When is it gonna be enough?

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Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,071
3,255
113
#21
I'm sick of theology that tells me to hate people based on their skin color, religion, sexual orientation, or whatever.
If you have been indoctrinated into a religon that teaches you to hate people then you have not been indoctrinated into the teachings of the LORD Jesus Christ... Not sure what religion you belong to but it is not Bible based Christianity..
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,535
113
#22
Here's my message to my fellow Christians out there.

Don't trust the church. Don't trust evangelicals. Trust NO ONE but God.

Christians, I refuse to be called one myself until YOU get your act together. WE are NOT God's favorites, we are not his "chosen" people, the world does not revolve around America and it certainly does not revolve around US! I am ashamed of and disappointed in you. Prove yourself WORTHY of my trust, and maybe I'll associate with you again. Prove to me that you are pro-life not just because you're against abortion. Prove to me that you care when a pedophile takes a child's innocence. The burden of proof is on YOU!
Oh I see. You are too good to be called a Christian. Whom do you expect to move out of the trinity to make room for you?

Remember from where thou art fallen.

Do not expect sinners to live up to the standard of born again Christians. Our example to follow is not our fellow man but Christ Himself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
2,207
113
#23
I'm sick of theology that tells me to hate people based on their skin color, religion, sexual orientation, or whatever. I want to judge people by their character, nothing else. Christians, the world is watching. We are called to a higher standard. And if I'm the only one willing to hold to it, then so be it.
I think you need a new church.

Love is wanting the best for someone.
Hate is the opposite. Filled with spite.

Our heavenly Father hates lies and sin so of course if someone in unbelief is running to go jump in a lake of fire, if we know where they are headed we tell them. We shine light on the truth of Jesus and tell them that only through Him they can be saved.

We don't justify things God hates and make light of them heading to hell.

Skin color?

Sounds to me like you aren't familiar with real Christians... or maybe misunderstand them completely?


Character is directly related to what we do.

If a man is cheating on his wife and sleeping with many women.... that is no worse than giving in to a homosexual temptation.

"sexual orientation" is a man made concept.


No one is born gay. To say so would make God a liar.


What happens is man/woman becomes tempted, then they entertain thoughts and then it progresses into action which results in a flesh desiring specific pleasures and a hardened heart which claims these pleasures are justified.


We are called to glorify God and shine light on the true gospel.

This means not being ashamed of His word and standing up for it.
Not as a hypocrit but praying to be delivered from temptations against His will and doing our best to show His love in us.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,004
7,969
113
#24
I think Christians need to truly understand who we are and WHERE we are.
It is NEVER going to be "enough" until the King of kings and Lord of lords opens that scroll.

WE are strangers, wanderers, pilgrims, and soldiers here on this earth. God has entrusted us to go into enemy territory, in a realm ruled by the prince of this world, satan, to spread His Gospel to save as many as He can through our preaching His word. That is why He tells us to put on His Armor. Because we are in a battle!

THAT'S it! That is why we are told not to love this evil realm, the world. We need to take advantage of EVERY opportunity to love people and deliver the eternal, life giving Gospel.

Houses, cars, jobs, Disneyworld, Tvs, etc.. are ALL going to burn to nothingness. It's the PEOPLE we need to focus on. Things are going to get a LOT worse so we better just keep our eyes on the Blessed Hope, and NOT despair.
 
Feb 20, 2016
1,151
266
83
#25
I think Christians need to truly understand who we are and WHERE we are.
It is NEVER going to be "enough" until the King of kings and Lord of lords opens that scroll.

WE are strangers, wanderers, pilgrims, and soldiers here on this earth. God has entrusted us to go into enemy territory, in a realm ruled by the prince of this world, satan, to spread His Gospel to save as many as He can through our preaching His word. That is why He tells us to put on His Armor. Because we are in a battle!

THAT'S it! That is why we are told not to love this evil realm, the world. We need to take advantage of EVERY opportunity to love people and deliver the eternal, life giving Gospel.

Houses, cars, jobs, Disneyworld, Tvs, etc.. are ALL going to burn to nothingness. It's the PEOPLE we need to focus on. Things are going to get a LOT worse so we better just keep our eyes on the Blessed Hope, and NOT despair.
Things have been worse since Jesus left. I'm not a pre-dispensationalist.
 

Ohm

Junior Member
Mar 4, 2018
160
35
28
#26
I know I'll expect resistance, given the nasty things I've said before. I know I may be mocked, ridiculed, and sidelined. But I don't care. I have a strong opinion and I want to share it.

We've had five shootings in the last five days. Christians, when are we gonna get serious about this beyond "thoughts and prayers?" Thoughts and prayers are meaningless without action. Something needs to be done.

Maybe less guns won't solve the problem, but more certainly won't help either. Should we just sit back and let the nation become a terrorist state? Should gun violence only be stopped by making sure the good guy has the bigger gun? You know something is terribly wrong when shootings become a matter of "when" rather than "if." If Christians want to be part of the solution, we can't just pray, we need to do something. Then again, according to a lot of evangelicals, the world is going to be consumed by fire anyway so why bother doing jack?

I'm honestly ashamed to call myself a Christian now, not because I'm ashamed of Jesus, but because I'm ashamed of my fellow Christians who've all but sold their souls to political power. The past few years have proven to me that most Christians aren't much different, if at all, from the world. We're sloppy with grace and don't teach people to be responsible for their actions.

There are people in this world who are evil and do not deserve our sympathy. I do not feel one bit sorry for all these mass shooters and all those youth teachers who turned out to be pedophiles. There are normal people, and then there are the depraved. Do not tell me there is not a difference. Do not tell me that the only unforgivable sin is "blasphemy." Blasphemy takes many forms.

But whatever, it's not like anyone truly cares. Even I prefer to isolate myself because I know that I can only take so much empathy. I can only weep with so many others who weep. This is why so many people my age are so disillusioned. We were prepared for a world that no longer exists, where people are content to hate each other rather than get over themselves and work together.

I'm sick of theology that tells me to hate people based on their skin color, religion, sexual orientation, or whatever. I want to judge people by their character, nothing else. Christians, the world is watching. We are called to a higher standard. And if I'm the only one willing to hold to it, then so be it.
I have had this debate with many a gun owner and 2nd Amendment obsessive, and it always boils down to the same thing. They care more about their right to own a gun. It's like banging your head against a brick wall.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
10,824
5,825
113
#27
I have had this debate with many a gun owner and 2nd Amendment obsessive, and it always boils down to the same thing. They care more about their right to own a gun. It's like banging your head against a brick wall.
it's also banging your head against the wall to try to explain to people who want to ban guns and/or pass more gun control laws that CRIMINALS DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW. if a wound up, mentally unstable individual wants to do bad things, he/she will find a way.

here is a main problem - the media does not talk about- the side effects of anti-depression drugs, which can trigger violent behavior.

the medical privacy laws that won't allow doctors to contact anyone if they suspect a patient might get violent,

all the fake news , saying that kids are in cages ( lies) , borders are immoral , socialism is great, white people are bad, etc..

all this stupid rhetoric is going to cause people to get more and more wound up.
 

Ohm

Junior Member
Mar 4, 2018
160
35
28
#28
it's also banging your head against the wall to try to explain to people who want to ban guns and/or pass more gun control laws that CRIMINALS DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW. if a wound up, mentally unstable individual wants to do bad things, he/she will find a way.

here is a main problem - the media does not talk about- the side effects of anti-depression drugs, which can trigger violent behavior.

the medical privacy laws that won't allow doctors to contact anyone if they suspect a patient might get violent,

all the fake news , saying that kids are in cages ( lies) , borders are immoral , socialism is great, white people are bad, etc..

all this stupid rhetoric is going to cause people to get more and more wound up.
Every country I have ever visited has laws that ban guns except for genuine usage such as hunting, sport, or for members of the armed forces. And in each of those countries, those with a firearms licence must renew it regularly, be trained especially on its use, prove that they own the gun for genuine purposes, keep the gun in a safe and secure location when not in use, and must take regular training and undergo mental health examinations when they renew their licence.

In every single one of these countries, mass shootings, for all intents and purposes, simply do not occur.

The rest of the world cannot be wrong.

Statistically, here are some countries that are safer than the USA:

South Africa, Niger, Honduras, Nicaragua, Brazil, Armenia, Thailand, Turkmenistan, Guatemala, El Salvador, Algeria, China, Uganda, Mozambique, Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Bolivia, Jamaica, Tunisia, Bosnia, Rwanda, Ecuador, Peru, Jordan, Sierra Leone, Albania, the UAE, Ghana, the UK, Indonesia, Mongola, Lithuania, Uraguay, Spain, Botswana, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Belgium, the Netherlands, Australia, Ireland, Switzerland, Japan, Canada, Austria, Portugal, New Zealand and Iceland.

And that isn't even all of them. But notice, in the list which can be found here, that every single EU country ranks above the United States for safety, and yet nearly all of them have no border controls and allow free movement between them. The EU has a population about 2/3 larger than the population of the United States, yet has only 5,200 homicides in its entirety last year. By contrast, the USA had that many homicides in just California, Texas, Florida and Illinois, which collectively have a population of just 95 million.

That is a homicide ratio of EU to USA of about 1:6. Or put another way, you are 6 times as likely to be murdered in the USA as you are in the EU. Why is that?

Well, the USA experiences the vast majority of its murders via firearms, as you can see in the graph below:



Removing guns makes murder more difficult. This is why countries with strict gun laws, for example like those in the EU, do not have as many murders as the USA does. It's simple physics: firing a projectile from a distance at supersonic speeds is far easier than getting close enough to use a knife or a pillow.

In the EU, guns are incredibly difficult to obtain, and being found with one usually carries a lengthy prison sentence. Yet, our borders are, via car, bus or train, every bit as open as the US's internal state borders are. Our population is greater, and our murder rate is significantly lower.

Guns and the laws surrounding them, are a large part of why this is the case.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
2,207
113
#29
Every country I have ever visited has laws that ban guns except for genuine usage such as hunting, sport, or for members of the armed forces. And in each of those countries, those with a firearms licence must renew it regularly, be trained especially on its use, prove that they own the gun for genuine purposes, keep the gun in a safe and secure location when not in use, and must take regular training and undergo mental health examinations when they renew their licence.

In every single one of these countries, mass shootings, for all intents and purposes, simply do not occur.

The rest of the world cannot be wrong.

Statistically, here are some countries that are safer than the USA:

South Africa, Niger, Honduras, Nicaragua, Brazil, Armenia, Thailand, Turkmenistan, Guatemala, El Salvador, Algeria, China, Uganda, Mozambique, Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Bolivia, Jamaica, Tunisia, Bosnia, Rwanda, Ecuador, Peru, Jordan, Sierra Leone, Albania, the UAE, Ghana, the UK, Indonesia, Mongola, Lithuania, Uraguay, Spain, Botswana, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Belgium, the Netherlands, Australia, Ireland, Switzerland, Japan, Canada, Austria, Portugal, New Zealand and Iceland.

And that isn't even all of them. But notice, in the list which can be found here, that every single EU country ranks above the United States for safety, and yet nearly all of them have no border controls and allow free movement between them. The EU has a population about 2/3 larger than the population of the United States, yet has only 5,200 homicides in its entirety last year. By contrast, the USA had that many homicides in just California, Texas, Florida and Illinois, which collectively have a population of just 95 million.

That is a homicide ratio of EU to USA of about 1:6. Or put another way, you are 6 times as likely to be murdered in the USA as you are in the EU. Why is that?

Well, the USA experiences the vast majority of its murders via firearms, as you can see in the graph below:



Removing guns makes murder more difficult. This is why countries with strict gun laws, for example like those in the EU, do not have as many murders as the USA does. It's simple physics: firing a projectile from a distance at supersonic speeds is far easier than getting close enough to use a knife or a pillow.

I rest my case.

How many home invasions, muggings, or knife murders occur in all these countries. How many violent crimes that could have been prevented with decent protection happen in these countries?


Your "case" does not have legs to stand on in my opinion.



The worlds love growing cold does not prove a point that it is wise to suggest honest people who wish to protect others and themselves should have rights taken away.
 

Ohm

Junior Member
Mar 4, 2018
160
35
28
#30
How many home invasions, muggings, or knife murders occur in all these countries. How many violent crimes that could have been prevented with decent protection happen in these countries?


Your "case" does not have legs to stand on in my opinion.
Like I just showed you, we have a murder rate, per person, about 6 times less than yours. There is literally a statistical graph showing the distribution of murders.

There is a reason people feel safer in the Netherlands than they do in the States. There is a reason women can walk home at night in Amsterdam but wouldn't be likely to do so in St. Louis.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
2,207
113
#31
Like I just showed you, we have a murder rate, per person, about 6 times less than yours. There is literally a statistical graph showing the distribution of murders.

There is a reason people feel safer in the Netherlands than they do in the States. There is a reason women can walk home at night in Amsterdam but wouldn't be likely to do so in St. Louis.
You think people are safer in brasil or south africa than the Us?

I disagree.

The "graph" you showed is about the US supposedly.

Grown men can't walk around safe in many cities of many of the countries you listed.... You are cherry picking.



(and no you never "showed" me the violent crime rates in all of your examples)
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,071
3,255
113
#32
Statistically, here are some countries that are safer than the USA:

South Africa, Niger, Honduras, Nicaragua, Brazil, Armenia, Thailand, Turkmenistan, Guatemala, El Salvador, Algeria, China, Uganda, Mozambique, Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Bolivia, Jamaica, Tunisia, Bosnia, Rwanda, Ecuador, Peru, Jordan, Sierra Leone, Albania, the UAE, Ghana, the UK, Indonesia, Mongola, Lithuania, Uraguay, Spain, Botswana, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Belgium, the Netherlands, Australia, Ireland, Switzerland, Japan, Canada, Austria, Portugal, New Zealand and Iceland.
You should really check out information from a number of sources, instead of just posting stuff that your biased view wants to be true...

The US homicide rate is 5.3 persons per 100,000
The homocide rate in South Africa is higher at 35.9 per 100,000 so South Africa is more dangerous..
The homicide rate in Honduras is higher at 41.7 per 100,000 so Honduras is more dangerous..
The homicide rate in Nicaragua is higher at 7.37 per 100,000 so Nicaragua is more dangerous..
The homicide rate in Brazil is higher at 30.5 per 100,000 so Brazil is more dangerous..

Need i continue?

On the list of international homicide rates the USA is number 89 .. So there are 88 countries with higher homicide rates then the USA..

International Homicide Rates..
 
K

Kim82

Guest
#33
If every one had a gun, society would be more dangerous, not peaceful.

That can't be the solution. There must be another way.
 

Smooth

Well-known member
Jul 22, 2019
460
627
93
#34
I know I may be mocked, ridiculed, and sidelined...

I'm ashamed of my fellow Christians who've all but sold their souls to political power.
Any ridicule you receive is well-deserved. Such a condescending opinion shows you are the one who worships political power as you scorn those with differing views.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,004
7,969
113
#35
Every country I have ever visited has laws that ban guns except for genuine usage such as hunting, sport, or for members of the armed forces. And in each of those countries, those with a firearms licence must renew it regularly, be trained especially on its use, prove that they own the gun for genuine purposes, keep the gun in a safe and secure location when not in use, and must take regular training and undergo mental health examinations when they renew their licence.

In every single one of these countries, mass shootings, for all intents and purposes, simply do not occur.

The rest of the world cannot be wrong.

Statistically, here are some countries that are safer than the USA:

South Africa, Niger, Honduras, Nicaragua, Brazil, Armenia, Thailand, Turkmenistan, Guatemala, El Salvador, Algeria, China, Uganda, Mozambique, Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Bolivia, Jamaica, Tunisia, Bosnia, Rwanda, Ecuador, Peru, Jordan, Sierra Leone, Albania, the UAE, Ghana, the UK, Indonesia, Mongola, Lithuania, Uraguay, Spain, Botswana, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Belgium, the Netherlands, Australia, Ireland, Switzerland, Japan, Canada, Austria, Portugal, New Zealand and Iceland.

And that isn't even all of them. But notice, in the list which can be found here, that every single EU country ranks above the United States for safety, and yet nearly all of them have no border controls and allow free movement between them. The EU has a population about 2/3 larger than the population of the United States, yet has only 5,200 homicides in its entirety last year. By contrast, the USA had that many homicides in just California, Texas, Florida and Illinois, which collectively have a population of just 95 million.

That is a homicide ratio of EU to USA of about 1:6. Or put another way, you are 6 times as likely to be murdered in the USA as you are in the EU. Why is that?

Well, the USA experiences the vast majority of its murders via firearms, as you can see in the graph below:



Removing guns makes murder more difficult. This is why countries with strict gun laws, for example like those in the EU, do not have as many murders as the USA does. It's simple physics: firing a projectile from a distance at supersonic speeds is far easier than getting close enough to use a knife or a pillow.

In the EU, guns are incredibly difficult to obtain, and being found with one usually carries a lengthy prison sentence. Yet, our borders are, via car, bus or train, every bit as open as the US's internal state borders are. Our population is greater, and our murder rate is significantly lower.

Guns and the laws surrounding them, are a large part of why this is the case.
Look at the countries this guy lists! What a joke post!

Always been amazing to me when outsiders OR some Americans, put down the U.S.A. yet people from ALL over the world are leaving, and have for 250 yrs, their "paradise" countries, sometimes with NOTHING but the clothes on their backs, for a chance to live in America.
 

Smooth

Well-known member
Jul 22, 2019
460
627
93
#36
If every one had a gun, society would be more dangerous, not peaceful.

That can't be the solution. There must be another way.
Death Penalty Express Lanes for violent criminals is the solution. Empower would-be victims by putting unadulterated fear into the hearts of would-be criminals.
 
K

Kim82

Guest
#37
Death Penalty Express Lanes for violent criminals is the solution.
But what if they were to continue to live in prison. Then who knows if maybe they would change. Some heard the gospel and became saved in prison. I feel that long prison sentence and counselling is best.
 
K

Kim82

Guest
#38
Empower would-be victims by putting unadulterated fear into the hearts of would-be criminals.
How will fear be put in them? It seems some are not even afraid of dying.
 
G

Godsgirl83

Guest
#39
But I just picked up on something that you might have not. I won't explain though.
oh..... so you DO know that just because someone says or doesn't say something, that there may be things there being picked up by some and missed by others........
 

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2009
24,510
4,213
113
#40
I know I'll expect resistance, given the nasty things I've said before. I know I may be mocked, ridiculed, and sidelined. But I don't care. I have a strong opinion and I want to share it.

We've had five shootings in the last five days. Christians, when are we gonna get serious about this beyond "thoughts and prayers?" Thoughts and prayers are meaningless without action. Something needs to be done.

Maybe less guns won't solve the problem, but more certainly won't help either. Should we just sit back and let the nation become a terrorist state? Should gun violence only be stopped by making sure the good guy has the bigger gun? You know something is terribly wrong when shootings become a matter of "when" rather than "if." If Christians want to be part of the solution, we can't just pray, we need to do something. Then again, according to a lot of evangelicals, the world is going to be consumed by fire anyway so why bother doing jack?

I'm honestly ashamed to call myself a Christian now, not because I'm ashamed of Jesus, but because I'm ashamed of my fellow Christians who've all but sold their souls to political power. The past few years have proven to me that most Christians aren't much different, if at all, from the world. We're sloppy with grace and don't teach people to be responsible for their actions.

There are people in this world who are evil and do not deserve our sympathy. I do not feel one bit sorry for all these mass shooters and all those youth teachers who turned out to be pedophiles. There are normal people, and then there are the depraved. Do not tell me there is not a difference. Do not tell me that the only unforgivable sin is "blasphemy." Blasphemy takes many forms.

But whatever, it's not like anyone truly cares. Even I prefer to isolate myself because I know that I can only take so much empathy. I can only weep with so many others who weep. This is why so many people my age are so disillusioned. We were prepared for a world that no longer exists, where people are content to hate each other rather than get over themselves and work together.

I'm sick of theology that tells me to hate people based on their skin color, religion, sexual orientation, or whatever. I want to judge people by their character, nothing else. Christians, the world is watching. We are called to a higher standard. And if I'm the only one willing to hold to it, then so be it.
I think mass shottings in the US started happening more and more since violent video games got popular in the mid to late 90's. There were a lot of popular first-person shooter games where you just run around shooting stuff, and there still are some like Fortnite.