Car Guys, wanna help a girl out? ;)

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arwen83

Guest
#1
I have a question, and I know a few of you are handy with the automobiles ;)

I have a question about my transmission oil. Its brown. And I know that means that it needs to get changed. Planning on doing it when I get to my parents in a few weeks, my pa will be helpin me out. In the meantime, I was wondering if a transmission conditioner/treatment would help? Shifting is quite rough right now. If so, which brand would you recommend?

P.S. I have a 2002 Hyundai Elantra Sedan 2.0L
 
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djness

Guest
#2
I'm not a car guy. Is this some clever girl trick to weed out the potential suitors? Cause I think this removed me from being a contender.
 
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danschance

Guest
#3
It is normal for transmission fluid to go from clear to brown with normal use. However, your fluid is a dark brown color and your transmission is acting up. This may indicate your transmission is having problems. Smell the transmission fluid. If it smells burnt (and I suspect it is) you need to have it looked at fairly soon.

Sorry to bring you bad news.
 
Aug 2, 2009
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#4
Is it an automatic or manual transmission? How many miles are on the car (roughly)? Describe what you mean by "shifting is rough" (is it hard to put into gear, is it making grinding noises, is it slipping out of gear, etc..)?
 
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danschance

Guest
#5
It is normal for transmission fluid to go from clear to brown with normal use. However, your fluid is a dark brown color and your transmission is acting up. This may indicate your transmission is having problems. Smell the transmission fluid. If it smells burnt (and I suspect it is) you need to have it looked at fairly soon.


I doubt any conditioner would help either.
Sorry to bring you bad news.
 
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arwen83

Guest
#6
Thanks for the replies.

Zero, its automatic. Over 200,000 (majority of it is highway mileage).

It will get to a certain gear, if I am slowly exellerating around the 2 or 2.5 RPM mark, it will jerk, kind of like it kicks into (or maybe out?) a gear. Not always but it is getting more frequent. After that happens, when I am stopped at a light and begin to excellerate again, it takes FOREVER to pick up speed. I have to push harder on the pedel, then it will get to a certain point and run normally. This will happen at every stop after that jerk happens. The only thing that makes it stop is when I turn off the car, and don't use it for an hour or so, it begins by running properly.
 

Chainhand

Senior Member
Jun 1, 2013
331
21
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#7
If you have to put more power into the transmission to get the same amount out, sounds like that power is turning into friction and cooking your oil as Danschance suggested.

I'm guessing that gear has poor alignment when it meshes. When you pull the oil, look for metal shavings in it. Bad if you see any...
 
Aug 2, 2009
24,599
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#8
Thanks for the replies.

Zero, its automatic. Over 200,000 (majority of it is highway mileage).

It will get to a certain gear, if I am slowly exellerating around the 2 or 2.5 RPM mark, it will jerk, kind of like it kicks into (or maybe out?) a gear. Not always but it is getting more frequent. After that happens, when I am stopped at a light and begin to excellerate again, it takes FOREVER to pick up speed. I have to push harder on the pedel, then it will get to a certain point and run normally. This will happen at every stop after that jerk happens. The only thing that makes it stop is when I turn off the car, and don't use it for an hour or so, it begins by running properly.
It could be this, see 5th one down. https://www.ownersite.com/tsb/tsbs.cfm/2005/HYUNDAI/ELANTRA/

Bulletin No:TSB0740010, [TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Date of Bulletin:[/TD]
[TD]07/09/2008[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Summary Description:

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE HARSH AND/OR DELAYED UPSHIFT OR DOWNSHIFT - GDS ANALYSIS. *PE
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

These are TSB's (technical service bulletins) put out by Hyundai for your particular year and model. If that's what it is, then the dealer might fix it for free. I'm not 100% sure but TSB's usually means that if a customer comes in with that specific issue then it gets fixed for free like if it was a recall. I wish you luck, Arwen. Unfortunately trannys are the one thing I don't know much about when it comes to cars.
 
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S

Shouryu

Guest
#9
I have a question, and I know a few of you are handy with the automobiles ;)

I have a question about my transmission oil. Its brown. And I know that means that it needs to get changed.

P.S. I have a 2002 Hyundai Elantra Sedan 2.0L
Ah. In that case, I recommend that you change the transmission oil at a dealership. Start by giving them the car, and work something out to where they give you new transmission oil, surrounded by a newer transmission, which is installed on a newer car. It sounds expensive, but in the long run, is probably for the best.

Now that we've had a laugh...here's where I sadly say...I wish I was joking.

The way you describe the performance of the car, I'd say your slushbox ('car guy' slang for auto tranny) is practically a LITERAL box of slush. Only it's metal and oil instead of shaved ice and dark cherry syrup.

Look what you did. Now I want a snow cone.

The reason this sounds particularly grim is that changing the tranny oil likely won't improve the performance of the car. If she's taking a long time to get going, and the torque converter isn't keeping the power properly hooked up to the wheels ("it will jerk, kind of like it kicks into (or maybe out?) a gear"), you're looking at major work.

At worst, you will need to completely replace the transmission. This will not be cheap.
At best, you likely need a new torque converter (part of the tranny)...and maybe some additional repair inside the box once they get the box removed and cracked open. This can be almost as expensive as replacing the transmission, depending on price of parts and how much labor will be needed.

I've never had to have one done myself, being a lifelong three-pedal junkie, but I've had four different friends I can recall off the top of my head who had tranny issues on their slushboxes. Two of them replaced their trannies, two replaced torque converters. They ranged from about $900 to $2000 (USD...sorry, don't know the Canadian exchange rate). And THAT is why I sort of cracked the joke...A 2002 Elantra with 200k miles, in pristine condition ('Excellent'), would fetch a maximum of $2300 US. With the mechanical issues your car has, it would be generously rated 'Fair' (mechanical defects are minor and the car is safe to operate), and at best, be worth a maximum of about $1500 US. Your repair could actually cost MORE than the vehicle itself is actually worth.

Some cars are money pits. (I would know - I owned one.) The trick really is knowing when it's actually worth the money to continue investing in keeping your money pit running, or just let the loss be a loss. If you're spending 80-100% of the current value of the car on repairs each year, it's time to let her go (alas, poor MX-6...I knew you well). If you're spending 80-100% of the current value of the car ONCE, and you're fairly certain you can squeeze another 24 months out of the car? That's probably fair.

You kind of have to weigh that against the rest of the car, too...I also own a 12 year old car, but she's mechanically unbeatable. Sure, I spent $1500 for a brand new top last summer...so the first top lasted 11 years! Still cheaper than buying a whole new car. On a car valued at just over $10,000, paying $1500 is well worth it. Next year (maybe sooner!), I'll probably have to replace the motors on the power windows. STILL cheaper than buying a new car. But on the old MX-6, which was worth $1500, I spent $900 on motor mounts and a CV joint...then $150 for electrical issues...then $500 for a wiper motor and power steering repairs...THEN I BLEW THE MOTOR and dropped $1100 on THAT mess (and spent an additional $500 to get a new clutch and machine the flywheel since it was all pulled apart anyway). MON - EE - PIT!!! I was holding out for when I was financially solvent enough to buy a roadster, but if I had been smarter, I would have settled for a more reliable, NEWER used car on which I could have made low payments, instead of dumping tons of money into a lemon to make it last until I could afford big payments.

So, get thee to a mechanic, and get thee an estimate. My gut feeling tells me it's not going to be cheap, and unless your dad (or any of your local, potential suitors) are experienced at wrenching on slushboxes, it's not a job you can do in your driveway. I pray that I am wrong because it really is a sucky choice to have to make, because both choices mean spending significant amounts of money. I really, really, REALLY hope I'm wrong. But the only way to know for sure is to have a pro look at it.

(I hope you have a guy you trust. That's half the battle, in truth...maybe moreso for women. It's sad that some shops are like that, but it is something to watch out for.)
 
M

MidniteWelder

Guest
#10
The easiest and cheapest "at home" thing to do first is:

Not just change the tranny oil but to flush to whole trans oil system with new fluid and change the trans oil filter
The filter should be located within/underneath the trans oil pan.
If the oil in the trans has discolored and smells burnt this is due to it overheating from excess friction which breaks the oil down.
Oil can only withstand a certain amount of heat before it breaks down and its protective properties diminish.
(think of when you cook with butter and put butter in a pan...on low heat it stays yellow...if it gets to hot it turns
...BROWN) :eek:
This heat can also develop if the trans filter from being clogged is not letting enough oil get to the torque converter as well as to the clutch servos which engage and disengage the gears. If the gears are engaging and disengaging due to starving for oil due to a clogged filter not letting oil flow freely...the clutches themselves soon start to glaze which results in slipping.
(if there is oil starvation the trans kicks itself out of gear from loss of hydraulic pressure)
The trans itself only holds a few quarts of fluid while the torque converter hold the majority of fluid often 3 times more than the trans itself. This being the case if the trans oil was drained and only filter changed then buttoned back up...the remaining majority dirty trans oil still in the converter will soon mix with the good oil just put in and you're back to square one.
Hence why its good to start with the system being flushed and a new trans filter, then if any problems persist the next step would be to take it to a garage/mechanic.

-Easiest way to flush the system is to disconnect/unhook one of the trans fluid lines that go to the trans cooler. This can be done at any point in between the trans and the cooler. If there is not a separate cooler often the radiator doubles as the trans cooler. I dont know on your particular vehicle how the system is arranged. Just look for two fluid lines of the same size connected to the trans.
There should be one line coming out of the transmission going to the cooler to cool the heated oil and one coming from the cooler going back to the transmission.
-there is a pump inside the transmission itself which constantly circulates this fluid being pumped out of the trans into the cooler through it and back into the tranny. This happens while it is running even when in park or neutral
-by unhooking one of these lines youve opened(created a break in the circulation of this system. (think of it as simply cutting your garden hose in half right in the middle)

-by opening the circulation of fluid between the trans and cooler you may now flush your trans system by running one end of this line into a drain bucket
-connect the other side of the opened line into a bucket with your clean fresh trans fluid which will be sucked up by the trannys own phenomenal power like magic.

-change your trans filter before continuing to the next step
-now when you start the car the bad fluid will be pumped into one bucket
-and the good fluid will be sucked into the transmission from the other bucket
-continue to do this with the car running until clean fluid starts to come out into the bad fluid bucket
(think of it like if you had a jar with muddy water and you poke a hole in the bottom and keep filling the jar with clean water until clean water comes out)

After this process been completed all the fluid which circulates in the torque converter, servos, gears and clutches will be fresh fluid which will eliminate the possibility of any problems being related to just dirty trans oil.
Therefore if any further problems persist, they may be narrowed down and assessed more effectively.
This has often helped many a car if no other damage has resulted.
A trans flush of this type should be done every 50,000 miles

A synthetic fluid such as Amsoil will resist thermal breakdown and hold its protection and lubricating properties much better than standard petroleum based fluids. Of course this added benefit makes synthetic more expensive but not really considering the fluid holds up better, lasts longer and can help prevent damage which costs money anyway in the long run.
For your scenario of doing a flush...I would use standard cheaper petroleum based fluid until it has been determined if there are any other problems such as possibly a servo having gone bad or a clutch carrier inside the tranny broken due to it popping in and out of gear from lack of fluid or something else.

If your trans works much better and theres no other problems( a certain amount of prayer can help) :)
I would do the same flush and filter change again within the next 1000 miles filling with synthetic fluid this time.
 
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Aug 2, 2009
24,599
4,272
113
#11
It could be this, see 5th one down. https://www.ownersite.com/tsb/tsbs.cfm/2005/HYUNDAI/ELANTRA/

Bulletin No:TSB0740010, [TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Date of Bulletin:[/TD]
[TD]07/09/2008[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Summary Description:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE HARSH AND/OR DELAYED UPSHIFT OR DOWNSHIFT - GDS ANALYSIS. *PE[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

These are TSB's (technical service bulletins) put out by Hyundai for your particular year and model. If that's what it is, then the dealer might fix it for free. I'm not 100% sure but TSB's usually means that if a customer comes in with that specific issue then it gets fixed for free like if it was a recall. I wish you luck, Arwen. Unfortunately trannys are the one thing I don't know much about when it comes to cars.
Arwen, just so you know, that TSB says Control Module in the title. So if your problem is indeed related to this TSB then it is a glitch in the car's computer software that's making the transmission shift harshly or shift late.
 

allaboutlove

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
480
4
18
#12
It sounds to me like the problem isnt just the fluid... trasmission fluid is normally red but dosent take much for it to look brown you could try changin oil but most likely its something wrong with transmission it self.
 
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arwen83

Guest
#13
Arwen, just so you know, that TSB says Control Module in the title. So if your problem is indeed related to this TSB then it is a glitch in the car's computer software that's making the transmission shift harshly or shift late.
The link you gave me is for 2005 not 2002. I check 2002, it doesn't mention any of the problems.
 
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arwen83

Guest
#14
Thanks for all your feedback guys, so to conclude: a conditioner/ treatment fluid won't help in the meantime; a flush/filter change is needed. I checked with a transmission repair/maintenance shop, they said it will cost 170.00 after taxes for filter and flush. Not too bad.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#15
This thread is a reflection of this forum at its best. It's awesome to see folks helping one another like this. :) (Plus, I learned a lot!)

I don't normally rate threads, but this one is getting lots of stars!
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#16
arwenbaggins, take it to a shop, and, see what they say, 200,000 miles is a lot on any HYUNDAI car's engine, I would definitely look into gettin a new used car if it's needing a new transmission.

Interest rates are pretty low for consumers loans now and a used car loan would be pretty manageable. Get a good gas mileage car, like a Fiesta, and you will save in the long run, a Fiesta gets 10mpg better gas mileage than Elantra. Oil is going up so getting a new used car will benefit you in that way.

The Lord leads. Above all else, pray, milady, it's just a car , just a problem The Devil wants to get you down over, don't. And, good news, the Lord wants to grow you more from this situation, just as He says that we will experience 'trials and tribulations' in this life, but we are to count our problems as 'all joy,' not just 'some joy' either, mind you, ALL joy . Keep a positive attitude, keep your eyes focused on Him through this 'stuff' The Devil is wanting to get you down over and He will be greater :)

Just my two cents, arwennian :D
 
Aug 2, 2009
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#17