ.

 

[Desdichado]

No, I am past the Russia bad, America good view of the world. It is the ideas and beliefs that matter. Few statesmen of any nation are true keepers of the law with no pretensions to control their people.

 

[Sponge_Bob]

I am against homosexuality so I don't mind if they criminalize it

 

[Simona25]

Because the empowerment of the Russian Orthodox Church is Putin's short-term goal, not public health.

I don't contradict you and I am not a fan of Putin either (he is almost in a war against Ukraina). That doesn't change my views on banning the gay-propaganda. I don't care what his motivations are and as long as he is not turning into a persecutor of gays, I agree with this law. Homosexuality is a sexual deviation and should not be encouraged and pushed on people.
Having parades with almost naked men that boast about their sexual perversions is a proof that we live in a sick, stupid world.

 

[Simona25]

Which is where you misread my interpretation. Just because I view Russia as a developing totalitarian state does not mean I do not see the same tendencies in the West expressed in different ways.

While with Putin we run the risk of more people being silenced because they do not conform to the Eurasianist vision, with Obama, Cameron, et all we run the risk of being silenced because we do not conform with the Secular-Progressive vision. It is an increasingly hard world to be a follower of Christ.

You have perfectly described the cold war that we are in, today.
Both views tend to go to extremes and become modern mental inquisitions of both gays and christians.

 

[oldernotwiser]

ok, i guess a lot of people here agree with the state enforcing morality as defined within their own particular tradition. isn't banning homosexual propaganda a good start at bringing the kingdom? maybe the next step could be the usa banning any advertising that promotes usury. we probably couldn't do that tho. it would hurt the "financial sector"

 

[Simona25]

ok, i guess a lot of people here agree with the state enforcing morality as defined within their own particular tradition. isn't banning homosexual propaganda a good start at bringing the kingdom? maybe the next step could be the usa banning any advertising that promotes usury. we probably couldn't do that tho. it would hurt the "financial sector"

I hope you thought the same way when a particular group of people started to enforce immorality on others.

 

[Simona25]

In a free society, you should have the right to act stupidly. If you want to be a homosexual...

I agree...
We have a saying in Romania: "if you constantly act stupidly, there are great chances that you trully become stupid (if you wasn't one from the very beginning)". Is a stupid man really a free man? I highly doubt it. In fact, I believe that freedom and stupidity exclude themselves mutually.

 

[Simona25]

in my estimation it would make gay propaganda much MUCH more desirable to children and young adults. In my area, when I was a teenager, a bunch of parents tried to get a Marilyn Manson concert banned, and it was the best thing they could have done for him. It seemed like every kid in Richmond wanted to see the concert that the oppressive adults didn't want them to see. (Just to be clear here, I didn't want to see it!) But I think that illustrates my point.

Indeed, the bannning of gay-propaganda could have this effect, of making the gay manifestations desirable (and even turn the gay-propaganda into a good cause, worthy of fighting for) precisely because it is being forbidden and because protesting young people expose themselves to risks (not salt mines, however).

Inna, the ukranian woman that founded Femen and focus all her energy and agression on cutting wood orthodox crosses with a chainshaw (among other atrocities), is perceived by most young people as a heroine, a martyr of the modern (decadent) society. No one is wondering whether she fights the good fight or the wrong fight, the only thing that people retain is that she fights; and her fights expose her to risks - and in the terribilist mind, if she runs risks, she must be fighting the good fight (off-topic: I often wondered how does God look at this?).

Back to your idea, in the majority of eastern european countries, is not one person (a president) that is against gay-propaganda (gay-marriage), but the majority of people. Which is why I think that banning the gay-propaganda could reflect not only a one-person decision, but the culture and the values of people. The "gay march" in eastern european countries looks nothing like those from western countries. In Romania, for example, the secular-atheist organisation (that is behind the gay-propaganda) barely finds 30 gays to have the "march of pride", to which they add themselves (I mean atheist activists that are not gay) and a loooot of police to prevent eventual fights that, unfortunately, can take place.

 

[SonInMe]

Maybe we should promote heterosexuality.

Marriage.

Family....oh wait, how oppressive

 

[JimJimmers]

I see where you're coming from. By the way, does this Inna cut crosses out of trees using a chainsaw, or is she cutting down existing crosses with a chainsaw?

I was going to look it up myself, but it turns out it's a bad idea to Google 'Inna'.

 

[Percepi]

Maybe we should promote heterosexuality.

Marriage.

Family....oh wait, how oppressive

If they're not being promoted, then I don't think you're doing your job.

Family is being promoted! And guess what, not everyone thinks homosexuality is wrong, and you can't force them to change that. All you can do is speak. But hey, that's freedom.

People have this idea "Freedom is amazing! But only if I'm free and everyone else is okay with how I live and how I am free and they follow me."

 

[SonInMe]

Freedom, true human freedom is totally slavery to Christ.

I can believe murder is right, does not make it true.

Did ya see the young girl who sang on American Idol this week, that lived in Sanfransisco with her two moms?

nuff said.