Does Our Society Work Marriage-Wise?

[Ancilla]

Kids are sleeping together as soon as they hit puberty (or earlier) anyway, lowering marriage ages isnt going to do anything about that. And if a person is a christian and can't wait and control their hormones until they reach marriageable age which is 17/18, there's something wrong with them.

You're so right. The way that I see it is that someone either has the stength to abstain or they don't. And you know, if one has a hard time controling themselves, it's not like getting married will some how "fix" that just because one can then have sex with their spouse.

The bottom line is, our society is not set up for people to become financilly independent at a young age. To make enough money to support a family requires a decent paying job, and these days that all too often requires years of education or aprenticeship or experience. I mean, it's like there's there different ways to get to that well paying job, but they all seem to be time consuming. I know that young men can often make decent money with physical labour but can they do that for the rest of their lives? I mean, some can. They do the physcial stuff when they're young and then they do more management stuff when they're older. But really, if a guy is going to get married he just doesn't need to be making good money now, he has to have a plan of how he'll make enough for the long run. He also, of course, needs to show that he can manage money.

See, there is kind of a general trend that the older someone is when they get married the more stable the marriage will be. And, generally speaking, children who are born to older parents do better. But don't get me wrong. There are disadvantages to waiting to have kids. But the way that I see it, is if I value God's gifts of marriage and children, then I should choose the most opportune time in my life to have those things in order to give them my best. In the age of high divorce rate and low marital satisfaction, I want to do everything I can to make sure that I don't end up as another divorce statistic. And a big part of that for me was to get my education and career established before I enter into marriage. I know a lot of people who married while still in universtiy and that's fine for them, but I couldn't have handled that.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's like a cake in the oven. Don't take the cake out of the oven too soon just because you're hungry.

 

[Ancilla]

Oh, and it's really not cool, but sociologists are now talking about the modern phenomenon of the "starter marriage" where one marries young with high expectations and ideals but then can't make it work when reality hits. So, they get divorced and take what they've learned later into a more stable marriage (or else they just make the same mistakes over again, or they decide that marriage is more trouble than it's worth and they just have various cohabiting relationships for the rest of their life). So, to lower the age at which one gets would most likely result in even more "starter marriages."

 

[Pheonix]

Dating should start at 20, engagements age 23 for women and 25 for men, and marriage closer to 30 when both or either have established their career, have saved enough money and have taken enough time going through whatever counselling , eg anger management, conversation classes, alcoholics anonymous, conflict resolution classes , or other courses they might need.

I hate to say it but anger management, conversation and conflict resolution should have been learned long before someone is thinking of getting married, like maybe by 10. It is supposed to be taught by parents.

The disinterest in their children is the worst thing a parent can do to their children. If a child hasn't learned all that stuff, then an adult has no hope unless they truly want to learn it. Sadly most people go to all these classes to humour or placate their partner, not because they wish to learn. They think there is nothing wrong with the way they are behaving.

 

[antmimi2]

I am a teacher and I applaud your comment Phoenix. We do raise a generation of children and have been ever since this "self esteem" stuff was taught to be the way to teach. I see the boundary-less children in our classrooms. They have no discipline and are not required to have it.
Examples:
Those with parents with no money can just watch their example and depend upon the welfare state when they grow up. Why work?
And teachers years ago could paddle or had principals that could. Now if it looks like we have yelled at them aggressively on a tape we are put in jail for child abuse. We had a teacher in our state that put a child in a closet for time out and went to jail. But the newer schools build these huge storage closets with AC and lights. Big enough to put a few desks and chairs in them. It's a separate room so that they cannot hurt themselves or others and can calm down. Eight years ago, I used a storage closet for a time out room on occasion. Not anymore! Do they want us to send them outside?
Nope that can't be the option. So guess what the option is...
We have to empty our classrooms for the child that is going nuts and let them destroy school property while we watch and say calmly, "Now, Johnny, calm down. You aren't really a bad kid."
Let's face it. We aren't raising adults.
And that may be why we aren't getting married or are getting married and then divorced. No one knows what a good work ethic is anymore. No one knows that our decisions affect every area of our lives (good or bad). It takes discipline and work to keep a marriage together. It takes boundaries. It takes love even when they aren't lovely. A love that isn't an "I love you because you do..." A love that is an "I love you because God gave you to me, even when I don't like you." It takes adults who are trained that their bad behavior results in bad consequences for themselves and others. We have no one out there training anyone. Teachers aren't allowed to and parents don't have the time.

 

[Ancilla]

I am a teacher and I applaud your comment Phoenix. We do raise a generation of children and have been ever since this "self esteem" stuff was taught to be the way to teach. I see the boundary-less children in our classrooms. They have no discipline and are not required to have it.
Examples:
Those with parents with no money can just watch their example and depend upon the welfare state when they grow up. Why work?
And teachers years ago could paddle or had principals that could. Now if it looks like we have yelled at them aggressively on a tape we are put in jail for child abuse. We had a teacher in our state that put a child in a closet for time out and went to jail. But the newer schools build these huge storage closets with AC and lights. Big enough to put a few desks and chairs in them. It's a separate room so that they cannot hurt themselves or others and can calm down. Eight years ago, I used a storage closet for a time out room on occasion. Not anymore! Do they want us to send them outside?
Nope that can't be the option. So guess what the option is...
We have to empty our classrooms for the child that is going nuts and let them destroy school property while we watch and say calmly, "Now, Johnny, calm down. You aren't really a bad kid."
Let's face it. We aren't raising adults.
And that may be why we aren't getting married or are getting married and then divorced. No one knows what a good work ethic is anymore. No one knows that our decisions affect every area of our lives (good or bad). It takes discipline and work to keep a marriage together. It takes boundaries. It takes love even when they aren't lovely. A love that isn't an "I love you because you do..." A love that is an "I love you because God gave you to me, even when I don't like you." It takes adults who are trained that their bad behavior results in bad consequences for themselves and others. We have no one out there training anyone. Teachers aren't allowed to and parents don't have the time.

I hear you. My mom's a teacher and she says the same thing!!! Teaching is subjected to public opinion and that can often go in extremes. It's like the old pendulum swing. I don't believe in corporal punishment because psychologists have found that it's ineffective and damaging in the long run. The problem is that school boards can't just tell teachers not to spank children anymore without replacing it with an effective alternative. I used to work in a pre-school who believed that because spanking was bad for kids therefore all forms of punishment were bad for kids. You know what's bad for kids? Not teaching them that behaviours have consequences! Their discipline policy just focused on preventing behaviour. Well, what if the fire department only focused on fire prevention? I mean praising kids for good behaviour is effective, but no matter how much you do that they're still going to push limits and if you don't have a way to deal with that than that's a bad thing. I don't know, maybe the pre-school where I worked would rather teach the kids that behaviour doesn't have consequences than put a kid in time out and then get sued because the parent claimed the child's been scarred for life.

My mom also complains about the self-esteem thing. Because studies have shown that building children's confidence will make them more successful, we've taken that to the extreme and given kids unrealistic expectations about life. That's why you have talentless kids showing up for American Idol auditions thinking that believing in themselves is the only thing they'll need to impress the judges.

 

[antmimi2]

Bravo Ancilla. I taught a class of kids who were told that they were wonderful. The only problem was, they were in third grade and on a first grade level. They could not pass. It was time to not sugar coat it, but to tell them the truth. I told them that I knew they could pass, but they were far away from working to their potential. This year was going to be a tough year. I constantly would tell them, that's better for what you have been doing, but it's still not where you need to be. I had to be the heavy that year because prior to that, no one had told them... You have to work to earn grades and to earn learning. Those students are now doing very well. Why? Because they learned that working hard is what gets you along in life. Sitting back makes you left behind.
BTW, I don't have a problem with corporal punishment. Dr. Spock who got us away from Corporal Punishment on his death bed was asking something to the effect of, What did I do? We are raising a generation of brats.
Business owners are starting to really complain about the ones we graduate. They don't believe they have to do anything to earn money. They should be able to show up 20 minutes late. Sit on their behinds and smile and get paid. After all, they got awards for just showing up in the classrooms.