Courtship...Broken Courtship

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#21
same thing except with amish they just call it courtship and more seems to be at stake than when you dating. Dating you can go out once or twice than never see them again and thats ok, everyone knows its not serious until you are officially engaged...eg got the engagement ring on your finger and a date set for a wedding.

That avoids the heartbreak for most people unless they give their heart away first.
Dont be naive about this...
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
658
351
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#22
I mentioned above there were other things I didn't want to admit that were problems... what were they? Well, for one, and I have friends and relative that would resoundingly testify to this, he was not ready to get married. I may not have been either, but he was a little younger than me and was raised very sheltered so his maturity and life experience weren't as developed as they could have been. Also, there were character flaws that people mentioned, that I defended at the time but now I admit would have been a lot to work through in a marriage. And also as I mentioned, even though he is a Christian and well-versed in the Bible, he wasn't the spiritual leader that I knew I wanted/needed in a husband.
There were obviously lots of warning signs that were ignored.

This often happens when people want something so badly, rationalizing away things that make them feel uneasy.

A story in scripture that I use to remind myself of the need to wait instead of rationalize is 1 Samuel 13:8-14 (For clarity’s sake, I’m not mentioning this story to insinuate that you sinned).

What are some ways that this experience has prepared you for your next courtship?
 

HopeinHim98

Well-known member
Mar 16, 2023
529
416
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#23
There were obviously lots of warning signs that were ignored.

This often happens when people want something so badly, rationalizing away things that make them feel uneasy.

A story in scripture that I use to remind myself of the need to wait instead of rationalize is 1 Samuel 13:8-14 (For clarity’s sake, I’m not mentioning this story to insinuate that you sinned).

What are some ways that this experience has prepared you for your next courtship?
I'd say the biggest thing is making sure I seek God and feel comfortable BEFORE I even get into another courtship. Actually I'd want my parents to know him pretty well and my dad to have plenty of conversations before anything starts.

Another thing that I wish we would've done differently is that he would've come to my family's place to see me more than me going there. Then my family could have seen more and been able to give more educated advice. As it was, it was just easier for me to go to where he lived because I had a lot of other friends and sometimes jobs in the area and I went there anyway.

I honestly don't believe at this point (based on some experiences I had after the breakup) that it's God's will for me to ever get married, but He could change my mind about that. I just leave it in His hands pretty much. If it's His will He'll show me.
 

Sculpt

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2021
1,138
362
83
#25
At the suggestion of a couple members, I decided to share my experience in this area. It's no instruction manual because, (as you can see from the title) it didn't end in marriage, but in tears and heartbreak. I hope someone can learn from the mistakes I made and save themselves some pain! I'm gonna be pretty vulnerable here so bear with me. Also it will end up being two parts probably.

So I was 22 when I realized this young man was interested in me. I was good friends with his family and was staying a couple weeks with them at the time to visit and help on their farm. During that visit, I was more and more attracted to him and was hoping and praying that God would give him wisdom, and to let him ask to court me. I knew I had questions, and some things I didn't agree with his dad about, but I also knew he didn't agree with his dad about everything so I consoled myself that I really didn't know how he felt.

I left their place after a couple weeks and was staying with some other friends for a couple weeks. While I was there, my dad got a letter in the mail from this young man asking permission to court me. I pretty much knew it was coming, and needless to say I was excited. So he and my dad talked a little and daddy gave him permission to come see me at my friends house that wknd. This was all new to both of us, it being both of our first courtships, and we were nervous and excited.

I remember right before our first visit, my friend I was staying with asked me, "So you've prayed about this, right? You're not just doing it because he's the first one to ask?" (which wasn't technically the case, but it was the first official, realistic request) I answered that yes, I'd prayed, but her question plagued me a little cuz I knew I didn't really seek God enough. I consoled myself that this was only a courtship and it wasn't like I'm planning a wedding. This was a time to figure out those things, right?

The first couple months of our courtship went pretty smooth, but something was missing. It wasn't how I imagined it to be. I wanted to marry a strong spiritual leader who was passionate about God, and this young man was not what I'd envisioned. I also was finding myself NOT as attracted to him, and these were both stressful and painful realizations. Finally I took a little time to seek God in prayer and His word about it, and I thought He gave me enough peace to proceed. I soon ended up talking to him about some of my concerns, which was really difficult to do. He listened and things went smooth for awhile.

About 4 months into the courtship, I later found out that he had called my dad and asked if it was okay to move forward into marriage. I was away from home helping a friend that had a baby at the time, and strangely around the same time he called my dad, I had started feeling really uneasy about our relationship. My mom called and asked how I felt about it by now and I shared some of what I was thinking. I mentioned one certain doctrine that concerned me and she advised me to talk with him about it. He, my parents and I all ended up sitting down and talking about it, and that calmed some of my fears because he seemed open enough learn and I was too.

But soon after that began a very rocky period in our courtship. I look back now and realize that since he'd asked about marriage and my dad had said we need more time (unbeknownst to me), he was trying hard to work through all our problems so we could get married. So many little issues came up and when we'd try to work through them, it would drag out and turn into these tiring emotional talks. I was so discouraged and my family was concerned about me. But I held on cuz I was attached to him at this point and I knew it would be really painful to break up.

I mentioned above that I was finding myself less attracted to him. That was something that came and went throughout most of our 10-month courtship, except the last little while. And it did NOT mostly have to do with looks. It was annoying habits and personality traits that I just didn't know if I could live with cuz they bothered me so much.

The worst part lasted about 2 months. And it wasn't all bad at all. We had some very good and meaningful times too. We started thinking seriously about marriage. His dad felt we were getting too close physically and thought we should either slow down or plan to get married, and of course we wanted the latter. (mind you, by being "too close physically", I mean hugs and him putting his arm around me. We never kissed or anything more than that).

But I could not make feel at peace with marriage, much as I prayed and sought counsel from my parents and other Christians. So I had to tell him how I felt, and we ended up "slowing down". (Fewer visits and phone calls, plus being more hands off)

To be continued...
Thanks for sharing your story, HopeInHim98. I was hoping you can fill in some blanks. You wrote:

"I knew I had questions, and some things I didn't agree with his dad about, but I also knew he didn't agree with his dad about everything so I consoled myself that I really didn't know how he felt."

What did you disagree with his father about, and why was it significant?

Also, you wrote, "Anyway, if anyone actually read to the end, I hope you gleaned something." What do you think anyone should get from your story? What do you think the lesson(s) is?
 

HopeinHim98

Well-known member
Mar 16, 2023
529
416
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#26
Thanks for sharing your story, HopeInHim98. I was hoping you can fill in some blanks. You wrote:

"I knew I had questions, and some things I didn't agree with his dad about, but I also knew he didn't agree with his dad about everything so I consoled myself that I really didn't know how he felt."

What did you disagree with his father about, and why was it significant?

Also, you wrote, "Anyway, if anyone actually read to the end, I hope you gleaned something." What do you think anyone should get from your story? What do you think the lesson(s) is?
To your first question, his family was heavily influenced by the Seventh Day Adventists, and although there were some doctrines I agreed with, some I definitely did not.

What I mainly hope other young people can glean is to learn from my mistake of going ahead before really having peace about it, and trying to rationalize any red flags you see. To seek the Lord, and counsel from older godly people. Yes, you could say well, at least you got out of it if you didn't think it would be a good marriage. But I could've saved myself so much heartbreak and painful memories. Get what I mean?
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
658
351
63
#28
I honestly don't believe at this point (based on some experiences I had after the breakup) that it's God's will for me to ever get married, but He could change my mind about that. I just leave it in His hands pretty much. If it's His will He'll show me.
Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it (Proverbs 4:23).
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,160
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#29
I was going to ask the doctrinal issue. I wouldn't say SDAs can't be saved or anything like that, but I wouldn't have dated or married one, not one that stayed SDA in their thinking. When I was overseas, an English-speaking SDA invited me to church once. I did go, but I didn't date her. The doctrinal background is too different. Having agreement on matters of faith is a plus.

I'm a middle aged married man. I found your courtship 'system' interesting. Does your dad require men ask permission of you to court you and this young man found out about it and asked him, or are you both from a 'subculture' that does courting this way? I would like something like this when it comes time for my daughters to find someone, but other people in society have to play by those rules, or I suppose I could just train my daughters to tell young men to ask my permission. It would be a way of weeding out some kinds of guys.

With our kids, we tell them if they are too young to marry, they are too young to date. But we did kind of get flexible on that with letting our daughters go to prom. A boy who asked my daughter liked her because they are both Christians. He comes to a Bible study we hosts, and is the one who helped bring the young people, some of them seekers, who attend. They aren't officially dating, but they like each other. My oldest. a son, isn't looking for a wife right now and isn't dating anyone.

If it were me, I would want to be really sure before the engagement, before her father agreed to give her to me in marriage. If I got that far, I wasn't going to go back. So I prayed through before I got to that stage. In my case, in prayer it seemed like I was getting encouragement to marry and a bit of rebuke for being slow to believe it.

I remember I did take a job once that I didn't have peace about and I didn't pray about because I kind of felt concerned God might direct me not to take it. I really learned from that experience and learned not to make decisions that were not fully submitted to the Lord.

That being said, a little hesitance or nerves about getting married isn't that uncommon, and it doesn't mean the marriage won't work out. I had uncertainty, but I prayed until I was certain before proposing. I submitted my plan to propose to the Lord, reminded Him of all the reasons I believed he wanted us to marry, and I told Him I was going to propose and if He didn't want me to to direct me otherwise or stop me. I had complete peace after that. I felt 100% sure about it. There were obstacles to get there, but I knew that I wanted to marry.
 

HopeinHim98

Well-known member
Mar 16, 2023
529
416
63
#30
I was going to ask the doctrinal issue. I wouldn't say SDAs can't be saved or anything like that, but I wouldn't have dated or married one, not one that stayed SDA in their thinking. When I was overseas, an English-speaking SDA invited me to church once. I did go, but I didn't date her. The doctrinal background is too different. Having agreement on matters of faith is a plus.

I'm a middle aged married man. I found your courtship 'system' interesting. Does your dad require men ask permission of you to court you and this young man found out about it and asked him, or are you both from a 'subculture' that does courting this way? I would like something like this when it comes time for my daughters to find someone, but other people in society have to play by those rules, or I suppose I could just train my daughters to tell young men to ask my permission. It would be a way of weeding out some kinds of guys.

With our kids, we tell them if they are too young to marry, they are too young to date. But we did kind of get flexible on that with letting our daughters go to prom. A boy who asked my daughter liked her because they are both Christians. He comes to a Bible study we hosts, and is the one who helped bring the young people, some of them seekers, who attend. They aren't officially dating, but they like each other. My oldest. a son, isn't looking for a wife right now and isn't dating anyone.

If it were me, I would want to be really sure before the engagement, before her father agreed to give her to me in marriage. If I got that far, I wasn't going to go back. So I prayed through before I got to that stage. In my case, in prayer it seemed like I was getting encouragement to marry and a bit of rebuke for being slow to believe it.

I remember I did take a job once that I didn't have peace about and I didn't pray about because I kind of felt concerned God might direct me not to take it. I really learned from that experience and learned not to make decisions that were not fully submitted to the Lord.

That being said, a little hesitance or nerves about getting married isn't that uncommon, and it doesn't mean the marriage won't work out. I had uncertainty, but I prayed until I was certain before proposing. I submitted my plan to propose to the Lord, reminded Him of all the reasons I believed he wanted us to marry, and I told Him I was going to propose and if He didn't want me to to direct me otherwise or stop me. I had complete peace after that. I felt 100% sure about it. There were obstacles to get there, but I knew that I wanted to marry.
Thanks for sharing, that was interesting. I do realize it's not uncommon to get cold feet when you're about to get married. But as much as I sought the Lord about it I'm quite sure He would have revealed to me if it was just me.

Yes my dad would require the young man to come to him for permission to begin a courtship. I know it's counter-culture, but I just really am glad for that authority in my life. My parents are wiser and have obviously been through more life than me so it help to have the guy filter through them. Even though he did give permission to this guy and it still didn't work out, there have been other guys that I look back and am thankful daddy didn't allow it lol! Even though one of them at the time I wished would have worked out, I don't now.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,884
29,274
113
#31
Very nice!

It's one of my favorites out of the many that you have made.
Thank you; I am still working on it .:). I tried counting how many I have designed
this year and came up with the number 58. Today is day #129 of the year. Hmmm.
That is close to one every other day. Last year I designed 160 over about 41 weeks.



1 Timothy 5:1-2
:)
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
658
351
63
#32
Thank you; I am still working on it .:). I tried counting how many I have designed
this year and came up with the number 58. Today is day #129 of the year. Hmmm.
That is close to one every other day. Last year I designed 160 over about 41 weeks.



1 Timothy 5:1-2
:)
Love the stats!

Your work on these panels is very much appreciated.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,884
29,274
113
#33
Love the stats!

Your work on these panels is very much appreciated.
Thank you once again! Heh, I can give you some more stats .:unsure:(y):giggle:

I started designing these panels just over five years ago.

In my templates folder, I have 2,483 Files, with 12 sub-Folders

In my templates items folder, I have 1,719 Files

In my backgrounds folder, I have 904 Files

In my Christos folder, I have 1,215 Files

In my Equus folder, I have 378 Files

In my Frames and Borders folder, I have 2,012 Files (there are also two copies of each panel here
in the beginning stages, named by date started, which I move to the templates folder as it nears
completion, and is renamed by verse citation. There are three copies of each panel in the Templates
folder; I lost some last summer when my new-ish laptop needed to have the hard drive replaced)


In my Florals folder, I have 1,034 Files

In my Human Elements folder, I have 3,055 Files

In my Saved Pictures folder I have 2,763 Files, 2 Folders

In my CC folder I have 373 Files

In my Fonts folder, I have 633 Files

All of these are in an Images Folder, with 22,123 Files, 57 sub-Folders

Most of what I design with these days comes out of the folders "Saved Pictures" and "Human Elements."
A lot of the older ephemera I saved to collage with are too small to work with. They're in the other folders.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#34
I think forgive yourself for having ideals and expectations. I think its better to have no expectations going into many things and to be pleasantly surprised than be constantly disappointed.
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
658
351
63
#35
I think forgive yourself for having ideals and expectations. I think its better to have no expectations going into many things and to be pleasantly surprised than be constantly disappointed.
What type of expectations do you believe a Christian woman should have going into a marriage?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#36
What type of expectations do you believe a Christian woman should have going into a marriage?
well only what they vow but the man has expectations as well

you can make your own vows as long as you both agree on what they are for each other.

Im not sure if they have to be exactly the same as each other.

Pauls expectation is that they need to be faithful to each other and God. No good marrying an infidel.
Also to love and cherish each other, from what I recall from scripture.

Though what some mean by 'love and cherish' maybe they dont know, especially 'cherish' cos it seems many people dont even know what that words means and have to look it up in the dictionary.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#37
You also have to look up the job description for 'husband' and 'wife' its not 'mistress' or 'master' thats a different kind of relationship.
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
658
351
63
#38
You also have to look up the job description for 'husband' and 'wife' its not 'mistress' or 'master' thats a different kind of relationship.
This “job description” works quite well.

For in the same way the holy women who hoped in God long ago adorned themselves by being subject to their husbands, like Sarah who obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. You become her children when you do what is good and have no fear in doing so (1 Peter 3:5-6).
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
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#39
This “job description” works quite well.

For in the same way the holy women who hoped in God long ago adorned themselves by being subject to their husbands, like Sarah who obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. You become her children when you do what is good and have no fear in doing so (1 Peter 3:5-6).
But then she kicked Hagar out of the home when she had his baby right.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
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#40
I wonder what Hagar called Abraham....