If you don't have money...

[Roh_Chris]

If people do not have any money, they will not be missed. I say this with a grain of disdain, as should be expected from all of us. The society as it is only seeks self success and I think that is wrong on every level. Not only will a person that has no money be destitute of necessity in today's society, they will be persecuted beyond human nature, such as told they are a burden.

Maybe some of you say "get a job". What if the person is incapable of having a job, such as being disabled or going through a rough patch and needing forgiveness. Is it our duty to condemn them instead of help? Now I'm aware that many have set there sites on harming others for their own gain. Going as far as stealing and con'ing other's out of hard earned wages, and that has enforced the laws to be strict, not only on the criminals though, on innocent folks, just trying to get by. The laws should not be against honest folk's just trying to get by. An example of innocent people paying for the corruptness of few is the airport security. It never used to be burdensome to the extent it is now after the Sept. 11 attacks. None of us did that, it was due to murders that we now have to be scrutinized before boarding an aircraft.

I completely understand your point. In an ideal world, virtues like honesty, sincerity, talent and hard-work ought to be rewarded. Such people are meant to earn more and more and enjoy the fruits of their work while the ones who don't have these virtues ought to become poorer and poorer. But this is not an ideal world. Far from it. In this world, people get rich through corruption, greed, nepotism and power. It is a world where people stake their claim to riches by virtue of their birth, i.e. language, caste, creed, religion, nationality, race, etc.

In such perilous times, we ought to be careful to whom we give charity. The word charity has been thrown around so much that it has lost its sanctity now. Today charity is the pretext under which innocents are conned, under which the parasites feed off their hosts, under which some willfully choose to be poor so that they could live for free and under which those who are rich by their virtues are abused and condemned. I can give you one example from the country I live in.

Begging is a common sight in most metros. You would find such beggars at busy traffic signals, at shopping districts, outside churches/temples/mosques and outside theatres. While maybe 5% of these beggars are unfortunate, the rest of them choose to be that way because they don't want to work. They know that they can earn much more by begging for a living. And what's more, they get a free home, free electricity, free appliances and rationed free. Though these beggars are rehabilitated and given free homes, they rent those homes and come back to the streets. Unbelievable, isn't it?

Such instances have taught me two lessons - 1) never give anything for free to people who do not deserve it, and 2) to the extent possible, avoid giving monetary help to people in need. I would never reject a person who has fallen into hard times. But at the same time, I would be careful of who I help because I don't want to give it to somebody who does not deserve it. You could criticize me for saying this, but I have found some parts in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged which resound with my philosophy.

 

[biscuit]

"For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out" (1 Timothy 6:7)

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

We will be remembered by the ones who matter. And if they don't matter to us, and don't remember us, who cares? We will have moved on to a better place and will have no sadness over what came before.

 

[Lynx]

Roh_Chris: About that book... I heard an atheist say that reading Atlas Shrugged was really hard for him because he found himself agreeing with 95% of what Ayn Rand said, right up to the part about "So in conclusion, nothing matters and we should all be a jerk to everyone."

Back to the original thesis of this thread: Fortunately we live in a capitalist society. I say fortunately because it beats the alternatives here on this earth. The ideal society would actually be a communist one. WAIT, DON'T STONE ME!!! I said the ideal society, but it won't work here on earth because humans are not perfect. Communism is great on paper but it doesn't work in reality because there is no way to prevent people from taking advantage of it. But has it occurred to anyone that communism - on paper - sounds a lot like what we all dream of?

Of course it would only work with christians, and it would only work in Heaven.

 

[yesyoushould]

1 Corinthians 3:21-23
Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

Acts 20:35
"I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus,how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive."

Acts 24:14
"But this I confess unto thee,that after the way which they call heresy,so worship I the God of my fathers,believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

Romans 8:28
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

 

[yesyoushould]

The ideal society would actually be a communist one. WAIT, DON'T STONE ME!!! I said the ideal society, but it won't work here on earth because humans are not perfect. Communism is great on paper but it doesn't work in reality because there is no way to prevent people from taking advantage of it. But has it occurred to anyone that communism - on paper - sounds a lot like what we all dream of?

Of course it would only work with christians, and it would only work in Heaven.

You are suggesting communism looks "good" on paper. I'm saying only God works. "...Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth,as it is in heaven." Matthew 6:10

 

[Lynx]

Er... that's basically what I said.

 

[Roh_Chris]

Roh_Chris: About that book... I heard an atheist say that reading Atlas Shrugged was really hard for him because he found himself agreeing with 95% of what Ayn Rand said, right up to the part about "So in conclusion, nothing matters and we should all be a jerk to everyone."

Back to the original thesis of this thread: Fortunately we live in a capitalist society. I say fortunately because it beats the alternatives here on this earth. The ideal society would actually be a communist one. WAIT, DON'T STONE ME!!! I said the ideal society, but it won't work here on earth because humans are not perfect. Communism is great on paper but it doesn't work in reality because there is no way to prevent people from taking advantage of it. But has it occurred to anyone that communism - on paper - sounds a lot like what we all dream of?

Of course it would only work with christians, and it would only work in Heaven.

I wanna hear you out. Why do you say communism would work in theory? The way I see it only capitalism would work. You pay for what you buy. Isn't that how the Bible also teaches? Even David practiced it when he bought the field after the plague. Anyway, it does not matter. God's kingdom is the only successful model.

 

[Lynx]

Roh_Chris: Have you ever looked into what communism is? It's not a monolithic government bent on taking over the world. It's actually quite attractive in theory. But it would never, ever work in this world, and that's why we got a monolithic government bent on taking over the world when they tried it.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Work harder...God helps those who help themselves

 

[watty]

On earth, on earth, MONEY is POWER. A failure to understand that is just pure foolishness. If I pass out flyers saying that Jim the homeless minister of God will be speaking Sunday at the stadium, free admission. What do you figure the turnout would be? Answer this question honestly within your own mind of you attending. If I put out a flyer saying the billionaire Joe Whoever will be speaking at the stadium on Sunday and give no topic to be spoken of, admission is $25.00 how many will fail to attend church on Sunday to hear what Joe Whoever has to say. The reason they will attend is Joe Whoever might be talking about how they too can become billionaires like he is. Satan's reasons to destroy people:
1. for their money
2. their faith in God
3. Leading people to God
Do some research on those religions who have the highest net worth. Research and see which religion has the highest membership of rich people. Yes, we all need money to live. What we must never lose sight of is money is a tool and you are the controller of the tool in what work it does. If you allow the tool to control you, you have lost and are lost.

 

[AHealingPen]

Money is only important in this life. Citizens of Heaven have no need for cash or a credit card. The feeling of importance that everyone seeks is simply the look the LORD ALMIGHTY gives when he sees you coming home. The look in his eyes at you. That is the importance that we all seek and hope to find one day. That is priceless and is the longing we all yearn here on earth. That feeling of "false acceptance" is what "earthly money and riches" does to people who do not know God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. You can clearly see it when their money dries up, or they loose things they worked all their life worshipping - they kill themselves, they start to act out and take violently that which they want from others who have it. Jesus said, give even to your enemy - as you know the LORD ALMIGHTY is your provider of everything.

I have heard that the prophet Mohamad gave everything he had everyday to everyone he came in contact before he laid down each night to go to sleep. Because his faith was so strong in the LORD that he knew in his heart that every need he had would be taken care of the following day if he awoke the following morning. And if by chance he did die in his sleep, the last thing he would have done that day was show an act of love to his neighbor. Because all he had was settled that day before including all of his debts and even through his death he would have left this earth owing no man anything. Love is an action word - and therefore his actions - giving everything he had - was a display of loving his neighbor. In Jesus Name. Amen.

 

[watty]

Money is only important in this life. Citizens of Heaven have no need for cash or a credit card. The feeling of importance that everyone seeks is simply the look the LORD ALMIGHTY gives when he sees you coming home. The look in his eyes at you. That is the importance that we all seek and hope to find one day. That is priceless and is the longing we all yearn here on earth. That feeling of "false acceptance" is what "earthly money and riches" does to people who do not know God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. You can clearly see it when their money dries up, or they loose things they worked all their life worshipping - they kill themselves, they start to act out and take violently that which they want from others who have it. Jesus said, give even to your enemy - as you know the LORD ALMIGHTY is your provider of everything.

I have heard that the prophet Mohamad gave everything he had everyday to everyone he came in contact before he laid down each night to go to sleep. Because his faith was so strong in the LORD that he knew in his heart that every need he had would be taken care of the following day if he awoke the following morning. And if by chance he did die in his sleep, the last thing he would have done that day was show an act of love to his neighbor. Because all he had was settled that day before including all of his debts and even through his death he would have left this earth owing no man anything. Love is an action word - and therefore his actions - giving everything he had - was a display of loving his neighbor. In Jesus Name. Amen.

How did the prophet Mohamed acquire anything to give away? Did he have a job? Did he have a family to support? We all can't do the same things as our lives have different paths. I read online a couple of weeks ago about a pastor, Pastor Franck Kabele, who was faith filled and wanted to demonstrate how strong his faith was to his church members. The pastor took his congregation to a beach and tried to walk on water and drowned right in front of the whole congregation. Here is the link for the story Nigerian Pastor Tries to Walk on Water Like Jesus, Then Drowns in Front of His Congregation | Ghana News | Breaking News | Celebrity News and Gossip | African News Listen to the Holy Spirit and not Satan.

 

[AHealingPen]

Watty,

The Prophet Mohamad was a merchant and he first worked as a sheep shepherd when he was young. Then submitted to Quraysh merchndise trips when he grew up and later did work as we know - as a Judge for this community. So did have a means to support himself and his family. Yes, he did have a family five children and one was a son, who died the other were all girls.

My reply was not to insinuate that we should all do like he did and give away everything we have - my message was - the amount of FAITH he had in GOD - to be able to do that everyday is the message here. It's about FAITH not the person and his actions.

It is very sad, to see that a Pastor drowned because of his pride - there would have been no reason to demonstrate how strong his faith was to any man. Including his congregation.

Faith should only be put in GOD with all matters. Jesus even says, in Proverbs 3:5 NIV - "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;" Meaning from the dictionary regarding: Faith

• 1.
  complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"this restores one's faith in politicians"[/COLOR]
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]trust, belief, confidence, conviction; More
  
  
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"][/TD]
  [TD][/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  
  
• 2.
  strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]religion, church, sect, denomination, (religious) persuasion, (religious) belief, ideology, creed,teaching, doctrine"she gave her life for her faith"
  
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  

The word here is TRUST - Trust in the Lord for all things. It even goes on to state strong belief in God - the words of God - based on a spiritual apprehension rather that "PROOF" Maybe if he had a clearer understanding of the Word he was preaching this tragedy would not have happened. A leader of a congregation needs not to show proof of his faith to anyone as his job is to FEED THE FLOCK not to walk on water. Clearly he was being mislead and it's a shame. I am sorry to read that as it shows me that the lack of understanding and wisdom was missing in his life as it related to his true calling to serve the Lord.

 

[AHealingPen]

Watty,

I agree with you money is power here on earth - earthly power that is and every one of us know that even the children in our lives today. Of course if you use the words in your flyer Billionaire and charge an admission - people would be lining up around the corner as they think it will be something there to learn about acquiring money and if it was on Sunday - maybe some would go instead of Church. But, what I want to add is Satan is after destroying lives. lWhich includes your money but, that's not all. His main objective here is only destroying so his tools are manipulation, confusion, doubt and lies.

He knows man wants/needs money and he uses that as a tool to manipulate, make people covet and some. But, having an abundance of money in the Church has nothing to do with him and what he's about. Because the money that has come to the church is for the flock and if it comes through rich people within the church so what, God moved their hearts to give so that there may be meat in his house for the flock. The Lord says, judge the Church by the fruit it bears and the Church is suppose to be a place of peace, to get help, to get guidance, food, shelter, and anything else you and your family may need. So in order for it to do so, it has to be full and running over with money and resources as it takes money in this life to make things happen. The Church is supposed to have outreach programs, and training, feeding the homeless, helping people find jobs, counseling to families and children, and some - whatever the needs of the flock are - money is needed to help pay for these things. Jesus had Matthew there who was a wiz with money and taxes. Jesus had lots of resources and money - he never lacked and knew how to handle lots of money.

 

[watty]

AHealPen, You have replied in a very God way and I appreciate that. It was not pride that caused him to test his faith, it was a non understanding of his calling. You brought that point forward yourself. His calling was to serve the Lord as a minister of his Word and not as a magician. Great reply!!!!!!!

 

[yesyoushould]

Money is only important in this life.

Money isn't actually ever important.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Sorry I misjudged this thread. I thots u wuz trollin.

 

[yesyoushould]

Watty,

The Prophet Mohamad .

Cutting off the heads of those he claimed as infidels, is the sign of an anti-Christ. "...and they will think they do God service by killing...". Rejecting Christs' message of loving one another and to love, instead of kill, is a sign of a false teacher.

 

[yesyoushould]

Sorry I misjudged this thread. I thots u wuz trollin.

I'm sure only the evil introduced the term "trolling" as a means to run scared from the truth.