People See the world Differently.

Liamson · Oct 16, 2013

But how, I don't really know. But I have noticed that with some women and men, I hit a sort of wall conceptually. Its like they know WHAT they want and how it should LOOK, but they need another person to help them achieve it. Its like they have this picture, and dating or relationships is like seeing which man/woman-puzzle piece fits.

I think for people like me it is a lot simpler and yet different. We see women and its as if whole new worlds of possibility open up.

We don't know what its going to look like, just as long as we get to do it with this one specific person that we love. From that love, we can build the picture, talk about marriage, kids, houses, and life in general. But we explore these things as they come up, as trust is built.

I am never going to say, "I want kids", without knowing who their mother will be. From my experience this has almost been like a language barrier. I'm not going to say, I'm looking for a wife, because that very sentence to me is equally ludicrous. I've played that game before, it doesn't end well *

From my experience, its the difference between a long term, healthy relationship and a flaming disaster. When I don't fit into the picture and I feel the health of the relationship failing, I try to fix it. But, its not a fix type of problem its a foundation problem. Its simply how some people are Oriented.

It makes me feel like they want to be with me, not for me but, for the idea of me. But when they are with me, and I start looking for who they are, outside of the picture, I usually just get error messages or blank stares.

It makes me feel like they don't really want or get ME. They want what being with me would mean to everyone else.

To me it is the equivalent of buying a car, not because YOU like the car but, because everyone else does and it fits the lifestyle and image you wish to portray. Well, I'm not the car you want to buy as a status symbol. I may or may not bring someone fame and fortune. But that isn't why they should want to be with me either. I don't want someone to want to be with me, because its the "Right" thing to do or because I successfully meet their list of criteria.

I know for me. I want to fall in love, with one person. I don't know who she is, or what she is like. I don't know what we will do or how it will go. I don't know when I will see her, or how any of it will work out. But I know she is out there and I'm happy with that.

I want them to choose me, because they want to be with me.

So is this the difference between how men and women are wired or is this something else?

Does anyone agree with me and feel the same way?

KJV15John11 · Oct 16, 2013

I think that everyone starts off with this desire. As time passes, some lose hope, and bit by bit, they reduce their ideals for something they "feel" they can realistically get. That only leads to unhappiness due to a lack of fulfillment. If, along the way, they start to see some progress towards their goal of their ideal mate, then they'll stay strong and not settle. Faith is believing that you will get that one who will want you for you, even in the face of obvious failure.

In the video "The Last" that AsifinPassing shared with us in another thread, the Why girl expressed exactly why I want to wait for that one who wants to be with me, because I want to experience everything that true love can offer with a woman who is God centered. I may have to go through Who, What, When, Where, and Why to find her, but it will be worth the wait.

I enjoy listening to songs that remind me of past loves. Not because I want to feel sad, but the sadness reminds me of how happy I was that created that sadness. Then that creates joy, because of the wonderful times, which goes on to create hope, of once again feeling those incredible feelings.

What I have learned is, you have to be willing to feel the incredible pain that comes with loss, if you want to feel the joy that created it.

Liamson · Oct 16, 2013

I've been watching those videos for HOURS LOL.

kenisyes · Oct 16, 2013

Everything good on earth starts as a gleam in God's eye. You come to the world born with a few of these gleams in your eyes. Your years of life are the opportunity to make those gleams become real and transform a piece of the world. Language is how you enlist the aid of another for the gleams that require 2. Much of the journey is sorting through your language with another to decide on the steps to the gleam. Because it all came from God, the journey is caused by love, creates and grows love, and ends in love with anyone who shares it. In fact, the journey itself IS love.

MissCris · Oct 16, 2013

Liamson said:

It's definitely not just a gender difference.

There have been a couple of different guys in my past who never really saw ME at all, just that I could fit this puzzle they were missing a piece to. I was friends with a guy for a long time who kept bringing up that he wanted to date me because I am a real "lady" and his parents would have approved. He liked that I could dress well without looking like a mannequin in a window display. He liked that I'd grown up going to the church his parents went to. His parents liked me, but only because they knew my grandparents from church and respected them. I was from the "right" family.

But he didn't know a thing about who I really was. He couldn't remember anything I said I liked...because it didn't matter, as long as I behaved like a "lady". He rarely ever asked me anything about myself, or my past...because it didn't matter, so long as I wore the right clothes or fixed my hair right.

The last time I talked to him, he asked me out. And I considered it; it would have been fun, we'd have gone some expensive place and he would have bought me anything I wanted, and I'd have laughed a lot with him. But that was his idea of what a date should be, with no thought for what I would have wanted to do. It all would have been for him, for show, to put me into this ready-made role...so I told him no. He actually argued with me- he had a lot of reasons why I should go out with him, but when I asked him why he wanted to go out with me...well, he gave me a lot of compliments on how I looked, and he said he wanted to be with a Christian woman and hey, I was one.

Dating him would have been like...going willingly into a pretty little cage, and marrying him would have been like locking myself in and throwing away the key.

So...my point is, men and women alike are prone to this behavior, this mindset, this sort of...painting themselves a picture and being unable to finish it until they see a face that fits into it.

It feels really bad to be that face. Unless of course you just don't realize what's going on because you're doing the same thing to someone. In that case...good luck with your puzzle.

I thought I had more to add, but I've derailed my own train over here...it's chaos...fire, people screaming...*shudders*

rachelsedge · Oct 16, 2013

I get exactly what you're saying, Liamson. I think it's something we have to be very careful of, that we don't fall in love with the idea of love, or the idea of that person, rather than the person themselves. I wonder if this is one of the causes for breakups/divorces: People get together with a person because they like the idea of a relationship, of love, but then once they're in that relationship and that wears off and they see who they are truly with, they realize they don't connect at all.

I went on a few dates with someone a little over a month ago. When I told him I didn't want to pursue a relationship, he got very upset. He really wanted to be with me (he came off as really desperate, a huge turn off anyway) and said he wanted me to be his girlfriend. I got irritated and a little angry, because he barely knew me. He knew some about me, sure, but he didn't truly know me, and here he was saying I was perfect for him. How dare he say I was perfect for him when he doesn't know what stirs my heart, what breaks it, what ticks me off, what makes me laugh, what makes me cry? He liked the idea of being with me, but he didn't truly know me, and it became very obvious very early on: That I was only meant to fit the picture he had already painted and not that he wanted us to paint something together or discover the colors we each had.

Didn't mean to go on a venting rant, there, Liamson...I know where you're coming from, basically.

Jullianna · Oct 16, 2013

Liamson said:

MissCris said:

Bravo.

"A pretty face don't make no pretty heart
I learned that buddy from the start
You think I'm cute, a little bit shy
Mama, I ain't that kind of guy"

One can end up with a great many cuts and bruises from the molds others attempt to press us into.

Yes, I ended that sentence with a preposition. I lived through it. Did you?

Grace-Like-Rain · Oct 16, 2013

I tend to be a positive happy person by nature. (There are exceptions of course, but that's my nature.) So it doesn't take me long to find the good things about a situation, and start getting excited about where it could go. For thinking about dating or men, I find that my first thoughts are how well we get on together, how easily conversation flows, etc. But when I start thinking long-term (we've been married 20 years) my mind pictures things we will DO together. Time spent together working in ministry or traveling, camping or doing yard work side by side. I don't have any preconceived idea of what that should look like, especially before even meeting the person. But as we talk, I see that he likes boating, so my mind imagines what life would be like if we did that a lot. Or I notice he is into sports, and I wonder how our life would be if day-to-day activities included playing or watching sports. If he wanted children, what life would be like raising babies again. If he likes to read, would we spend time reading aloud together before bedtime? These are things I think about, but it's always in relation to WHO the person is - as a unique individual.

So I'm a little conflicted. I am not trying to fit any man into a specific hole in MY life. (I don't feel like I have a hole, really.) Any daydreaming I'd do about a man I thought of as a potential mate would be crafted around who HE is as a person, not necessarily who I'd want him to be.

However, my thoughts don't end at who he IS either. I am including "what would we do" in with it as well when considering. At first that made me feel pretty guilty, like I'm more concerned with WHAT than with WHO. But on second thought... what we do is often who we are. And a lot of time in a marriage is spent doing things. Two people in a marriage don't just exist at the soul level. Memories and love and fondness and bonding come out through activities done together. So, the thought of the person excites me, but I'd be lying if I said that when I think of what our life together would be like, it didn't include activities we'd do together as a couple. I don't know if that's shallow or practical. Someone else tell me?!

rachelsedge · Oct 16, 2013

I don't think that's shallow or impractical, GLR. I think that's recognizing who they are and what they like to do and whether or not that will connect with you. Connection is necessary, I believe. Connection in what we do, how we think, who we are. They don't have to be exactly the same, but they should at least mesh. I don't think Liamson means that you can't daydream or have expectations of qualities you want in a spouse. I certainly can't even imagine being with someone who isn't gentle; we just wouldn't get along. He'd always be hurting my feelings or I'd always feel pushed, and I just wouldn't be happy. I also daydream about what my spouse and I will do together, what my family may be like.

I think what he is saying though (and correct me if I'm wrong here, Liamson) is when we focus on the daydream too much and don't get to know the person as a person. We want that idea of love so bad, that we'll make just anyone fit that mold without taking into consideration who they are. We focus so much on what we want, and not so much on the other person.

Not sure if that makes sense or if I know what I'm saying anymore.

I do see where you're coming from and also agree with you.

Grace-Like-Rain · Oct 16, 2013

Thanks Rachel - in that case I think I'm okay. My daydreams come from who the person is and usually revolve around their own character. I learned a long time ago that a man (or a woman) can't fit in a mold that you create yourself. Their character or personality isn't going to change. So you'd better like it to begin with!

There's a downside to knowing that too, though. I tend to be much more choosy, trying to anticipate anything that could cause a problem in a marriage - ever. That fear of incompatibility will likely hurt me one day, because I was afraid to embrace and appreciate our differences.

Ugly · Oct 16, 2013

Either i am more tired than i thought, or nearly everything in this thread is incomprehensible and confusing. Starting with the OP.

MissCris · Oct 16, 2013

Ugly said:

I think you're excessively tired

I think what's being said here is:

Some people have this image in their mind of what their future relationship is supposed to be like, and it doesn't matter WHO that relationship is with, so much as simply getting that relationship. Sort of like...a LOT of young girls daydream about their wedding day, their dress and their colors and their cake and flowers...and as they're so focused on WHAT they want to happen, the groom himself is just a vague, faceless, but necessary part of it all. They don't really daydream about the groom at all, but they need one in order to have a wedding.

...I know I only explained half of it...

AsifinPassing · Oct 16, 2013

That's a lot to respond to. Using a common/popular depiction of this via Lord of the Rings, Aragorn and Arwen love each other, not for ideas, but through choice, experiences, etc.

Eowin tries to jump in during the Rohan conflict while Aragorn thought Arwen was gone forever, but even despite that, they get to a point where Aragorn says, "It's but a shadow and a dream that you love."

I think many of us live there. We have ideas, dreams, maybe even less defined wishes than that that we hopefully, desperately, or otherwise just patiently wait for to become reality. The danger, then, is where we take that. I know it's brought me heartache, and many have posted already from the other side.

In my case, it was different. Some molds are easy to fit. What if you did truly care about the person? What if you spent time to get to know them on deep, intimate levels? What if one day...you had to bridge who that person was ( and you were with them) against who you need to/should be, and roles that other person would need to play (like in ministry)?

Well, it often ends. In my case, only thrice, but from the other, 4X that a amount. Is it that the mold is bad? So you drop it...and things get worse...

Alright, is it that the mold is good? So you define it, and may even find someone to fit, but it doesn't work out either.

Hm...now what? Perhaps, there are peices, vague or specific, that need to exist already "mold", but others that you build specifically with the person you find to love. You both already have peices to the foundation and house, but have to come together, making changes, combining some, creating completely new areas in others, and maybe even giving up on a few, to build a good house.

However, you can't/shouldn't just build a house with anyone, because you have to live in it. What you should be building is home, together, wherever or whatever you are. So I wait, with my good and bad peices, half a schematic, and an outstretched arm in offered hopes of acceptance and love with a partner who would venture me.

Just a thought, and more likely to follow...

Liamson · Oct 16, 2013

MissCris said:

This is it.

And Grace-Like-Rain, if you have someone to daydream with, plan with or around, its fine. Its just a dream.

But when a person is closed off to anything else but their own ideal, there is simply no possible way to fit into it. Its begging for unhappiness. And I suppose if a guy was really lonely, he might just go along with it.

Grace-Like-Rain · Oct 16, 2013

AsifinPassing said:

You have a beautiful way with words.

AsifinPassing · Oct 16, 2013

Grace-Like-Rain said:

Thank you. At times in life, it's felt as though they were all I had... Reminds me of a line in a song, actually:

[video=youtube;aws8Ldl1d0Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aws8Ldl1d0Q[/video]

MissCris · Oct 16, 2013

Liamson said:

I think it's probably really easy for anyone to just go along with it, if they haven't got a good sense of who they are as an individual, or they think so little of themselves that they're just happy somebody wants to be with them. Loneliness, too, of course. Basically, if a person isn't in a healthy frame of mind, I think they're more likely to walk into a "trap" like this (and no, I don't mean that the people are intentionally setting these traps, necessarily. It's just the way they think; "I want a, b, and c to happen in my life, and I already have x and y, now I just need z...". In a way, it's sort of logical, but in an unfeeling, Vulcan kind of way).

But, whatever the reason behind it, it does lead to unhappiness. And bitterness. And unfair generalizations when things don't work out.

Yeah, bad business any way you look at it.

Jullianna · Oct 16, 2013

Some people have a hole in their dream, like the photo Liamson posted. Sometimes it's a photograph in their mind. Sometimes it is actually a life they have already built for themselves.

Some people want to meet someone amazing and see where life takes them. Some people want their lives to change as little as possible and are looking for someone they can shove into the mold, no matter what it does to that someone. Love should never be that selfish. If you try to pair the first person with the second it can (and likely will) be a recipe for disaster.

As was mentioned in the divorced folks thread, people are different. There are different needs and different expectations. When you try and force two people to be together who don't belong together just because they convince themselves that one or both are in love, the result is that one of them will usually end up giving in...and eventually giving up, because only one of them is getting what they need or expected from a relationship. That may not be scriptural, but it is realistic (as many divorced folks can tell you), and it's one reason the divorce rate for Christians is neck-in-neck with the stats of non-Christians...unrealistic expectations.

If you don't want to be a statistic, you'll need to be sure that you and the other person are on the same page. Which are you looking for? Someone to share your life with? Someone to build a future with? Someone to complete the picture in your mind? Someone to fill the hole left by someone else?

The more realistic you can be with yourself, the better off you and those you become involved with will be. The person you are attracted to might not fit your mold or even want to, and vice versa. Being with them would be setting yourself up to fail. We can talk about walking the Christian line and sticking things out for better/for worse (Don't get me wrong. Marriage is FOREVER for me, which is WHY I'm so very cautious) and being a pious martyr in a bad marriage thing all day long, but at the end of the day, when you are considering marrying someone, the closer you can come to being with someone who suits your personality, desires and lifestyle, the better off you will both be.

Some guys look at an attractive Christian women who loves her family, and immediately see her standing in the kitchen making dinner, snuggling by the fire, etc. But what if, in ADDITION TO THOSE THINGS, that woman is challenged by higher things? What if those higher things are God's calling upon her life? Do you make her choose between living the way she knows she is called to and living YOUR dream with her? What will that ultimately do to her? To your relationship with her? To your relationship with God (knowing you are preventing someone else from fulfilling His call)?

Complicated? Not for a lot of people. For some people...yes. Yes, it is. Take a look at the diverse personalities within this forum alone. Would all of them fit well together just because they are Christian singles of the opposite gender and within the appropriate age range? If you think so, I wish you well in developing a life long relationship with someone.

I'm looking at two people in this forum right now who could have an amazing life together and don't even know it. They may never know it because one of them lacks something on the other person's "list".

*sigh*

Liamson · Oct 16, 2013

Like for instance.... there are probably a great handful of things that I've done in my life and enjoyed doing. But that doesn't mean, I'm going to force someone to learn how to drive a stick, snow ski, surf, skydive, sing in the car, wear a sundress to church, cook Mexican dishes, or whatever else I think my wife should love to do.

Because I don't know her yet. Maybe she is into Parasailing or she is a musician or she writes for a living.

I love Swiss Chalets. I love the big windows, the 2 story design with the large living space. But if I wind up living with a woman on a 36ft boat parked in a Marina, I'm okay with that. If we wind up living on an Alligator farm in Louisiana, thats okay too. If we settle into a nice beach house in Mexico, thats okay. If her parents have a huge property/house and we live there, I might be okay with that.

Unless we are already in love with someone, bringing the picture and trying to impose it on the relationship, is really just baggage.

There are lots of things that I love to do. And there are lots of things that I have never done but, will probably love to do too. To me this is exciting. The possibilities, the adventure, all of the undiscovered XP the world has to offer, is ready to be taken.

To a degree each of us have something of a picture. I suppose this is mine? ^^^^^^^^^

To me it simply looks like the horizon, the future, and until I meet someone and the vision takes a shape and a form, it will stay as it is. Because I want the experience to be between us, for us and with us.

Gary · Oct 16, 2013

[video=metacafe;7507932/garth_brooks_to_make_you_feel_my_love/]http://www.metacafe.com/watch/7507932/garth_brooks_to_make_you_feel_my_love/[/video]

People See the world Differently.

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