Do Support Groups and Resources Really Help, or Do They Just Make People Worse?

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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,934
4,573
113
#1
Hey Everyone,

I've been wondering about this for a while. Here in the Singles Forum, we often talk about the ways we try to work on ourselves before meeting the right person.

Since I often start discussions about what people may be struggling with, I've always felt it was only fair to be transparent about my own struggles. All my life, I have pretty much always fought with disordered eating. I've never been officially diagnosed with an eating disorder because the doctors said my symptoms weren't "bad enough," or at least don't meet the standards it apparently takes to have a "full-blown" "condition."

Over the years, I have sought several paths to stay focused and healthy, and for a while I was researching internet resources that focused on disordered eating. I was basically looking for online communities that talk about the issues at hand and support each other regularly.

What I found instead (at least in my opinion) was a cesspool of communities devoted to not only perpetrating the disordered behavior, but also pushing its participants to become more and more dangerously emaciated. For instance, the anorexia and bulimia "help" groups that punished members for eating more than 500 calories a day, required regular weigh-ins, and blocked anyone who wasn't losing weight or losing it fast enough.

Even worse, members talked about all their "tricks" for reducing hunger, minimizing calorie intake, and the "most effective" means of purging if you actually happened to eat something.

Even on legit channels for things like the keto diet, the channel host was high-fiving people in the livestream who said they had gone 5 days without food.

Now I am not trying to knock any kind of diet anyone might have found that works for them, as I do think that nutrition is highly individual, but the disturbing thing to me about trends such as intermittent fasting is that no one is talking about the fact that those with disordered eating will use this to hide the fact that they are starving themselves. It's even worse when you put a religious spin on it.

A while back, I was going through an extremely rough time and thought to myself, "What better time to fast and pray, as that's what we're always told to do!" I would go without eating until about 5 PM everyday, then have some kind of small scraps of food. I kept telling myself that I was "getting closer to God." After a few weeks, I believe the Holy Spirit clearly said to me, "(Seoul,) you. are. starving. yourself," and, out of conviction, I had to quit.

What I'm trying to say is that I found most "support" places to be a lot like the American prison system -- just as a criminal learns to become a better or more sophisticated criminal in prison, someone like me only learned more destructive habits from such groups, even if that wasn't the intention.

And so I was wondering, is it like this for others as well?

* For anyone who struggles with something, particular addictions: drugs, alcohol, nicotine, shopping, gambling, video games -- do you find that "support" resources really help -- or does it just mean finding new ways of supporting your addiction?

* Do you go to places or resources hoping to find plans for recovery, but really only learn other ways to continue (or worsen) your behavior?

* If so, what real help is out there, and do you have any suggestions as to where to find it? What has and has not worked for you, and what would you suggest for others?

As a single Christian who often talks with other single Christians about what we must do to prepare ourselves to meet a future spouse, I am very interested in how other people are coping, or better yet, improving with their issues, and I am hoping that people will share some things that have really worked.

Thank you very much for your testimony and time -- looking forward to hearing from you!
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,702
8,042
113
#2
I tried joining a chocoholics group but that just made it worse. Chocolate was all they talked about! o_O

Okay, serious...

I don't have any personal experience with such things. I did however read The Cracker Factory, a based-on-real-life story about a housewife who became an alcoholic, her husband who didn't want anything to do with the problem, a few hospital stays and eventually an alcoholics anonymous group with tough love and some tools that worked. I recommend this book (or movie) to anybody dealing with any addiction, not just alcoholics. The principles - dealing with addiction on your own, dealing with family that doesn't care or punishes you, trying "official" medical avenues, etc. - seem to be applicable for many addictions.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,934
4,573
113
#3
I tried joining a chocoholics group but that just made it worse. Chocolate was all they talked about! o_O
I think this is actually a very valid point, Lynx.

How can anyone get better if they are surrounded by constant reminders of the problem?

But yet at the same time, how can the problem be mentioned and addressed just enough to help and not to tantalize?
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#4
I have not been in any addiction support groups, but I have been in various in-person or online health-related support groups either in the past or now and I generally find them helpful. One support group had a medical professional speaker at each monthly meeting to give a presentation. However, in another support group, the people had more severe cases when compared to my own, so I stopped going. I also like contributing if others have questions. Although I do not consider Reddit groups to be support groups really, I also find them helpful. I personally do not know anyone in addiction support groups, though I believe some of them will benefit from this by being held accountable.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
3,617
2,834
113
#5
A while back I tried some depression message boards. As far as myself, personally, I didn't find them incredibly helpful. Not long term. It seemed to give me a slight boost, enough that it didn't take long to feel I needed it. But I did see many others that were being helped.
I noticed a cycle where some would struggle and others would help, then it would switch and the one that was helping last week needed the help this week.

To a degree I get the "how can anyone get better if..." statement, but typically these things are on their minds often already. People go to such things Because it's always at the forefront of their minds and they are turning to others to learn how to cope or heal.
And who better to teach that than someone who has already learned it from experience?

Or spouses may turn to these sites because their spouse is suffering and they are unable to understand. So a husband may have depression and the wife is clueless as to what to do as she can't relate. He may not be able to communicate it clearly, either the effect of the depression, embarrassment or something else. So she can go on these boards and learn from others and understand in ways just reading medical explanations can't get across.
And perhaps even meet another spouse thats been through it and can offer experienced advice.

And not everyone can afford counseling. So the option is suffer alone, and it will constantly be on their mind as they have no outlet, or find others who understand and can help.

But as in all things, if owner or moderators aren't doing their jobs, or worse yet, feeding the problem, that's on that individual, not on all support groups.

So, if ran properly, such things can be a help. For some it's a good long term help, for others, like myself, it helped me in the short term to see others with similar problems. It made me feel less alone, even though I didn't get to know anyone. And I got to offer help to a few others.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,458
7,168
113
#6
huh I dont really see a singles group as a support group so that people can find a spouse..rather its to enjoy being single and to fellowship with others (its not an addiction!)

Addicts groups can be a crutch though I am supoosing people feel less alone in them. But still they can be destructive. You want to hang out with healthy people who have overcome rather than being dragged down yourself.

I was listening to this audiobook about Carrie Fisher (of star wars fame) and it was saying she had a dual diagnoisis of bipolar disorder and drug addiction. She nearly ODed on heroin and had to have her stomach pumped at one point. Apparently she did go to NA (narcotics anonymous groups) and spent time in rehabs and hospitals. She never really got off the drugs as at the time of her death she was STILL using cocaine and opiates. Many of her friends were also addicts and they didnt really do much to intervene.
Plus as she was wealthy it was just easy for her to get drugs.

She was quite open about her addiction and mental illness diagnoses, which at least gets it out in the open, but, it also made her vulnerable because people wanted to emulate her and also fed her addiction even more. not saying support groups always do this, but some of them are just people bragging about their relapses. If you hang round any junkie you will most probably hear boasting about their trips and benders.

while she did her best to help others (she took in addicts who were supoosed to be recovering in her own home) some of the therapists she had had vested interest in keeping her and others on drugs. She was actually paid quite a bit of money to house one but her female guest later died of overdose when the therapist gave her marijuana as a 'lesser drug' to wean her off the harder class A ones. And that case went to court with Carrie being implicated even though she didnt know her therapist had unorthodox treatment method for that guest.
 

EnglishChick

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2021
673
349
63
41
England UK
#7
Hey Everyone,

I've been wondering about this for a while. Here in the Singles Forum, we often talk about the ways we try to work on ourselves before meeting the right person.

Since I often start discussions about what people may be struggling with, I've always felt it was only fair to be transparent about my own struggles. All my life, I have pretty much always fought with disordered eating. I've never been officially diagnosed with an eating disorder because the doctors said my symptoms weren't "bad enough," or at least don't meet the standards it apparently takes to have a "full-blown" "condition."

Over the years, I have sought several paths to stay focused and healthy, and for a while I was researching internet resources that focused on disordered eating. I was basically looking for online communities that talk about the issues at hand and support each other regularly.

What I found instead (at least in my opinion) was a cesspool of communities devoted to not only perpetrating the disordered behavior, but also pushing its participants to become more and more dangerously emaciated. For instance, the anorexia and bulimia "help" groups that punished members for eating more than 500 calories a day, required regular weigh-ins, and blocked anyone who wasn't losing weight or losing it fast enough.

Even worse, members talked about all their "tricks" for reducing hunger, minimizing calorie intake, and the "most effective" means of purging if you actually happened to eat something.

Even on legit channels for things like the keto diet, the channel host was high-fiving people in the livestream who said they had gone 5 days without food.

Now I am not trying to knock any kind of diet anyone might have found that works for them, as I do think that nutrition is highly individual, but the disturbing thing to me about trends such as intermittent fasting is that no one is talking about the fact that those with disordered eating will use this to hide the fact that they are starving themselves. It's even worse when you put a religious spin on it.

A while back, I was going through an extremely rough time and thought to myself, "What better time to fast and pray, as that's what we're always told to do!" I would go without eating until about 5 PM everyday, then have some kind of small scraps of food. I kept telling myself that I was "getting closer to God." After a few weeks, I believe the Holy Spirit clearly said to me, "(Seoul,) you. are. starving. yourself," and, out of conviction, I had to quit.

What I'm trying to say is that I found most "support" places to be a lot like the American prison system -- just as a criminal learns to become a better or more sophisticated criminal in prison, someone like me only learned more destructive habits from such groups, even if that wasn't the intention.

And so I was wondering, is it like this for others as well?

* For anyone who struggles with something, particular addictions: drugs, alcohol, nicotine, shopping, gambling, video games -- do you find that "support" resources really help -- or does it just mean finding new ways of supporting your addiction?

* Do you go to places or resources hoping to find plans for recovery, but really only learn other ways to continue (or worsen) your behavior?

* If so, what real help is out there, and do you have any suggestions as to where to find it? What has and has not worked for you, and what would you suggest for others?

As a single Christian who often talks with other single Christians about what we must do to prepare ourselves to meet a future spouse, I am very interested in how other people are coping, or better yet, improving with their issues, and I am hoping that people will share some things that have really worked.

Thank you very much for your testimony and time -- looking forward to hearing from you!
I found Overeaters Anonymous very helpful for my issues with bingeing and purgeing. we also have anorexic s who have been helped by OA. It is about recovery and not based on triggering each other. It s worth going on their website time we if there is an in person or online fellowship near you
 

love_comes_softly

Well-known member
Feb 13, 2019
768
822
93
#8
I think it really depends on the person.

Some people need to be able to talk about issues they are having while others need to forgot about it.

Some people want to be comforted in knowing they aren’t alone, while others don’t even want to acknowledge the issue.

I think support groups do help some types of people, while they make it worse for others. I’m sure there are a group of people that they don’t help or hurt.

Then, I think it depends on the issue or topic too.

For me personally, I’m too private a person to share with strangers and even some people I know, but I’m very much someone that can and will learn from others. I think I’d be more apt to read about situations that I would to join a group.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,458
7,168
113
#9
heres a book that discusses the issue

12 Steps to destruction: Codependency Recovery Heresies by Deidre and Martin Bobgan

My thoughts are its simpler and quicker to tell God all your worries and He can handle it, but for everyone else they may need to go through 12 steps. (and it takes much much longer...going to meetings etc when you could just go to church and be learning the Bible)

The founder of AA (alcoholics anonymous) wrote that people needed a 'spiritual awakenening' or to 'find God as they understand Him' but problem with that is a lot of people dont understand God...and what they think of God may not be the God who sent his only son to save us.

While it may help people get sober in the short term what tends to happen is people become 'dry drunks' and then convince themselves they will always be alcoholics but are just staying sober for the time being. They still have the mindset that they are an addict and thus become afraid every day that they will relapse. So even if they are not using they are not actually FREE of addiction. They always focusing on what they dont have.
 

MatthewWestfieldUK

Well-known member
May 13, 2021
871
498
63
#10
I think you ask an important question. The idea of help often comes with with a lot of challenges. I found having tried talking to a counsellors that you either get forceful pushing into a direction or the connection becomes too personal.

It is hard to find those who just want to be friends and support you in the individual way you might need.

Websites and online influencers seem to be many, but ultimately there is always a charge involved.

Removal of guilt was the biggest thing I gained by talking to Christians. It allowed me to start to think about next steps.
But I would encourage others to find somebody who is willing to talk and be friendly rather than advise.

Answers in within us.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,458
7,168
113
#11
I was thinking on this because its not uncommon that women may suffer from an eating disorder..I have known many that have and the worse thing is they are constantly thinking about food all the time simply cos they are hungry and starving, but nothing ever satisfies. When they do eat a meal, they complain about it and dont enjoy it. Ive heard women cry over cake, while stuffing themselves with it and then saying they shouldnt eat it.

?! it is crazy making.

What I learned is that eating for many is comfort eating. I am not sure what the answer is.
I had a friend who was anorexic/bulimic and alcoholic. But beyond all the disordered eating and drinking was really a feeling that she was disappointing her parents who were divorced and she didnt have a good relationship with them.

another friend I know had an out of wedlock baby she had to give up, and yet another had a dad who abandoned her.

Food is a source of nourishment and I think its natural to turn to food for comfort...but as a way to self-soothe it can become a drug.

I think if you treat healthy food as your medicine and have a balanced diet it should be fine. What the diet is may be unique to you. The chinese way of eating has worked for centuries (based on rice, fresh veges, small portions of meat, cooked mostly in wok) and few people starve or become obese on that diet/cuisine.


Other people I know through lack of resources can only eat one meal a day, and they can only access fast food or processed food, and so lack vitamins and nourishement. It was found that nzers lack certain minerals in their diet, and acids like folate and selenium, because some people dont eat seafood,(or seaweed) and so the govt had to make a law to ADD folic acid to bread.

they also were talking about putting tax on sugar and banning sugary drinks in schools, and then there was something about heart disease and diabetes rates, though I think heart disease isnt so much andiet thing as more of a symptom of workaholism. However because fresh food is expensive (why should ther be tax on food? why does organic cost so much more? ) generally people have substandard diets...and then. get so hungry cos their main meal doesnt satisfy they resort to snacking.

anyway. Im thinking maybe dont join a group that has an adverse relationship with food. Maybe join a group that celebrates cuisine? after all doesnt the Bible say, whatever you do, whatever you eat and drink do it for Gods glory?

or eat with thanksgiving? Then this healthy relationship with food might rub off on you.
 

Sculpt

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2021
1,004
309
83
#12
What I found instead (at least in my opinion) was a cesspool of communities devoted to not only perpetrating the disordered behavior, but also pushing its participants to become more and more dangerously emaciated. For instance, the anorexia and bulimia "help" groups that punished members for eating more than 500 calories a day, required regular weigh-ins, and blocked anyone who wasn't losing weight or losing it fast enough.
What the?!!!! That's so horrible to hear. It's like the analogy you said about learning from other prison inmates. Wow.

I'm shocked. But also not surprised. I guess it's up to the individual to get away from places that aren't really beneficial.


As a single Christian who often talks with other single Christians about what we must do to prepare ourselves to meet a future spouse, I am very interested in how other people are coping, or better yet, improving with their issues, and I am hoping that people will share some things that have really worked.

Thank you very much for your testimony and time -- looking forward to hearing from you!
Preach it, Sister. "The things we do for love", right? I'll always try to take something away from "failures". Just natural for me. The tricky part is what you don't know, or putting any kind of weight on actions or opinions of others that might not only be worthless, but might even be evil. I know a Orthodox priest personally who laughed when I sarcastically asked him if he "thought everything that happened was spiritual warfare". He was laughing because he thought it was, and I was a fool to think it wasn't. I'd just say, you have to keep in mind there's somethings you have to let go and move on.

Improve yourself, for sure. But you have to take the Lord's peace now. Everything is fine right now.
 
Aug 2, 2009
24,561
4,255
113
#13
I don't belong to any real-life support groups, just a few on facebook. I've found that they're good for those times when you just need to feel that somebody cares and can relate to what you're struggling with.
 
Aug 2, 2009
24,561
4,255
113
#14
Hey Everyone,

I've been wondering about this for a while. Here in the Singles Forum, we often talk about the ways we try to work on ourselves before meeting the right person.

Since I often start discussions about what people may be struggling with, I've always felt it was only fair to be transparent about my own struggles. All my life, I have pretty much always fought with disordered eating. I've never been officially diagnosed with an eating disorder because the doctors said my symptoms weren't "bad enough," or at least don't meet the standards it apparently takes to have a "full-blown" "condition."

Over the years, I have sought several paths to stay focused and healthy, and for a while I was researching internet resources that focused on disordered eating. I was basically looking for online communities that talk about the issues at hand and support each other regularly.

What I found instead (at least in my opinion) was a cesspool of communities devoted to not only perpetrating the disordered behavior, but also pushing its participants to become more and more dangerously emaciated. For instance, the anorexia and bulimia "help" groups that punished members for eating more than 500 calories a day, required regular weigh-ins, and blocked anyone who wasn't losing weight or losing it fast enough.

Even worse, members talked about all their "tricks" for reducing hunger, minimizing calorie intake, and the "most effective" means of purging if you actually happened to eat something.

Even on legit channels for things like the keto diet, the channel host was high-fiving people in the livestream who said they had gone 5 days without food.

Now I am not trying to knock any kind of diet anyone might have found that works for them, as I do think that nutrition is highly individual, but the disturbing thing to me about trends such as intermittent fasting is that no one is talking about the fact that those with disordered eating will use this to hide the fact that they are starving themselves. It's even worse when you put a religious spin on it.

A while back, I was going through an extremely rough time and thought to myself, "What better time to fast and pray, as that's what we're always told to do!" I would go without eating until about 5 PM everyday, then have some kind of small scraps of food. I kept telling myself that I was "getting closer to God." After a few weeks, I believe the Holy Spirit clearly said to me, "(Seoul,) you. are. starving. yourself," and, out of conviction, I had to quit.

What I'm trying to say is that I found most "support" places to be a lot like the American prison system -- just as a criminal learns to become a better or more sophisticated criminal in prison, someone like me only learned more destructive habits from such groups, even if that wasn't the intention.

And so I was wondering, is it like this for others as well?

* For anyone who struggles with something, particular addictions: drugs, alcohol, nicotine, shopping, gambling, video games -- do you find that "support" resources really help -- or does it just mean finding new ways of supporting your addiction?

* Do you go to places or resources hoping to find plans for recovery, but really only learn other ways to continue (or worsen) your behavior?

* If so, what real help is out there, and do you have any suggestions as to where to find it? What has and has not worked for you, and what would you suggest for others?

As a single Christian who often talks with other single Christians about what we must do to prepare ourselves to meet a future spouse, I am very interested in how other people are coping, or better yet, improving with their issues, and I am hoping that people will share some things that have really worked.

Thank you very much for your testimony and time -- looking forward to hearing from you!
I don't belong to any real-life support groups, just some facebook ones. I've found that they're good for those times when you just need to feel that somebody cares and can relate to what you're struggling with.
 

17Bees

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2016
1,360
798
113
#15
I don't belong to any real-life support groups, just some facebook ones. I've found that they're good for those times when you just need to feel that somebody cares and can relate to what you're struggling with.
And how does that make you feel?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,458
7,168
113
#16
Just to add on food
I dont know if your church does community meals but if they do then get involved and help feed the hungry. You will also get a decent meal yourself. Volunteer as a kitchen hand or server and i think it will take your mind of your own troubles...the people that turn up (homeless, poor, struggling ) may not have eaten a hot meal for DAYS. They are not likely to be deliberately starving themselves. Then give thanks.
 

EnglishChick

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2021
673
349
63
41
England UK
#17
I was thinking on this because its not uncommon that women may suffer from an eating disorder..I have known many that have and the worse thing is they are constantly thinking about food all the time simply cos they are hungry and starving, but nothing ever satisfies. When they do eat a meal, they complain about it and dont enjoy it. Ive heard women cry over cake, while stuffing themselves with it and then saying they shouldnt eat it.

?! it is crazy making.

What I learned is that eating for many is comfort eating. I am not sure what the answer is.
I had a friend who was anorexic/bulimic and alcoholic. But beyond all the disordered eating and drinking was really a feeling that she was disappointing her parents who were divorced and she didnt have a good relationship with them.

another friend I know had an out of wedlock baby she had to give up, and yet another had a dad who abandoned her.

Food is a source of nourishment and I think its natural to turn to food for comfort...but as a way to self-soothe it can become a drug.

I think if you treat healthy food as your medicine and have a balanced diet it should be fine. What the diet is may be unique to you. The chinese way of eating has worked for centuries (based on rice, fresh veges, small portions of meat, cooked mostly in wok) and few people starve or become obese on that diet/cuisine.


Other people I know through lack of resources can only eat one meal a day, and they can only access fast food or processed food, and so lack vitamins and nourishement. It was found that nzers lack certain minerals in their diet, and acids like folate and selenium, because some people dont eat seafood,(or seaweed) and so the govt had to make a law to ADD folic acid to bread.

they also were talking about putting tax on sugar and banning sugary drinks in schools, and then there was something about heart disease and diabetes rates, though I think heart disease isnt so much andiet thing as more of a symptom of workaholism. However because fresh food is expensive (why should ther be tax on food? why does organic cost so much more? ) generally people have substandard diets...and then. get so hungry cos their main meal doesnt satisfy they resort to snacking.

anyway. Im thinking maybe dont join a group that has an adverse relationship with food. Maybe join a group that celebrates cuisine? after all doesnt the Bible say, whatever you do, whatever you eat and drink do it for Gods glory?

or eat with thanksgiving? Then this healthy relationship with food might rub off on you.
yeah there's a root to it. I think for me it was being born into an abusive a nd chaotic home . It started from a v young age for me.

therapy is so helpful and God often uses good therapy mightily but not everyone can access it. I've been fortunate in that I also had trauma therapy with a wonderful Christian who had been trained for over 30 years and was an abuse survivor themselves
 

Sculpt

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2021
1,004
309
83
#19
heres a book that discusses the issue

12 Steps to destruction: Codependency Recovery Heresies by Deidre and Martin Bobgan

My thoughts are its simpler and quicker to tell God all your worries and He can handle it, but for everyone else they may need to go through 12 steps. (and it takes much much longer...going to meetings etc when you could just go to church and be learning the Bible)

The founder of AA (alcoholics anonymous) wrote that people needed a 'spiritual awakenening' or to 'find God as they understand Him' but problem with that is a lot of people dont understand God...and what they think of God may not be the God who sent his only son to save us.

While it may help people get sober in the short term what tends to happen is people become 'dry drunks' and then convince themselves they will always be alcoholics but are just staying sober for the time being. They still have the mindset that they are an addict and thus become afraid every day that they will relapse. So even if they are not using they are not actually FREE of addiction. They always focusing on what they dont have.
Cool! I'd love to talk a little about the book. One of my best friends 'is an alcoholic'. There's, let's say theological, questions regarding calling yourself an alcoholic, primarily in the sense of not being free. But then we call ourselves sinners who need a savior... I kind of think the real point is depending on God for sobriety (or whatever issue), with the work that goes with it. Lanolin, did you read 12 Steps to destruction: Codependency Recovery Heresies by Deidre and Martin Bobgan? What did the book have to say?
 

Sculpt

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2021
1,004
309
83
#20
Now I am not trying to knock any kind of diet anyone might have found that works for them, as I do think that nutrition is highly individual, but the disturbing thing to me about trends such as intermittent fasting is that no one is talking about the fact that those with disordered eating will use this to hide the fact that they are starving themselves. It's even worse when you put a religious spin on it.

A while back, I was going through an extremely rough time and thought to myself, "What better time to fast and pray, as that's what we're always told to do!" I would go without eating until about 5 PM everyday, then have some kind of small scraps of food. I kept telling myself that I was "getting closer to God." After a few weeks, I believe the Holy Spirit clearly said to me, "(Seoul,) you. are. starving. yourself," and, out of conviction, I had to quit.
I tell you, I knew about anorexia and bulimia on a base level... I had some courses in college and was an avid NPR listener...

But then I saw this documentary... and I don't recall the name, but it was in a treatment center with interviews with the young ladies who were struggling to literally survive. I mean they were at death's door. The thing that hit me like a ton of bricks was the voices in their heads telling them they were fat and no good, torturing them. I'm welling up just thinking about it. I said to myself, this is possession! You can call it schizophrenia, but as I recall, the doc never said they were diagnosed nor being treated for schizophrenia. And even if they were, what the voices were saying was what seemed specifically demonic to me. I was like, she needs Christ's deliverance and an exorcism immediately. As I recall, that young lady died.